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THE

PREP ACE-

Readers,

"f/ \Fyou would he truly informed of the Cafe bftheNoncMfor-

^ niiflsy and the meaning of this Delete,\ you mttft know

I. That the meet Nonconformifis of this age take not up their

Judgment in truflfrom anypartyaf men, and therefore take not

thentfelves olliged to he for t>/* agaiafl any thing, becaufemen

werefo that were called Nonconformifis her^^fbre ' As the Scr /-

pture is their Rule and thjeflivc fieligi^^ Jk^fhey fevennce the

judgment of the Primitive Church ahove tl>£ judgment efanypar^

ty ; And indeed are fo far againfl Sedls and Parties^ as Jucb,

as t/jat their judgment is that the Church wiU never he well re-

floredtc deftreable Concord, tillour Vnicn be Catholick, upon the

terms that Chrifl appointed, and which all good Chriflians have

agreed in, and may a free in.

2. That what the meer Nonconformifis of this age defired for Concord and Reformation, as to the old Liturgy and Conformity, ishefi known by their common Propofals 16160, nUtl^e Miuiflers iffLonAon being by Mr. Calamy, Mr.hSk and Dr^Ktytioids, invited to Sion-Colledg freely to give their judgments : who offered nothing for Church-Government but Bijhop UiherV Primitive form, and nothing for Worfhip but the Reforming of the Liturgy, and the free 'ufe of additional formes: Their exceptions againflpaffages in the Liturqy being not thought^ abfolutely Jtecef-fary to Communion. And itmufl be rementbred that they offered then, I. A Defence of thofe Exceptions, x, A Reformed Liturgy or Additions, 3. A Petition for Peace and preventing Schifm, to the Bifhops^ which they never ^nfw^red^to this day, that we know of ,, ! r.V . .

3. Ten muft knyvo that the Change of the Litttrgj onpretenfe

The Preface.

tfeafingus, andthe ABof Vniformity^ have made Conformity novo quite another thin^ than it was before, and to us far more in-t oiler able \ I ampafl douhtthat Ri. Hooker, Bifh^ Biifon, Eifh. Ufher and fuch others were th'e^now alive would he Nonconform mifts^ yea, I can prove it, as well as I can prwe^ that they were honeft men, and would hold to what they wrote.

4. Tou mujl know that we had never leave to give our Reaf&ns againft the New Conformity \ nor allowed to he once heard fpeak .

for our felvesy before about two thoufand M'miflers wereJUepced^ when our Judicatures will hear a fingle MalefaSior, Wthave Seen filent about eighteen years, while men have caWd to us [What is it that you would have ?] while they would not give us leave to teUthem.

5. And when thePrefs was fomewhat open, they fpread it a-Sroadthat [our filencenow plainl)r ihewed, that we had no-thing to fay, but kept up a Scnifm againft our own Con-fciences;] '^v -* ,

^ At lafl, though my Friends had longtold me that ourXX^Vf^s mufi be our beft Defence, and that our Accufers wo'uld hut he inflamed-hy an Apology, and could net endure to hear our Reafons, I <durfl forbear no longer, but yet ventured no farther than to write n hare Narrative of the Matter of our Nonconformity, lefl ar-^ttingjhould exafperate: But that very naming of the things which vx>e deny^ hath much difpleafed th'em that differ from us, fi^ppofjng ^hatitimplyethanaccufationofthem, which I renounced.

■7. The Reader then that will underfiand our Cafe, muflnot iookio fiwdithere^ hut he at the labour to read what is already written of it^ wJmh we mufi not repeat asvft as any wiS write a-. ^ainfius-; that ^s^ i: In the faid'unanjwered writings of 1661, ^ /» th^Kings. PofJI^rationcvncerningEccleflafticai Affairs,for ^hjch tie honaon Miniflers fubfcribea and printed a Thankfgi-^ing' 3- In rryfirfl T lea for Peace, deferibing our Nonconformity, ^ In the Defence of it agninft Mr.Ch.Qyny's Anfwer. 5. In V mfy-fecond-Ploafor Peace, defer ibing our Judgment ofGovernment and Obedience, and what our Nonconformity is not, and diners 0-ther pomts, 6, 'In my True and only way of Univerlal Gonr

cord.

The Preface. •

cord, on which the Churches mufl agree y if ever. 7. fn my Moral Prognollication. 8. In my Abridgment of Church-Hiflory oj Bi-Jhops and Councils, Jheiving what hath divided the Churches heretofore.

8. Tou mufl know that I write not to jufiifie every man that is called a Nonconformijl, but to give an Anjiver to the publick Ac-cifation of my Jelf and a Reajon of the Preaching of the meer Ni>»conformrjh.

9. But that the fuller Juftification of our Preaching is intended in an&tl^er Treatife, called Their Apology, or Third Plea for Peace.

II. And as to theprofecution of the debate with this Reverend Dotlor, it is not likely that IJhall trouble him with arn Rejoinder ^ he Reply, unlcfs he will take another courfe, andfirfl explain cur terms, and ft ate the ^u:ft ion to be difputed. Much lefs Jhal/1 contend with any fidftitute whofl:all avoid the way of Love and Re a-fon, which from the DoHor I may esptB.

There is one fort of D if put ants that are too ^rong for me, Thofethat ha\'e a better Caufe; Truth will overcome: Light will appear through narrow cranies. Ofthefe I fhall be glad to be overcome: I prof efl,that to my know ledg,I never managed a Drf-pute, in which I trufled not to the Geodnefs of my Caufe, more than to wtt or words or humane advantage. ^^

But there are above twenty forts of other Difputants, too hard ,. for me to overcome. i

1. Thofe that willVifpute before they agree of the fenfe of their '' ^ terms or ft ate the queftion, and then quarrel for not being under flood. ^^^ ^-

2. Thofe that will not read oranfwer ourfuUefi Defence aire a /? dywrnten, hutTookTJhouITffillbT^new.^rf-^ %<^-m n cn^ C<y>^^

J. Vniverfallifts, that can prove me to Is an Afs, becaafi^ I am an Animal.

4. Equivocaters, that can prove me a Separatill beca ufe I ft n ot ^ ^^ ip fft their feet, or read not in their Book or with their Speciacles. -^ *

5". A Pope that taketh it for a Herefie or Crime to queftion his word, orfuppofe him fallible,

^. A

The Preface

6* A proud meer Grammarian^ who can confute Ariftotle and the School-men with a/corn, and taketh it for a difgrace to have any more Logick thanfimple terms ; or taketh Rhetorickfor the purefi fruit of Reafon,

7. A Nominal, who contraSieth all his Syllogifms intojimple terms of art^ and can confute any Adverfary, by calling him a Fool, or a Rojue, or a Heretick, or a Schifmatick,

8. One rbat ftandeth fo high that he thinks men below himtt . be little things like walking Grows*

9. A one-eyed man that can fee nothing but on his own fide,

10. A galled perfon that Jmarteth if the wind blow on him: And a melancholly man that thinketh that all that you think and

fay is againfl him, and would kill him»

11. I cannot difput e againfl Qanons and Organs, that fpeak fo loud that none can be heard but themfelves. Nor againfl ring-

ingBells, that have loud tongues and no ears: and go on, on, on, and take no heed to what is anfwi^red*

12. Nor againftfuch asl^di. 48.4. Iron is too fl iff for me to low, and lean make no impreffion upon brafs*

ij. Norcan I dealwith fuch as are defcribed, Pial. 7.4, 6, 7, Such an Oven hath too wide a mouth and too hot a breath for me to contend with. A^ C^ J t J 4- Nor fuch as Pfal 5-9. 7. and 5*5'. 21. that fpeak fwords, ^^^^^ y or dijpHt ewirfj hands and not with tongues: and fetch their ar-7^ ^ L '^h^^umentsfrom the ^rifon, or the Lyons, and fpeak not to the -^■yf^KSr poi^ar, but to the fie (h and bones. Nor fuch as 2. Sam. X'^.6. Ifk. /^ % 7. 4. Mic.7- 4. Thorns and Bryers fpeak too feelingly, Iflmufi difpute with flings, I had rather it were with Bees that wiUre-compenceme, than with Wafps or Hornets. ♦ i<f, I am too weak for men over valient- that can venture upon any thing, and eaftly prove that the Snow is black,

16. And my voice is too low for the dead and deaf and fieePy and drunken, that when Ihavefpoken know not what Ifaid.

ly. I am loath to enter the Lifls with thofe Women that never want time^ or heat, or words, and feldom foul ones, [Nam fl cum Hercore certo, vinco feu vincor, Temper ego maculon]

The Preface,

18. f^tf dm / alleffdeal with a CnwilQr Mukitude, where they follow the Leader, and yy^ Away with liim, vohen few know whom or what they are againjl. '

19. Nor yet with Lads that are too quick for me, and value Mercury above Gold, that have quick Trade but little jlock, and think age and experience to be the Characters of dull declining fVits.

20. And I am too weak to difpute a man out of Love with his Life, or his Pleafure, Wealth or Honour. All Church-Hijiory tells me how rarely any ever fcrupled the Lawfulnefs of being made P9pe or Patriarch, or hath been argued out of a Bijhoprick or Dominion. I am not flrong enough to anfwer an hundred pound a year ^ much lefs a thoufand {though Grace and Confcience

21. But though all this be not the Cafe of the Reverend DoHor, yet one advantage ( though uncertain) he hath: fie is like to over-live me, and Jo may have the lafl: word ; And that is a certain f^i^ory with the fequaeious multitude. But yet Truth will triumph, and fraud will vanijh, and fecret things Jhall he brought to light, and that which is crookned by the Judgment of men fhallhefet ^(irait by the infallible final judgment.

'* ^' ' * •'^ Vy^"^^

^fgrz

>^

Vor the Reverend DoSor Stillingflcct^ Dean of St;. Pauls*

A

Reverend Sir^ . i . .

S you have told the Magiftrates and the World what you think of mc as guilty of finfiil Separation, 1 have reafon to hope that you will not deny me your help for my own convidion: For it con-cerneth no man fo nearly to know my Hn as my felf: and being fo near my day of Judgment, I were a mofl; inexcufable wretch if I were nnwillingto know it. You knew their capacity it's like, for whom you Preachtand wrote-, but I, that bell know my own, finding it im-poflible to underftand you and four accufation without further help, prcfumeto intrcat your fpeedy Anfwer to thefe Queftions,which arc the ftop of my Convidion.

I. Q^ I entreat you to tell me more plainly, x^hkh is the eonftitittive RegefJt fart ef a National Chnrch? Whether the King, or a Sacerdotal Head ? For that you know,that a Church as well as a Kingdom, is efTentiated by apars regens^ and parsfubdita^ I long ago found in your Jrenicon. I have opened the ftate of the Qaeftion in my firft Plea^Page 251, 252, &c. Of which I crave your Solution : For to hear of [One Heady'] and not know who it is, is no fatisfadion to me.

II. Q;^ I intreat youtotellme more plainly what the ZPne RnU2 ^ ' meant in your Text was, which was then extant, and all that had

■' ' * attained to be true C.hriftians were then and are now to agree in and ^ walk by. For I perceive yoii^uly judge that it%^s fonl^what then

1 known to them ^ anc^ret in your application one would think you

', meant fome late humaneCLaws. i "^ ■ ''

* .1 ' » Wasit;a«DivineRuleora Humale? IfHiimane, how toknowit.% • ' I 111. (i, I befeech you tell me plainly, wlu.'Jfs the definition or for. ' ^ •"* wal reafon of that {infulfeparation which you mention as mine. For . - * 1 cannot perceive.it by your. Book : unlefs you take;?^-f4c^>/^tt'/V/ro«f the Magi fir ate s Leave ^ and Worlhiping ina manner different from • that appointed By Law,-^'Sforbiden, to belt* But I fuppofe you >|( «■ ta^c not allDifobedicnceto be Separation, nor all different Modes of Worrtiip * I would fain knew what you merfi)^ %

"■' ^ • IV. Q:_l intreat you tell nkpifeinly, what yoii would have the many i. ^^s fcore thoufands do on the Lords days, whcJicannot hear in the Pari(h Churches ? For the matter of Fad is paft difpute, that in yoiii^arifh of St. j^ndrews, Sepu'chres^CiUsfCriplegatCj Cil^ itf^he Fields^*Mar^

tins.

tinSy Clements and many others, there areinfome loooo, in fome 2CO00, in fome 30000, in feme, the Parifhoners fay, 60000 Inhabitants more than can come into the Church and hear the Minifters Voices which feldom can be heard by more than jooo or 4000. Ho^ would you have all thefe fcore thoufands fpendthe Lordsday ?

V. Q. Are you not confcious that the truepaftoral Office is not Performed in your own Parifh to the third part of the people according to their need, and Panb example A^. 20. by reafon of the number of them ? Prudent peaceable Men of your Parilh tell me, that not one of five of their Neighbours ever nfe to go to any Church j And out of the Church never here a word from the Paftor, unlefs at the Baptizing of a Child ; but live like Heathens without any Publick WorfliipofGod : And the worft men that moft need help leaft de-fire it, and therefore eafilieft take the excufe that at the Parifh Church there is no room, and if they go to others they are called Saparatifts*, but^iot if they play, work or drink at home.

VI, Qi 1 am confident you know the need of many Curates in your own Parifli •, f for my Part, I profefs, 1 am fo far from thinking my fclf capable ofaBifliops work, that I would not take many 1000./. a Year to take the Paftoral Charge of your Parifh without many Afii-ftants (feeing thatyouand \) as! fee by your Treat, of Satisfaction, and other Dodrinal Books) do Preach the fame Dodrin, and I perform but the Part of a Curate or Afllflant to you for nothing, Why think you that it is worfe than that fo many be untaught ? ^

VII.Q.Poyounot think that culpably to alienate an Ordained Minifter, Vowed to the Sacred Office, is for worfe facriledge than to ft^^l Church Plate or moneys And that it muft needs be fo culpable, either in our felves for not Conforming, or forceafing our works, or elfe in thofe that hinder us.

Vill. Qi. What then is it that you would have us do, when after our belt endeavours we are no more able to fee the Lawfulnefs of Conforming or forfaking our Calling, than of many great notorious fins?

iX.QJDo you think that for qualification and number there are fo many better than the filenced Minifters in the Land, as may fo far fupply the Peoples wants, as that 2000 fuch as we may better be fpa-red, than employed, unlefs we can Conform /

X. Q^Are none of our Hearers more competent Judge/ then their Accufers, what profiteth their own Souls ? And if they are, what is the great harm that fuch as 1 do that weighs down the Peoples profit? while all your Power is for edification, and all your Churches that I come in are full/

XI. Qi. What is it in us that warranteth a humble Conformift fo

B thiiik.

lo A Letter to Dr, Stillingrieet.

think, that his Minifterial duty is fo much better than oars, that in comparifon of his Miniftry, ours is unncceflary and we unfulferableia the Land : Is it i^noratxe or our wckedmfs that makes tat difference fo great ? I have ftudied many years longer than you, though perhaps with lefs advantage: We know nothing in the world that 7ft prefer before the pleafipg of God and edifying his Church? Though you excel us, do all others fo? My m.aniLg is, w^r.id you have none tolerated in Englandth^t^rc as i^n^rant :\nd^% had m I^Confideratis tonpderandis. Doth bare Conforming make all this difference /*

Xn.^QJ\nd as I ask all thefe QicHions for my felf (and earneftly intrcatyour Anfwer^ pardon me while in true love to you, I put this Quefliontoyou for your felf; Whether doe you think, if you lived in the pain, and as near the Grave as I do, and by the fentcnce of death had the lively apprehenfions of your account, Ihonid you not tremble to think of becoming a Preacher againft our preaching, and juftify-ing or owning the filencing and ruining offo many hundred devoted ' Minifters of Chrift, who are no worfe, and for no worfe Caufe? Such as truly defire to ferve God as faithfully and diligently as your felf, and with as little refped to preferment, riches, applaufe, or any worldly end ? And whether you will never wifh that you had never' put your hand to fuch a work, as to argue with the Magiftrate and harden others againft the enduring offuch Mens labours even on the hard terms that we willingly perform them.

Sir, Many importune me to publifh an Anfwer to your Sermon : I. As to my felf, 1 am more concerned to crave your helpfbr my convidion, if I live in fin at fo dear a rate, even to my flefh: 2. And as to you, you have defervedfo well of this Land, efpeciallyfor lb ftoBtly oppofing Popery at fuch a time, and are fo much loved and valued by us all, that I would take the leaft provoking way, as know- •' ing what contention and exafperation tendeth to, and how glad the Psq^ifts will be to turn your Pen from themfclves, and leave you and fuch as I together in afruitkfs conilid : waiting your Anfwer, I reft-

T«Hr unworthyfiRoW'ServMnt^ Mff 26. Bi. Baxter.

XV.

Dr. Stillingfleet's Anfmr to Mr. Baxter's Letter.

S I R,

I Lately received a Letter from you, whereinyen ccmplain ofrny expfmg §• I. yoH to the Magijlrates and the world, as entguilty of jinfHll Separati^ #», vehertMS I never mentioned ycnr ftame vrhen I Preached, and when I Printed the Sermon, I have quoted it fever at times againfi Seperatiort. K, 2» But if your meaning he, that yoHthink^your felf concerned in thofe pro-Hifes which I charge with that guilt, I flwuld have been very glad to J. ., have found in your Letter an Anfwer to thofe Reafons in my Sermon which moved me to judg as I then did, and flill do concerning them. Which in my opinion had been afar more likely way for your Convi^ion, which youfeem to dcfire in your Letter, than my jinfwering thofe Queries you propofe ; many ofwhtch do very little relate to the matter in debate between w, What you mean by knowing their capacity for whom I Freached and wrote, 1 am not wilUng to underfland } but if I have a?}y, the fngle Quejiion be y .

twcenyouand me, as to this matter, is. Whether the upholding Separate §. 4.^^ Meetings for Divine Worpjip, where the DoElrine eflabltfljed, and thefub- |^ ^^ t \ ftantial parts of Worship are acknowledged to be agreable to the Word of Cod, be a fmfulfeparation, or not ?

By feperate Meetings I mean fuch aspre-tendto apurerway ofWorflnp, and are kspt nf «» oppofition to the legal eflahlifiment of Religion among tu, AndnowSiry I pray conjider,

Firft ^To what purpoje I Jlwuld refolve the Queries you make concerning $• 7«]" our great Parij\ies,fince,

1. The feperate Meetings are kept up in the City, andadjoyning Places, J. 8. as Hackny, Newington, &q, without any regard to the greatnefs of Fari^ies, or capacity of Churches.

2. Tou cannot but kjtow,that the People do not go tothem,brcaufe they i' ^. cannot find room in Churches, but becaufe they look upon the WorJInp of Codas purer there, than in our Parochial Churches, and moji of thofe ' who frequent them, would not come to the puhlickJWorJhip, were our Chur. j ches never fo great, or our Parifljes never fo fmall.

I The Preaching in them is forbidden by Law, which the greatnefs or c -^ fmalinefs cf our Parijhes doth not make more or lejs lawful to be done ; un^ r^ lefs thofe who preach in them do Conform to the Laws eflablifud; and fo [grant you, tije Tabernacle in St. Martin's Parifij, is now a help to tbe

B 2 P4.

ti Dr. StiWingdQCt's Anfwer,

^ Parijli-Chnrch, veh'tchbeforeveas a fep/trate Meetwg. And 1 wondef m

' P erf on of yonr f^g-^city jhould thir>\^ to fat tj fie yourfelf, or others y by fuck

' JJf£^^ evajrorif dsthefey vohiciffcftrce any of my Auditors or Readens^ hovp

mean fee-ver their capacities rverey but could difcerh the rvealmefsyf them.

5. 12. Secondly^ Others of your ^teries relate to thy^J^j^ltftcattoAr and hh/M'

her of the eje^ed Minifiers, andcompxrvig their Gif s with Ours.

But what is all this to the bufinefs of Si par at ion ? unlefs yon fuppofe thdt ^ the Gofpel is not preached by Vs ; or whether it be or noty that you are bound to preach it fltll^ and fo much feems to be implied in your 7th ^ueflion^WL. That it is a Sacriledge culpably to alienate an Ordained Minijicr Vowed fo the facred Of^ce. . And becaufe this comes nearefi to the matter in htwd^ and feems very much to JHck^vpith you, I fliall defrf you to refdlve thefe J^itries.

I. Whether it be net in the power of thofe who give OrMrs in a Chrifli-^ **^f» Church to limit anA fufpend the Exercife of the Mmijierial Funtiion ■ vpitheut Sacriledge ? If jwtf how could the Chrijlian Church in its befl ard furefl times^ pretend to reduce Bijlwps and Presbyters to a Lay-Communion? of which you may read fo ofteninSt.CypnaTis Efifiles. Nay what Church is there to be named^ tlut doth not affumg this power toitfelf with-9Mt the leajl fuffition of Sacr Hedge ? And it would he very fir ange^ that this Notion of Sacriledge Jhould never be underjlood before. C. IJ 2. Whether ChriflianA^agifirates may not juflly reflrain thofe Miniflirs from Preachings who, after the experience af former Troubles^ dorcft^fe to renounce thofe Principles which they judge do naturally tend to involve us again in the like Troubles ?. .^Sy_

^ %. To what purpoft any fuch Authority is either in Church or Staict if

thofe who are iegatyfilenced may go on to preach publickly in oppofition to ' the eflablifl}ed Laws ', only on fuppofition that they were wrongfully ejeSled f 5,1^ This J am certain is contrary to the DoSlrine of all the Nonconfermifis of former times^ as you may fee in the Book^ puhli[l]edin their Name by Mr. flathband,y4D. 1644.P.41. (be fides wioat you may find in my Sermon^ IP' 5 J- only the Teflimony of Vr. GougQought tobecorreHedthus, p. 51?, 514.) Their words ares if a guiltle^ Perfon put out of his Charge by the Churches Authority.may yet continue in it,what proceedings can /T there be againfl: guilty perfons who in their own conceit are always '' guiltiefs, or will at leafl: pretend fo to be *, feeing they alfo will be always ready to objeft againfl the Churches judgment, that they are ^ called of God, and may nottherefoie give over the execution of their Miniftry at the Will of Man. $.15. 4. Whether there be the fame obligation now lying upon Miniflers to ^ r preach the Gofpel^ in a Nation where the Gofpel is confeffed to be truly \ f re ache d^ when they are forbidden to do ithy the Laws of the Land \ as there I <was upon the Apoffles to preach itfirfi to th£ World, notwithflanSng the pro-"^ ihihitiofls of men? The

The diffarity feems fy ohvioHS to me^ that I could hxrdly believe men of nnderjtandtng woutdalit(^ethej4peJflei'wordstojnfrt(U their frefent prn-Qtfes^ijaHlf'ot fo often feen it done. But that the old Non-c»formifts did truly underfi^ndthe dtfyfar^ty qfy^he. ca/c^ou mnyfee-.itin j ifffiatJces in the former Book ^ rvh/ch^/jhull refer y^t to^ \ *^' ' '

But you askj>ne matterial^^ejhon in behafofthe People^ viz. Are none §. 16. 'r of our Hearers more competent Judgts than their Accufers vfhat proflteth their own Souls ? And is this inyour judgmevt^ a tolerable Plea fori^Sepa-r-ation ? Then there can he nofuch thing as an uvjnj}if,able or finfut fepa-ration ^fince the People are left to be their ownjudges For where was anyfepX' /^'' > ration made but uponfuch a pretence ? And upon this ground the people may leave you to morrow,and go to Do^or O. and le^ve him nextweeh, and go to the Anabaptifts, 4;;^/r<7w them to the Qiiakers *,' and jlillplead that iXs") th:y are morecompetent Judges than their Accufers^ what proflteth their «wn fouls ? No one would thifikby fnch J^cjlioris as thefe^that ever you had written fo much againj} Separation^andfpokenfo freely efthe mifchiefofit. $. 17. Thus I havepickf ont thofe Jliieylcs^which come nearejl to the matter of Se-paration^andgiven a fuffcicnt Anfwcr to them. But as to the othir remain^ ing^ concerning the conftitucnt regent part of a National Church -^ the One Rule mentioned by the ApoJlle\and whither you or I have fiudied longer or to better pur pofe^ J have incivility paffed them over^as no more relating to c .0 our bufi^rfs,than determining the Principle of Individuation is^to the l^ep. ingofth" fixth Commandment. And lam refolved in debates of this nature not to be drawn off by any by-Qjieries from the main thing in Controverjk. ^ 1 do not prefsyoit to anyfpeedy Anfwer^but I defire you rather to weigh and confdcr things impartially^ than to give too hafy a Reply. 1 am neither fond ofControverJic,nor can I defert fo jufl and clear a Caufe as I take this again/} Sepparation to be '•, from which IJljall not be moved by the noife dnd cenfures of weak and injudicious people^who Ifind{as you formerly obferved) can leafl endure to be touched in this matter. If you pleafe at your leafure to ret urn an Anfwer to this paper, it fljall be thankfully received by ^

SIR,

Your faithful Friend and Servant

EDWARD STJLLJNGFLEET,

My fuddaln removal into the Country upon the receipt of yourx, fliufl: excufe my fending this no fooncr.

A %efly to "Dr. Stillingflcet's Letter*^ being the fum of our Qontroverjie.

S- !• T Confefsl was fo well afiuredofthe Divine Obligations which % lay on me, to do thefe things which you judge my fin, that my expedations from your return were very low: But yet I thought it my duty to try whether you had more than I knew of to fay for my Convi(!l;ion, before I venturM on a Defence : But your refufal ^ to convince and fatisfie me, incrcafeth my confidence that it is my great Duty which you account my Sin.

§. 2. Did you not write to be underftood ? Or muft / only not un-deltandyou-, mufti trouble the Reader by gathering all the pafla-ges, where you exprefly fpeak to me, Wz,. As One of them ^ and as going beyondthe Independants, and preaching unlawfully to tiiem that milawfttUy hear •, and as dealing jnore difingenioufly and lefs fairly than the old Separatifts, and fo almoft from end to end.

§. J. Scciugy on (liould have been very glad to have found an Anfwer to your Sermon^ an Anfwer you (hall have.

§. 4. Seeing you will no further explain your great word \lSepara-/;■<»«]] I will anfwer it where I find it in your Sermon: And if the Cafe muft be no more intelligibly ftated, I muft take it as you will doit.

§.5. To fum up all, as far as I am able to underftand you, your Sermon containeth, i. The Grounds fuppofed on which you build. 2. Your Accufationofuson thofe grounds. 3. The Ptf;/^///^ which you juftifie. 4. And the Cure which you defire.

1. As far as you are intelligible to me,your fuppofed grounds are, t\!L2X.\_Godhath authorifedthe Magi/irate i. To choofe what Perfons every ntaninhisdominiensfhaUentruflhisfoHlto^ as the Pafior^ whofe CondttU he is botmd in Confcience to obey : 2. And alfo to choofe and command in what words only every Pafior (hallpHblicklyprny to God -, and what Books and words of men he jhall profefs ajfent and cenftnt to\ and what dedicating Symbols ofChriftianity hejliall nfe as engaging in the Chrifiian Cove-nantyZVi'di to command Ceremonies and Modes^ for dijfent wherein heflmi J deny Bapttfm^ and Church- Cof/munion to alldijftmers^ theuah the things ^^l ^e taken to be indifferent by the Magiflrate^ andgreat finsby theVJfenters. 3. And that ail that obey not in ail thefe, but preach wlien forbidden, or ufe other accidents or modes, and choofe other Paftorsto be their Guides, arc Separatifts and fin againft God.

II. Onthersgroundsyou.judgmeand fuchothers finful Separatifts-

III. You juftifietheexecutingofthe Laws upon us and would nave us filenced, and fuch Diflcntersnotendured '

• ^* ^* a m ^V^""^ Tuppofed ground, i. You kriow, it's like, that inmy hrft Pica for peace, /largely confuted it: And could you think that without any reply your bare faying over the thing confuted, could beany fatiffadlion, tooncof any lenfe or confcience.

2. \ou cannot but know that the judgment and praftice of the U. Hiverfal Church m E ,y?and Wrfi hath been againft you, not only for-thehrft 300 years but for many hundred after. Father/>W5^r. K\ r. \ !" his Hiflory of Church Revenues truly teftifiethit: /have Proved itby many Canons and Hiftories in my Church Hifto-TV, that he was to be taken asno Bifhopthat was chofen byMaei-ftrates, Prelates or any without the CUrgusElemon, and tht People iidttcn OTto;7fcra : Chnftians then took not this to be any Part of the Fnnces truft : but only to countenance the things that furthered Learwngand Godlynefs, and encourage the Clergy and People to choofethcbeft, and to protect and encourage and Govern them by the fword wh.n they were chofen. This being pait doubt, were the Univerfal Church Separatifts ? /s cr C./i^with the Univerfa! Churcn oiyojtr Sxngidartty from it, liker to Schifm or Reparation >

3. ^i^nowthasthereare incoveniences in the Peoples confentin^ Power, and fo there are m all humane affairs? but not to be cured by Pernicious mifchiefs. You wiU not tell me, becaufe you cannot tell me, how wc (hall know what Magillrates they be that have this truft ? Whether Heathens, /nfidels, Mahometans, Socinians! Anans Macedonians, Eutchians, Monothelites, /mage-Worllii! pers Papifts, Anabaptifts, or who? and whomuft judg of their qualifications ? Yea were we fure that the Prince were Orthodox! If he were but wicked, debauched, an enemy to ferious PrS Piety, as all wicked men naturally are inclined to be, will not all fuch choofe Bifhops and Paftors like themfelves ? wha more natura

£dpf(vTf'^'''"'^;^'' ^"^ ^^^'"^^ ^'^J^^d Bilhopsmakewk ir'c.nln^l' And_you know the Patron hath the choice with us and Its a nender qualification which the Bifhops hsth power ro require ^thouta^....,-.^.^,, : AnAtheift, aForuicaror,aJD/J^.?;jra Hattr of hchmfs^hathmvenhelefs the choice of a Prieft for the Par (h. to whom all the People muft intrufl their Soals. What a fad Cafe

aZllt ^r'^r ^^^L^'"»'^ ^' "^^y ^^'^^""y ^^ve no other p! ftors than Gentlemen and Princes choofe for u.? When Chrift tslls «$faow hard It IS for the Rich to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven

and how few of the Noble are called, and \jn umanmlo^^c.'} is become a Proverb. What a Cafe were Hungaryy Poland^ Frarxe, Ger» tnanyj and the Gr^fi^^Churches in, if this were true ?

4. Perfonal Fewer in mantis the firft: Family Power is the next: City and Kingdom Power fuppofeth thefe and cannot deftroy them: Hence fubjeds that are not meet Slaves, (land up to Plead for their P^r/o;?^! znd Domeftick^property^ liberty and Power. If my Money and Limbs and Life be not at the Patrons or the Princes will, much lefs my Soul. He is trufted with my Eftate and Life ^ but I am firft and moretruft-ed with them- He may keep out ill Phifitians from the Land, and encourage the good ^ but he hath no power to tie me to an ill Phyfiti-an, nor to an ill Diet, nor to ill Servants, &c. Tke choice of thcfe belongeth to my felf^ Much lefs can he on pretence of Parifh order tie me to an ignorant drunken, Maglignanl, or an unexperienced faplefs Teacher, that is to my Soul as a filly Emperick tomy health.Scripture, the World, and Experience tell how much God morally giveth his light and grace, according to the apitude of means .- Habitus infufi fe habent ad modttm acquifitorHm^ is common in the ScW/j. Twenty finners are ufally fooner brought to repentance under skilful fit Teachers, than under unskilful or ungodly Men-Andnomanhath Power from God to damn my SouU or forbid me the needful means of my falvation. No man is fo much concerned asmyfdfwhat be-cometh of me for ever, and /will not beleive that the Patron loveth me and all the Parifti better than we love our felves.

jEwg/4«<;/hath been blcft with better Rulers than other Lands: But one Rule muft in this be held to by all the Churches. And if you would even here appeal to Experience, / will not here ftay to tell you th^names of 8 or 6 or 10 ignorant Readers, moft Drunkards, fbme rarely, half never Preaching, that / was bred under, nor what a ftock of fuch our Country had, and how very thin pious tolerable Preachers were: nor what worthy men Aldermanbury^ BlackJryerSi the Inns-of'Courts^ and moft places have had where the People chofe.

But reafon fignifieth little with moft, who are on his fide that talk-€th to them with the beft advantage: / infift on this, You go againft all the ancient Fathers and Churches for many hundred Years, and are fo far a Separatift from more than one Parifti Prieft.

II. And therefore your accufation of us thus grounded is Shifma-tlcal and unjuft, and recoileth on your felf, who inftead of Gods Rule that alljhohldwalkj^y, accufe them that walk not by your novel crooked Rules, which may make as many Modilh Religions as there are Princes.

III. And your defire of ouryj/fw/wf and not being rc/rr^r^«?, I will only here lament, and after fpsak to.

IV. And

IV. AndasyourCurebyour Co;;/orw//'^ is. impoinble ; fo that by )?/<•);. cing will be none, but increafe the d'feafe.

§7. Isit not a very uncharitable thing of you, that when it's I whom you have called to account, you flatly deny or (hun to give me an Anfwer to my Cafe, and to the Cafe of all others that preach only in Parilhes where few of the People can hear in the Church. Why ask you [To what fur-pofeJhouUyoMrefolve thofe Queries ?3 I Anfwer, to fhew me whether my preaching be my Sin,or Duty: And whether you jaftly, orunjuftly accufed me,and all fuch others ^ was it not to this purpofe that I craved youc Anfwer.

2. And do you not know, that in the Bills of Mortality it appeareth that the Parifhes within the Walls are but about the feventh part of the whole ^ and the outer PariQies, which are thus great, are about fix parts: Andinthefe Pariihes'ft is not the tenth part in fome, and the fixth in mod that can come within the Church to hear. And it is pity that one half, ortwoorthreepartsof fuch a City as Z^w^ow (hould be left like the /«^w«^ without any publick Teaching and Worfhip, and fuch as you fay fotmuchfor it.

§. 8. You fay, the Separate Meetings are kept in the City^ Hackney, New-ington, &c.

Anf. 1. What's that to me, and all fuch other.' 2. I can tell that fome City Churches are yet unbuilt, and the Tabernacles will not hold the People (as Chrift-Church, and others.) }. And divers keep Meetings ir/>/;/>i the Walls, where they found moft peace, for the reception of tloofe without the Walls^ that cannot come into their own Churches. 4. What's done at Newington 1 know not i But at Hackney 1 know of two Meetings, where the Minifters fo preach out of the time of Publick Worfhip, that none may behindred from going to it, and deny not Communion with the Pa-rifh-Churches, And they tell me, that as the Incumbent Officiateth by another, fo the Parifh is lb great, and the preachers voice fo low, that a great part cannot hear him.

5. Why do you fay they are fepardte Meetings, when you know that you have caft them out: The Preachers had rather Preach in your Temples, and they cannot be fuffered: Preachers and People that are profeHed Nonconformifts but in Opinion, are by the Canon ipfo fatko Excommnnim cate.

$. 9. As to what you fay of the Reafon of their Meetings', T Anfwer, I. Ithinkfasfaraslcan Judgej the mofl; of my Hearers, (1 think ten or twenty to one) do alfo hear in the Parifh-Churches: So that your Charge of Separation againlb them is but for hearing both : And I believe it is fo with many o:hers. 2. Every one that preferreth better, doth not fepa-rate from all the reft ; Your Church alloweth any free Man to forfake andchangchis BifliopandParifliPrieftasoftashe will i fo he will but

C change

change his dwelling: And in /*p»<^«, Lodgers may change frequently. iT/ know thofe called Puritans better than you, /muftprofefs that /believe of the two it is more xhtPreAcher and his Preaching which maketh the difference with them than the LitHrgy. For my part / feldom hear any but very good well ftudied Sermons intheParilh Churches in London where /havebeen; But moft of them are more htted to well-bred Schollars,or judicious Hearers, than to fuch as need more Practical Subjeifls, and a more plain familiar eafie mode: And it is not your Reafoning that will bring all Appetites to the fame Food ^ nor make the fame Books ferve every Form. I have alwaies found that fuch Conformable Preachers, as wereMr. j?o/-toHy Mr.Fefjmr, Mr, Whateiy^ Bifhop Vjl^er ^ fire. Were flockt after by thofe called PHritans, as much as the Non-conformifts. But when they find all together, i. That the Worfhip and the Preaching is more fuitable to their good, 2. And that their Souls have need of much other Pafloral help than publick. 3. And doubt of the calling of obtruded raen,no wonder if they prefer the other.

i, 10, But you lay the Itrefs on the Prohthitlon of the Lnw^vphkh the greats nefs orfmatlnefs of the Pari^i doth not make more cr lefs Lawful.

Anfw. God hath commanded all Ctiriftians ordinarily to L^arn and Worfliip him under the Condud of his Inftitution, all Chriftians grant this. No man hath Power to forbid this: All Law that forbiddeth it - is of no Obligation. In a Parilh where loooo, 20000, 40000, can not come within the Church to hear ^ if they have no other pl^ce to go tOjthey muft forbear all publick Learning and Worfliip: So that the Engltjh of your Words is, that if the Law forbid the moft of the People all Publick Learning and Worfhip of God, it is there as unlawful for any to Congregate againft that Law as where there is no fuch need. But, i. /again tell you. Councils, Dodors and the Univerfal Church thought otherwife, and abhorM this Dodrine. 2. Why will you tiot give us one word of proof, bat your naked Authority to prove fuch Authority in the Magiftrate, and" ^ fatisfie ns what Rulers have it, and how far it reacheth : Hath the King enabled Juftices to depofe him, or caft down his Honour or Prero-gative ? Hath God given Magiftrates Authority to damn as many Souls as they will, by keeping them from the means of Knowledge, Faith and Kolinefs; and to forbid hisSnbjedts to worfhip God? Did Robert Groft. 'head of Lincoln take this to be the greateft Sin fave Antichrifts,and do you 'take it for an Ad Authoriz'd ? It is unlawful to preach when forbidden, ■or worfhip God when forbidden, at fapan^ Idojlan^ Chinay Turkiet France^ &c. or only in England} and wh^re ?

^r II. Yet do you conclude C" / wonder a Perfon of our fagicity fhould *^ think to fatisfie your felf or others, by fuch flight Evafions as thefe,wh'Gh *'fcarce any of my Auditors, or Readers how mean fo ever their Capaci-^ ties were, but could difcern the weaknefs of them.

jinjvt. 1. O pity then the frailty of humane underftanding! I get nothing by it if 1 err, but my great labour and thq hazard of my Salvation by Sin! It mufl needs be thenagainft my will-, aad is none of mylizeto be endured? How few Congregations are fo happy as your?, if ail your Auditors are fo muchwifer? but, i. Be the thou lands of your Parifh as vi'i^Q th^t hear you n9t ? 2. How come fomc that I thought the wifeft that I know of your Auditors to fay as I fay, and lament your Cafe ?

Reader, yoy lee here that it muft be fonaewhat better than the confidence of Teachers, that mull guide andfecure the Peoples Faith. This Reverend Man.you fee is molt confident of the ftrength of his Reafons, and the ilightnefs of mine: Aud I am fo far pall doubt on the other fide» as that I think he overthroweth all Religion, and fetteth up Man in open Re-hellion againll God: He may as well wonder that 1 take any thing to be of Divine command: If all publick Worfliip is finful, when forbidden, all Private may be fo toa Daniel may go to the Lyons : The Martyrs, Fathers, Councils, the Univerfal Church are all foolifher than the raeaneft of his Auditors. It's ftrange that he can be fure God's Word is true •, and yet be fo fure that Mens Laws are above it, and may fufpcnd it; when yet Mens Laws have no more ilrength than God's Laws gave them.

1. I believe that the Spirit of God hath laid, Forfakemt the Afftmhling of y^Hr felves together''^ know them that labour among you, and are over you in the Lordf and admomJJ) youy and ejleem them very highly in Love for their work^fakey i ThelT. 5. 12, i j. That have ffoken ta you the word of God, that watch for your Souls j Heb-1 j. 17,24. How (hall they hear without a Preacher, &:c. Rom. 10.

2. I believe that where the Gofpel is hid, it is hid to them that are loft: And without knowledge the Heart is not good, and without Faith there is no Salvation •, and that it is Life Eternal to know God in Chrilt.

}. Therefore they that forbid Men to hear and worfliip God Publickly forbid what God commandeth i and what is ordinarily needful to Salva tion.

4- I believe that God is Almighty, the higheft Univerfal King, and we are all hisSubjeds*, and the Scripture is his Law.

5. I believe that there is no Power but from him, and that he hath given none againll him, or his Laws, nor above him ^ and that Man is not God-, and that we mull obey God rather than man, when they Contra-did.

.A I believe that we mull Love, Fear, and Serve God above all, and Worlhip him according to his Word, and Honour his Name, and keep Holy his Day whoever forbid it: And that we muft Love our Neighbour as our felves, and help to fave him as we may.

7. I believe that I muft love my felf, and feek the faving of my Soul, though the Law forbad me.

C 2 8. And

.^ o A Reply to Dr, StillingfleetV Letter,

8. I believe, that a Father mufl: be honoured, and having care of his Childrens Life and Soul, he mult command them neceflary Food and Means for Body and Soul, and they mufl: obey him, if the Law forbad it.

9. I believe that murdering Souls privatively or poUtively is a fin,as well as murdering Bodies, as many undertaking and not performine Paftors will find.

la. 1 believe that he that obeyeth not a Law which was made againfl Gods Law, or whliout Authority given by him, finnethnds againft Authority. .

11. I think in fuch cafes, he that fubmitteth to tli€Penait?y of a Penal Law, doth enough.

12. Iconjea;ure,that the multitude of Cafuifts, Politick Writers, and Lawyers, Cwhofay that Becanfe the Common-Good is the End af Government^

landaliPoycerisfdrEdification, no Lm ohrti^ethwhicU is a^aiijji the ComYnon ,iGood^ or at leajl that is defiru^ive of it,2 are like to be near as knowing in fuch matter, asthe w^^iwy? of the Doctors//^rfr^ and ^^4^^?'^.

13. And I am palt doubt, that he that denieth rheie Principles, will fhort-ly have no caufe toglory of his Wifdom.

And O what caufe have we that are Teachers, in ftead of proving thofc intoUerable that differ from us in fach matters as our Conformity to conli-der that an Errour inus.efpecially fo Practical and momentous,is far more dangerous than in the People. If all my Neighbours raiftakemy Difeafe and the Remedy, it may not hurt-me '■, but if my Phyfician miftake it, it may be -my death. Bifhop Z/'Jfc^r and many Protcftautsdo except a Learned Papfift much more than the unlearned from the hopes of Salvation.

§. 12. I will ceadjIyAafwer your Qaeries,.though you refofe to Aftfwer •mine, .. .l. o-■-- -^ '-^^-'^^ '.L-l,-. ,■■ juc . .. ;:...-'

To your firft, Thofe whoriglitfully giVe'Orders, triuit give ^chOtden ^as God hath inftituted, and may not limit or ru(J3end contrary to his Infti-JCUticn or Laws. As he that marrieth Perfons niay not except the Husbands iPower of Government, nor may unmarry them again, fave for Adultery, ^onemay filence Minifters that forfeit not their Office.' On jlift caufe to Ipull down Churches, and alienate the Church Goods, (as fomeBiniops of told did for the Poor) is no Sacriledge: nor to filence an intollerable Teacher : But to filence Minifters unjuftly, is another mattcr.ii'ii."3a^no; u■;;^ , »If men will cant over ftill, WhofiMe Judge'^ We ftill repeat^ i. -Who-■^ver is Judge, he hath noPo.ver to c^ft out Faithful Minifters: and if he 'mif-jutlgethcm, it juftlfieth nothisatt. And every man is the''-^/^rr/»/»g-rjitd^eof his oxvn Duty. v./. ■ ' ^

-$. 15. To yonr^Second Qiiery, ChriftianMagiftrates may juftly j^l^ ■jerve the publick Peace by all juft means, and may reprefs all Rebellious Praflices and Principles : but ifthcyfliould mif judge any Principles to be fuch that are not, and for not renouncing thofe Ihould filence Minifters, if

they

A Rej^ly to Dr. StillingdtQt's Letter, jti

they have fitter means than filcncing to corred them •, filencing them, wheQ Xhetr Miniftry is needful, isa fin.

B It feeing thefe words are fignificant of your mind for filencing us, and theReafonsof it, why would you not tell me, what thofe Principles arc which we refufe torenounce,and fodeferve filencing. Either you Jay the ftrefs on the gniltincfs of our Principles,or on the Magidrstes judging them fo.You cannot think, that if he mif-judge,it will jaflifie his filencing men: Eife yalctjj,t/ufjmeyichMs,that Cut out the PreachersTongucs,thofe that filen-(ced the Preachers in Germany on one fide for not fwearing for the PopCy^nd on the other for not iwearing for the Emp_ ror,<:^c.all did well. Seeing then you fpeak as an Accufer of us,as guilty of refulir.g to renounce fuch Principles, and fubfcribe your implied confcnt to our filencing for it: O that you would be/t? charitable as to help our Couvsrjion^ and tell us what thofe Princl-pKsare. I have told the World at large my own and many other Principles of Government and Obedience in my fecond Plea for Peace : I crave your difcovery of my Errors therein: Yea, I provoke alfo fuch as more fiercely acci^fe us as Plotters, or cherifhing Principles of fltbtUion, to name that Principle which 1 have not there renounced.If all that's there be not enough, 1 knovv not wiiat will be enough.

§. 14. To your id. I anfwer, i. It followeth not, That Authority to fi-lence juftly is to no pnrpofe, unlefs all unjuftly filencing muil be obeyed : The Apodl s,thc old Biihops,r.hemoil: of the Churches havedifobeyed fuch as did ih J Wald^nffSy Bohemians^ G er man-Prot eft ants ^ the French^ Belgians ^Re-tnonj}raritSj and Contraremonfiraf.tt^ &c. You fay grotnefs of Parilhes makes no difference : What if the King turned all Lor.dor, mto one Parifh, and fo forbid all Preaching and Publick Worfhip to all fave a few thoufands; Is Authority vain, unlefs all the reft turn like to jithiefls} No good Chriftian fhonld obey the Popes Interdicts of whole Kingdoms, though he had as much Authority as the King : A power to damn Souls is a frighfull word.

2. Either the fuppofition that isunjiiflr, is true or falfe : If falfe, it will not jultifie theirPreaching"- //true,either his preaching is neccflary or unne-cefTary. Ifitbencceflary, we muftobey God, anddifobey m^ufasGrofthead faithj by an obedient difbbsdience: //itbeunnecefiary, though the Magi-(trate fin, I mult forbear there, and go to fome place where I may preach without doing more huit than good : So tha*-?.ll our Controverfie lieth but in this. Whether the preaching of the looofilencedA/linfte.rs was unneceila-ry,and tended to do more Kurt than good.' And thisisallthatMr.;R4//j^4;»7<^, orany foberNorcoi.Oi milt meant: And thsis pinin truth, though the beftofycur^Hearers,^nd Readeis,oryourS.lf,contr^did t.

^i5-And whrrt'aA\ou fny,Thisi am certain iscontiiry (o theDocftrine of all tne Noncoafoimilts of former times, \our-^trr<o;;isfo rsfh zvA falfe in mat£ers'0f«o/*)«(?/« t'aci^lh^t it weakneth my reverence of your Judg-

■ Eient

mentinmatter of right, /have told you whatBifhop Ba»crcft hkh of the old Nonconformifts forming Churches and Difcipline : The Canon againtt Conventicles,thenceoccafioned,confuteth you : / have heard old Noncon-formifts preach conftantly publickly and privately againft Law: / was familiar with many of them : /never knew oi e of the mind ycu mention. Moll of them did preach themfelves that ever /heard cf. If Mr. Rathb and had denied this, it had been no proof. Mr. Jflj that is one of them there and Mr. Slator^ both Preached at Bremcham long, Mr. Patemamt Mofeley^ &c. MuUiludes I could name. And yet a man that knew them not C« ccr» tain that all the Nonconformifts of former times had contrary Do^rine.'] I was in 1638 and 16 39 accounted one oftnem, though /urcdtheLiturgie,which moft of them did not. I knew them better than you did./have named many in my firft Pleajwhofe Pradice proveth your great Error in that Hiflory where you fay you are certain.

$. 16. To your fourth Queftion, An Obligation may be called [the fame,^ i« ^ioadterminnm. 2. Q^oad^radnm. 5. ^oad modnm ohligandi. 4. Quoad realitatem.

1. The Apoftles had an obligation to afTert Chrifli RcfurreUion^ as eye-VfitnejfeSy and to record his DoBrine a;id Laws injalUbiy in ^crifture^ and to many th'mgs proper to them,which we have not i But vv£ are obliged to the work of our proper Office.

2. The Apoftles had greater obligations then we, by more immediate Call, and fpecial gift of the Spirit, and fpecial Commiffion and Commands when ours are lower, but firmly binding us.

3. The Apoftles were obliged by Chrijls immediateMJfion,znd Commijfion-^ and we but by his ordinary inflitntedmeans. But we are as truly bound to our Duty, as they to theirs.

2. And our Duty is to preach the Gofpel tothofe without, and thofe within, according to our Power and opportunity, and to do the reft of our Office when we can. And though we are called to this without fupernatu. rallnfpiration, Vifion, or Miraclej being called^ weareas truly obliged as Parents, Husbands, Princes are to their Duties. It is not lawful to look back when we have put our hands to Chrijis Plow,nor perfidioufly to break our Ordination Vow, nor to be negligent or treacherous Non refidents, Pluralifts.flothful, nor to obey men more than God, though we were not called immediately, or by miracle.

J. If the Magiftrate appoint 20000 or icoo, or one half a. Parifh to be excluded for want ofRoom and Teachers, it's ill fuppofed th2Xt\\Q Goff et istrnly andfhfficientlypreached to them^ to whom it is not preached at alK! And that it is preached to others, proveth it not unneceflary to them. --^

4. He that only readeththe Gofpel truly preacheth it: ButSOuIs have need of more Paftoral help than bare trne preaching.

5. /gnorant wicAed men in England can no more be fa ved than Heathens,

and

A Reply to D. StUIingfleet's Letter, l|

and have need of convincing, skilful ferious Preaching as well as they. Your wondring at our allegation of the Apoftle's words, and great confidence in fo fad a Caufe, fets me almoft above wondring at any thing that you fay. Timothy was not called immediately by Cbrifi^ who had that dreadful Charge to prezcti infeafonartd out offeafon. The Univerfal Church long judged otherwife of this cafe than you do: And not only Bifhop Bilfon^ but /thinkalmoft all Chriftion Writers,Proreflants and Papifts, herein follow the ancient Church againft you. The Nonconformifls and others eafiiy grant what/faid before, That no one Apoftle might he filencedby m^n-^ but defer vir?^ Afimjlers^ that do more hurt thsn good hy their Minifiryf maybe filenced by Clirillian Magiftrates : But not the Churches Edification oppugned, and 200 o faithful men (ilenced for not finning on pretence of a power to judg 01 execute.

$. 17 My Qiieftion implieth, i. That every man is moll concerned for his own Soul, and hath a/jmr obligation to fecure it, which the King cannot diTp.nfe with. 2. And, That every man hath nearer helps to know what is good or hurtful to his Soul in doubtful Cafes, than the King that never ■fawl-.im hath. ^ And every man is like to love himfelf more than the King loveth him. 4. Aad that the King can no more bind him to hurt,or fam Hi, or endanger his Soul than his Health in Diet.

Bu: t\\t King mult give mca all tlie helps that he can:and fet up and mnn-tainc iuiFxicnt r\ blick Teachers,and drive the ignorant and profane to hear and kar;j,aiidpromoteOrder and Concord;aiid hinder Unpeaceable-nefsdiidD; order by jiift means. Buc/havefo fully declared the Magi-ftrate"'s Work in my Book ot Concord,that /will not repeat it on this flight occafion.Separations mufb be prevented by right means./had no Se-peratift in agrt;at Congregation for fourteen years,though many Seds Itrongly and often temp:ed them-, no not one Seperate meeting all t'lat time, and this without force. Vhac haan will it do me, or them, if my Hearers go from me (as you fay j to Or. O ? Our whole Country where / lived almoft kept Concord and kept out Separtion without the Magiftrates conltrainc : Experience is not eafily confuted-Why then do youtell meofwi^//;<«t/e vrritten tgaivfi Separation ? when you may fee that I contradict none of this ; and when that wArinf^ with my other Endeavours, ferved without the Rulers Sword, /had three Jultices always at hand that would have done for me what they could at any tim2 :/never defired one ad of force firom them . / allowed Q^iakers and Anabaptiils Publick Difputes half a day together: They never won one Man or Woman by it. Mr, Tombes his great Parts, and/ntcreft with his Flock and Kindred^ could get but a-bout twenty four,or lefs then thirty Anabaptiils at 5cW^/y, almoft all the reft of the Country was free, fave a few inconfiderablc Quakers at Worc<?/?<r^, aud a fma!l Village or two .The Ifke was then done without force in many other Counties-

§. 18. J

%. i3. I told you how necejfarytbe relblving of the ^ejiions which I fentyou was to my ConviStion: And I will not provoke you, by giving that Name to your denyd of an Jn^wer to themj which 1 think impartial Rea-tiers will give ic

I. Will other men believe that he doth well to deny me the Defimtionof that National Church which he writeth of, or to tell me whether he fpeak^ of M Lay or a ClergieG averment ^viho writes his Wtfff^^r that! fhould fay^ Iknovf not what they mean by the National Church ? How can I know whom to obtyy or when 1 feparatc from the Form of Governmenti if I know not what it is ^ Is this nothing to our Cafe ? 1 take my felf to be more bound to obey the King, than fome Bijljops^ You knew that you are here devided as for two Church-f or ms among your felves-

II. Would any man that ever knew you have believed that ever you, even yoHy fhould have fo Preached and written for walking by the fame Rule, and Bccakd the Nonconformifts as worthy offilencing and as intollerablefor fwarvifig from th^t Rule f and when you have done, will by no intreatybe prevailed with fo much as to tell me what that Rule is^ Divine or Humane, the Statutes or the CanonSy or what ? yea, and think this impertinent to thp bufinefs ?

III. Was it not almofl; Incredible, that when all this was faid and written againfl: our Separation^ that I cannot intreat you to tell me what Separation is, even what is the formal Reafon from whence you fo name it, and whether you make it not to be the fame with [^Dtfobedience^^ contrary to the common Sence of Church Writers ?

III. Isit net hard to have been believed, that when I and others are fo loudly accufed of Prf^c^iw^ f though 1 never gathered a Church) to fome of many thoufands that cannot come into the Tempksy (many of which never heard a Serw^w of many yearsj that I cannot intreat you to tell me what all thofe thoufands fhould do on the Lords day, and how you would have them fpend the time : And that this fhould betaken as/w;>frrrw«f .• TheCanon commandeth the fpending of the Sunday and Holidays in hearing GodsWord^ &c. Doth he keep this better that goethtono Churchy or he that heareth fuch as I ?

Let the Reader alfoperufe the reft, and fee whether they are im^erti-tent.

$. ip. Before you defired me I have long tr«^W with mymofl fe-nous 2nd impartial thoughts^ the matter of this Controverfie : And I had grtzt Reafon fo to do, when for the labour which you account my fin, I wear my Health and Fle(li^ I fuffer reproach, and many a thoufand Pounds Lofs and Dammage, in thefe nineteen years •, and being weary of a burden-foTie Body, do bear it and live efpecially for that Work. And if I do and* fuffer all this for fin, to the wrong ofthe Church, andthehazard of my Soul, alaF, what a cafe am / in.' when no Stud y, no Prayer, no refolved contempt

tempt of all Mens cenfure, and of worldly Interefts, in twenty years time, xQz'm forty one^ (for fo long I have been partly a Noncon^ormift ) can change my Judgment, or make me doubt ? Lord, fhew me thy Truth, and make me true to it, whatever itcoltmci and teach us all to know what manner of Spirit we are of, and acquaint us with the true way of Chriftian Piety, Love, and Peace. June ly. 1580.

To the Reveref/d Dr. Edward Stillingfleet, Dea^ of St. Paul?, d^c.

Richard Baxter re/«r/7c//:> this Account of his Vodrine and VraOict^ which by his publi(hed Sermon^ preached before the Lord Mayor^ May 2. 1680. he often calleth me to '■> and the Lord Mayors and Court of Aldermen's earnefi defire of his printing it^ add to my Obligation,

5^. I- QIR, I apprehend much reafon for my rendring you this following i3 Account, and fome againd it : And it was not eafy to me quickly to refolve which did preponderate. It is eafy to forcfee, that the Papifts will be glad that your Pen be turned from them, againft thofe whom they are moll againft, and will laugh to fee you diverted by fuch a Scuffle. And Satan, knowing our frailty, will hope to perfuade you, that all that is (aid againft the weaknefs and error of your Writings, is againft your Intereft and Tou^ and fo to ftir up in you Paftionsand Thoughts diredlly contrary to Love and Concord, and your own and the Publick Good : For with fome he hath unhappily fucceeded to carry them from one Error to another, till he hath brought them to the bitter hatred of their Confuters. And though I am not fo confidcrable as you, the Tempter difdaineth not fo low a Game, as to try whether he can make your erroneous oppofttion a fnareto me. When I fa ^ that you had begun this contentious way, it was eafy to forefce that Satan's Caufe wa"; like to gain by it, and therefore I fear that he was much the caufc.

^. 2. And I remembred Trov. 17.14. 'the beginning of Strife it as n-hcnonc letteih out JVater '■> therefore leave off Contention before it be meddled with. And if you could not forbear beginning, you will hardly forbear when a neceflary Confutation feemeth to difhonour you Interefi^ you tell me,//./?ro;;^i and it is eafierto fpeak againft felhdi Partiality than to overcome it. I never perfonally provoked you, unlefs it was by confuting your Opinion, [ that no Form of Church-Govcrnmcni is of Divine Injii tut ion'] in my Chrijiian Di' reClory : But as I named you not unlefs with honour, lb your own accuHng of that Jrenicon of yours, Cothcrwife a very laudable Book j doth feem to jultify what I faid

^. 3. And 1 tmly fear, left the opening of your Mifdoings Ihould rejoycc the Papirts, and encourage them to fay, Ihis is the Champion again]} the Cath?^

D lickj.

lick^. For I fpeak from my heart in my ufual faying to them that mention

you, That this Kingdom is greatly beholden to you, for your feafonable

and open defence of the Proteftant Caufe, at a time when .

And I am glad tiiat you blame them that accufe the Conformable Clergy of yeildingnefs toP^^^eryi which implieth, that no Bribe (hall tempt you, di-rcdly or indircdly to ferve that Caufe, how ftrongly foever it Ihallfeem fup-portcd by the Arm of Fk(h.

5^. 4. But yet in fo publick a Caufe, to be by your Accufations fo loudly called to be accountable for my Dodlrine and Practice, and that to the Ma-giftrate, and to an End eahly difcernable i and to refufe to tender you or the Magiftrate any )u(t fatisfadion, when refufmg may make me and thoufands more taken for G/^i//y, as by our Cfilent) Confeffion, and confcquently the Magiftrate and you to incur a far greater Guilt, if you iLould millakc, this feemeth to me a Crime not to be ventured on. When you have made An-fwerin^t, neceflary, Imuftanfwer: Elfe I (hould have imitsitcd Melanclhon^ who oft boalieth how muclji he had profited in Philofbphy, fo that he could filently let lUmcus^Oftander, and fuch others write and talkagainit him, If poflible, andas^iuch as in us lieth, we (hould live peaceably with all Men '■> but when that which Men make impollible to us is no Duty, nor the want ofit a Sin, thoughan Alfli(flion, the AggrefTordoth make Defence a Duty. And indeed I mult be guilty of Scandal againli you and others, if I deny you iatisfadtion. Either 1 or you live in no fmall Sin: Though Mr. Cheney think other wife, your words, and many fuch others, fhew, that you take our Courle lobe a Sin intolerable. And if it (hould prove that the Sin is yours, it could ootbe fmall, not only to do what we fear would be fo bad in us, but alfo to accufe us fo publickly to Magillrates, for not forbearing to preach the Go-fpcl when we were folcmnly devoted to it i and pleading againlt the toleration of it, when Non-toleration mull be by Imprifonment, Banifhment, or Death, or fuch Difablement, againft fuch as believe they are bound to preach while they are able.

§. 5. Yet you can tell that they arc ill Men that reported you (lir up M'^gi' jlratfs to Perfecutjon. If that much will prove it.^ it's like they will be emboldened to call you £ an ill Man "] too •» for fuch faults are fo common, that we may fay as Seneca^ £ ^^^ ^^^^^ leviter tangam omnes mail fmmis.'] Indeed they do not well that ufe that word, Perfecution i when your words are but again It Toleration^ and the Church of Eu^hnd's endeavour after Vniformityt which are publickly known.

5^. 6. And no wonder if they are ill Men j when you are hut finding out a certain Foundation for a lafiing Vnion^ which vs impoftble to he attained, till M-m are convinced of the evil and danger of the prefent Separation, &c. That is, you are but proving our Union impollible i for I have elfewhcre proved, that the Convi(^ion which you fpeak of is morally impollible, to become

the

r#Dr. StillingfleetV Ser^mt:, ^'^

tKe terms ofa common Union. It is impoffiWe that we fhould all be convinced that none of the Particulars impofed are Hnful, which I have named in my firli Plea. And fecondly, 'tis as impofiiblc that wc lliould all be convinced, that it is any more lawful for us to forfake our Minifky, to which wr-were vDwed in our Ordination, than to break our Oach of Allegiance, and deny our Duty to the King. So that you do no worfc, thanfor Unionj to prove our Union impoflible : and who is it that makes it fo !*

^, 7. And this ImpolTibility you infer from this Principle, [ that it it lawful to feparate on a pretence of greater Purity^ where there if an agreement in Do-Urine, and the fuhjiantial parts of Worjhip.']

Anfw, I. Was there not this Agreement in the cafe o^ Cyprian ^t\^ the Council, who pcrfuaded the People to feparate from Martid and Bafilides .<* And is not Union poiTible with fuch zsCyprian and the CarthageBiihops ?

2. We that are accufed by you do not fay that j^rve differnot fram you in Vo^rine ahfolutely I ~\ viz. in the Dodlrine about Viocefan Church-Forms, or their impnfmg Power, we never denied this difference. But we fay, £ in the Vo&rineof the ^9 ^^ticles,'] as diliind: from the Form of Government, and impofed Abufes, we agree. And fuppofe that we agreed in fuch Dod^rinc and Worfliip with a Church, that yet held, only that the Pope is jure divino the Conjlitutive Vicarious Head of the Vniyerfal Church, and would take none that confefs it not, for Chriftians y were it a Sin to feparate from that Church ?

3. Suppofi; that Ufurpers fhould thruft out the BiOiops and you, and make themfelves our Paf^ors againft our wills, is it unlawful to feparate from them, though they agree with us in Dodrine and Worfhip? And if the Churches and Councils have been in the right, which for 700 yea 1000 years held that the calling of a Bifhop was null that had not the Clergies Elediion, and the Peoples Eledion or Confent. I need not tell lyou how far this will reach.

4. what if a Church that you agree with in Dodiine and Wordiip will not receive you, unlefs you will deliberately profefs or fubfcribe an Untruth, or covenant againft fome Duty, or commit a known Sin-, is it intolerable foryourather to feparate from them than to fia ? And mult we have no Union till we can in all things thinkas you do?

5J. 8. I think you need not expcdt the Cenfures of the chief makers of nttr Divifwns: A.nd 2S to ihc inferiour Sedarics, if youarea 5jcr//icf, it will be an unbloody one. You well a imonilh us in the end, not to complain too much when we are filenc'd, impoverilhed, and imprifoned : The counfei is good i But for the Dean of Pauls, &c. that isdcfcrvedly loved and honoured by us all whom you thus deal with, and by thofc great Men whofe elleem he defcr-vedly more valueth, while he livcth in this Plenty and Honour, to call himfclf [a Sacrifice^ if a i^^w poor Men fay, Hervrongeth them, when he plead-

D 2 eth

eth againft the Magifirates enduring them, or againft their Judgment that think ihey fliould be endured, Doth not this fecm to another greater tendency, than for mc only to fay dc fado^ I was laid in the Common Gaol^ and fain to mak^ array my Goods and Library io five them from Vijhefs /*] But fo rnuch to your Epillle : The Sermon foiloweth.

^. p' And what could a Man have deltred more to end the main differences among u.s, than the ferious conlideration of your Text in its very plain import and drift.

1. That the Text fpeakcth for Unity and Concord is pafi que/h'on. 2. And that it fpeaketh both to the Paftors and the flocks. 3. And that it fpeaketh to all Chrijlians^ though of various degrees of Attainment: And therefore requireth all to live in Concord that are Chri(lians> not-withiianding other differences. 4. All the doubt is, u^hat is meant by the fame Canon or Rule ? And there arc thefe feveral txpofitiona pleaded for.

1. That by the fame Rule is meant only the General Concord, idemvelk & nolle i to agree, and live in Peace^ znd to mind the fame things,

2. That by the fame Rule is meant the Efl'entials of ChrilHanity received by all Chriftians i which they (hould have concordantly pradifed, notwith-ftanding other difference?,

5. That by the fame Rule is meant the Dodrine which the Apoftles had concordantly delivered to all the Churches.

4. That it was the Churches Creed which is fuppofed then to be in ufc, as the Symbol of Chrifiians.

5. That it is the Canonical SctiptureSi in the times that they were written and delivered to the Churches.

<5. That it is the Example of S. Paul before defcribed, or the matter of it > that is, to hold fafi what he had attained, and prefs forwards towards the heavenly perfedion, by defire, hope, diligence, and patience.

7. Some take the £ one Rule j to be [ the end as it is to be attained by the means•>'] that is, the common good of the Church, and furtherance of the Gofpel and our Salvation: Let all be done to edification.

8. Some fay,that it is the great Duty of Love, which is made the Rule for our undetermined adionsi or, that the fundamental duties are made a Canon ro the Supcrflrudures, as it feemeth to be meant, Ga/.<5.15, i5. And by Ciirifi, Go learn what that meancth, I rvill have mercy and not Sacrifice. To tell you which and hpw many of thefe I take to be meant in the Text, and rvhy, is none of the wcrk which you call me to v but to tell you, that which-ever ofthefeitis, or if all thefe, we fully confcnt: AH thefe. Canons wem'ufl all walk by.

p. But fome fay, that by the fame Rule is meant the Tradition and Cujbm of the V/.iverfal Church,

10. And

10. And Tome, that it is the Canons of the Bifhops in General Councils j and un Icr them, in National or Provincial Councils.

Hi And fome tell u.«, that the Rule ofChrirtian concoid is [^Obedience to the Bijhaps of all the World ( or Univerfal Church ) -who are a College Governing ("not only divijim& pef parter^ in their fcveral Precird-s, but) unitedly as One Regent College, ordinarily per literjf forntjf^ and by General Ccun^ cils when they lit.

12. And fome tell us, that it is the Law or Will of the Civil Chriftian Ma-g'ftrate vvhi*.h is this Rule.

As to thefe four lalt Rules we mu/1 put in our Exceptions. As to the pthy the Traditions and Cuftoms then in ufe were Apoltolical Inliitutions, and fo are coincident with fome of the former : But other Traditions and Cultoms we take not for this Rule.

And as to the tenth, we give Councils, though wrongfully called General, their due honour i as we do to infcriour Councils, and every particular Pallor in his place: but take not this for the Rule here mentioned.

And as to the nth, we know of no futh Government in being.

And as to the 12th, it was not then exigent, and therefore could not be that meant in the Text: But we take our felves b'^und to obey Magillrates, as we have clfewhcre at large explained and profeffed.

In (hort, either you think it is a yivine or a Humane Ruleot Lan> which is here meant, or both : If a Divine^ we (hall not differ from you of any thing, unlcfs it be of the meaning of it. If a Hnmane^ either it is an adt of true Power received from God, or not: If not, you will grant us that it obli* geth us not as this Rule in queflion: If yea, then we agree that we are to obey it: So that all that will be ufeful to our Convidion vvill be, i. That you prove the Perfons authorized to their Office (and of our Magistrates there is no doubt) 2. And that they have autliority to make all the Canons and LawSjWhich you call the Rule. And without this your labour is all loll to us.

5i. 10. But whicli of all thefe it is that you take for the RuV meant in your Text, we mullconjedure: i. You well fay, ^.11. l_Tt tvarjiicha Rule which they very well ktierp^ which they had given them before. ~\ Therefore it was none that was not then in being, but to be made by Bifhops afterward. And, p. 14. you feem to include the Canon made A^ts 15. whatever the fenfe oi this Text is, we willingly alfo rtand to that i and to the Holy Gho(ts deci-> fion, that nothing be iiripofed but necejfary things: And, />. ij- Ihndyou fay (^ that the preferring the ?eace bf the Churchy and preventing Separation^ n>as the great meajure according to trhich the Apojile gave hif direUiotis.~\ And th s is all that I can rind of your determination what if that Rule. And if Peace be the Rule, we all a^^ree with you in declaiming againii the violation of it. But is there no more in your Application ?

p. 11. I remember it is faid in the Life of Jok Bugenhagi-.u Pomerantu (the

D.:? Fallot

Paftor of the Church in Wittenberge^ and the Presbyter diat ordained the Bi-fhops and Presbyters of I>e/7Wiir/^, and many other places) how much John Frederick^ the .Eledtor of Saxony was plcafed to hear him open the Reafons why Magiiirates have power to make Laws, but not Paftors \_armstHm ejft potelhtetn pnliticam authoritate condendi leges., non pugnantts cum Decalogo j e^* de bis traditam fe veriffimum pr£ceptum i necejfe eji obtdire propter confcientian: fed pajioribus exprcjfe prohiberi condere proprizs leges.^ aim dicatur^ Nemo vos arguat in cibo^ in potu nee pojfe banc libertatem uIUhs creature authoritate tolli. 1 But I had rather liretch my Obedience to the utmoft confilknt with Confci-cnce and Obedience to God, than fpeak for anvnecdlefs Liberty.

5^. 12. It is certain, that by \_the fame'Kule~\ is not meant, i. Any Rule that tied ChrifHansto fubfaibe or declare that there is nothing in. our three Books, ( Liturgy, Ordination, and Articles J contrary to the Word of God : For none of them were then extant, nor are they 200 years old. 2. Nor any Rule that tied them to any one humane Liturgy which all the Churches in the Nation muft agree in : For there was none fuch. 3. Nor was it any Rule that impofed on them any dubious unnecelTary Opinions, Covenants, or Practices i nor, in a word, our Conformity^ or any like it.

This is eafily proved : i. Becaufe the Rule which they were all to walk by, was fomewhat then exiftent. 2. It was a Divine Rule. 3. It was that which all Chriftians were to have concord in: But experience tellethus, that all Chriftians (that is, that confent to the Effentials ofChriitianity) never had, nor can have their Concord in any of the fore-mentioned Conformity, as I have proved in my Book of Concord.

^. 13. We will go therefore no further than your Text for the Terms of our Agreement, and for our Defence againft your Accufation: Whatever you will prove to us^ by any fuch evidence as Ihould convince a Man ofreafon and impartiality^ to have been THE RVLE rvhich the Apofile did here mean^ and bid all that are Chriftians walk by, rve earneftly deftre to agree thereto: And we will joyn with you againft any that refufe it. It will be a way more congruous to your Fundtion, and cheaper to your Confciences, to condefcend to thefe Terms, and prove to us what this fame Rule was, than to tell the Ma-giftratcs that it is no fin not to endure us.

^. 14. Pag. If', 17,18, I p. you come to tell us what Separation it is not which you fpeak of > viz. not of the Separation or diftin^ Communion af whole Churches from each other, &c. Anftv, You know it's like your felf what you mean by thcfe words ^ if you would have us know it, I muft crave your Anfwer to ihefc QueiHons.

Qu. 1. DayoH mak^ Separation and diftind Communion the fame thing, or divers ?

Qu. 2. What diftindion of Communion U it that you mean ? When there are fo many things which may diftinguijh /* I. Communion in dijiinSplaces you tak^ not^

• for

to Dr. Stillingfleet s SerfMon. ^ t

f9r Separation, i. NorCommnion under dijlinU Trtshyters or Bijhops, ^, Tljere-fore 1 fuppofe neither under dUiin^ Prhices, or Arijiocracies in C ities^ as fncl\ 4. Nor under dijUnd Latvs (meerly as fttch ) of the fame Prince. 5. Nor dijiin^ in alloived or indifferent accidents. IVhy any ofthefefljoxld he called Separation I ]{nou> not^ unleji 4/ the word doth fi^nifie but Diverfity or Vijiance.

Q^ 3. Do you take Separation here in the fame fence as before and after '■, or Equivocally ? If Equivocal Iv^ why did you not tell us rthat you here meant > hcfides ti.>e difference of Suhjeds : If univocally^ then

Q. 4. // not the Separation ofivhnle Churches much tvorfe than of ftngle Per-fans from one Churchy when it is upon unwarrantable caufe or reafons ? If one Church Mnjujily renounce Communion with another whole Churchy of no true Church, »r as Heretical ^ Ithink^that it 'f done by a whole Churcii againjl ^ whole Church, ma}i^s it wsrfe.

But perhaps you mean, that for two National Churches to have two Kings is not unlawful. No doubt of that: But to what purpofc is it ? Or is it that two Nitional Churches may have different Accidents of Worlhip or Difcipline? And fo may two Dioccfan or Parifli-Churches in our Nation, if the King pleafe at lead.

^.15. You add: IVbich according to the Scripture^ Antiquity, and Reafon, haze ajuli Right and Power to govern and reform themfelves. Anf. Have not all Viocefan Churches power to govern and reform themfelves ?

Government is of various fpecies; Only the King, or fumma PotejLtf Ci-vilis, hath Power to govern and reform by his Species of Government; But every Biihop may govern and reform his Church, asaBifhopi as every Mafter may his Family asaMafter, and every Man himfclf as a Man. It's 3 firange Man, Family, or Church, that hath not power to govern and reform it felf, though not Regal Power. Though Kings have l^ower, they have not God's Powers and all Power that is Humane, is not Regal,

5^.16. Serm. [ By whole Churches I mean the Churches of fuch Nations, which upon the decay of tl?t Roman Empire refumed their Right of Government to ibemjelver, andupon their owning Clvrijiianity, incorporated into oneClmfUan So- -riety^ under the fame common Ties and Rules of Order and Government, j

Anf. I. And had notthofe as good right that were not under the Roman Empire ? T as Abafia^ &c.) 2. Did the Churches under the, Roman Power exercife their great diverlity in Liturgies and other accidents of Worfh'p without right ? Had not they a right to govern and reform themfelves va-rioufly as they did ? 3. Chrijiian Societies are of divers jpecies : Do you mean Chrillian Civil Societies, Kingdoms, free Cities, (>c. or Churches? Or do you take a Chriliian Kingdom and a Chriftian Church for the fame, as the Erajlians do? If fo, I fuppofe half the Contormilts will be againll you, as well as I. At lead you multconfcfs, that if de nomine a Chriltian Kingdom qujfi talemiy be called a Church, it is equivocally > and that thcic is a (brt nf

Chrijiian

Chrijlian Churches which are of another Conftitution. Far were the Chriftian Bifhops for 1300 years from believing that a Prince or Civil Power was ef-fcntial to a Chrillian Church, or that a Church in the common fence was not conftituted of another fort of Regent part, that had the Power of the Kcyes. Two Jpecies of Governours make two fpectes of the Societies, if they are not fubordinare, but prime conftitutive Parts: But the Prince and the Paftor are two fpecies^ well opened among many by Bifhop Bilfon of Sub-jedtion. And verily if you Conformilts be divided among your felves a-bout the very Conllitutive Redtor of a Chriftian Church, you differ more from Cuch other than we do from the generality of you. 4. And what be the common T'yes and Rules of Order which you mean? Are thefe notifying Terms for a Definition ? i. There are divine unalterable Rules of Order and Government, and there are humane Rules about alterable Accidents,

2. There are Rules made by Contract (fuch as Grottui thinks Canons are j, and Rules made by Governours, which are binding Commands or Laws.

3. There are Rules made by Civil Governours to be enforced by the Sword, and Rules made only by Eccleliallical Pallors to be executed only by the Power of the JVord and Keys. Do you mean all thefe ? Or which of them ?

I. All Chridian Churches are tied by the common Divine Rule, and is not confent to that enough to make a Church ? 2. Churches of various Nations may be under one Humane Rule of Agreement or Contradf, 3. The fame Princes may give divers Rules about Accidents to the Churches of one Kingdom, and alfo the fame Rule for fome Accidents to divers Churches under them, who differ in other great things: And doth agreement in thofe Accidents do more to make them One Church, than their difference in Integrals to make them many } 4. Princes may do as the Roman Emperours long did» leave the Bifliops in Councils to make their own Rules by confent, and make no common Imperial Kule for them : Are they ever the lefs One Church ? 5. The Roman Empire and Councils both left the fevcral Bilhops to make Rules for Liturgies and other Accidents for their feveral Churches : Were they therefore the lefs one National Church ?

So that I am no more acquainted by your Words what you mean by a rrhole Church, than if you had faid nothing. There is a rphole Diocejan Churchy and a tvhole Parijh Churchy as well as a whole National Church: And what the Power is, and what the Rule ot Older muft be, whether the Laws of Princes or Prelates, and whether about Effential, or Integrals, or Accidents, and what Accidents, whether all, or many, or fcw^ and which, that mult make a Church to be One whole Churchy you never tell us. An Iniidcl Prince or a Heretick Prince may give the lame

Rule

to Dt, S^ingRcct's Sermon. ^j

Rule of Order to his Chriftian Sub) dis in a whole Kingdom*, Is he therefore the conft tutive Church-Head > Or will you fay, as your Mt,Rich. Hookpr doth, that if be be the Head of aChri^ianCburchy it U n.^cejfary that be be a Chrijiian} To tell us of \_C0mmon lies and Rules of Order'} and never tell us what thofe Ties and Rules are, may ferve your Ends, but not my Edification*

§. 17, But I remember your Irenicum learnedly maintaineth, that God hath inlHruted no one Form of Church-Government as necelLry : And if fo, then not a National Church-Form. And is it not a rvhole Cburcby if it be xvithout aFornty which not God but Minis the A.uhaut of ? Then God made or inditured no fuch thing as a ivhjle Cburcb, Then it is a humane Creature. Then why may not Man make yet more Forms i and multiply, and make and unmake, as he feeth cauVc > and feyeral Countries have feveral Foims. And, forma d at mmeH &ejfe: Aid if God made not any whole Churchy we (hould be acquainted who they be C that were not a Church) that .had Power to make afirll Church-Form? and who hath the Power ever,fince ? and how it is proved } and how It cometh to be any great matter to feparate from a Church-Form which' God never made? and whether humane Church.Forms be not cflea» tial and conrtitutive Caufes of the Churches ? and whether every commanded Oath, Subfcription, Declaration, Office or Ceremony, be ati ef (ential part of this Church-Form } And there be as many ChnircH-Fornjs and Species, as there be Orders, Liturgies and Ceremonies. And allthefe Differences in the fame Kingdom conHitute fo many Schifms and SeparationSt

f, 18. Do you take all the ChrilVians in the Turkjp Empire to be one National Church, or not? If not, then one Head or Humane Law is not tjeccltiry to the being or Government of a Church, nor is it neccffary that it be National. And do you think that the Grf^j^Churches have not Power to govern and reform themfclvcs,though they be not a Nitional Church > Why did Paul write to Corinth (as Clemens alfo did ) and to the GalatUns, &c. and John to Ephcfuit and the other fix, Rev.z. & 3. to reform themfelves, if they had not Power to do it > Eut if ail the Chriftians undtr the 7«r^be one National Church; then it is either becaufe they have one Civil Head, or one Ecclefialiical Head. Not the latter, for they have none fuch i though the Bi-ihopso( ConjijHtinople havefome Primacy by thcjr old Canons and Cufloms. Not the former i for an InHdel cannot be ati-effential part ofa Chritlian Church (as a conllituted Head j$.j!. ,jj ^,^. ■ -1 • .,\ ..

jj. ip. And the Churches in the./'iJwmEmpirc before C>i^f»;ii;wtf, were

E due

true Cfiurches of Chrift's Inftitution, and they had power (0 govern and fC* fo'wn themfelves \ and yet they had no humane Conrtitutive Head, Regal or Sacerdotal, though they had a Civil Heathen Governour, which Was an cx-tfii;iiick accidental Head.

' It is fo contrary to all Sence and Religion, that either a Man as a Man, or a Family, or a Church asfuch, (hould have no power to govern and reform it felf, that I muft needs judge that while you fpeak confufcdly, you meant only a Regal or Supreme Civil PoWer, which yet is *pfrfy/>f«>dl(tind from that which is properly Ecdefiaftical.

5^. 20. Serm.p.i7- [^Andfo the feveralChurches cf the Ly4\zi\0tTyvcafifMhr Afia, if they hud been united in one Kigndom,and governed by thefAtne Authority, uHder the fame Rules, might have bin truly called the Lydian Church.']

Anfrv, I. And is theControVerfy de nomine^ Whether they might beetled tt>e Lydian Churchy when we expe^ed a latisfadory explication de re / No doubt tut.a Church is fo equivocal a woird,that many fort of Aflfembliesiior Societies may bcfo called. I have told you of divers Sences, in which we are called a Church NaPional^ fir ft Plea^ pag, 251. &c» Either a Chridian Kingdortiy or clfe the Churches of an Heathen or aChriftian King, as affodited by a-gteement, may be called a Ntfijon^/G][;«rci^.

2. What if they be united in one Kingdom, of a Heathen, Mahometan^ 6l[ Atfian King, and governed by his Regal Authority, under xhtfume Kulet which he fets them ? Is this that which you mean in your Defcription ? A King asfuchisftot anEcdelTafticai Perfonj and therefore Is not aneffential part of a Church, unlefs as it is equivocally fo called. And is it his Civil Laws for Church-Government that you mean, or the Clergies Canons, or God's Laws ? ThtGreehj under the 7«rj^are under one Prince, and governed by the fame Civil Authority and Laws, and alfo are tjndcr one Patriarch and by the Princes toleration arc governed by the JEcclefiaftick Authority, and Laws of another Species: If you confound thcfetwo Species, or tell us not which you mean in your Definition, it tendeth not to Edification.

3. And what if they be under divers Kings Cas the B^r/^^mw/and Gf^jh' Were) land yet ruled by one Ecckfiaftical Authority and Law > why may not they aifi3 be called One Church, as the Mofcovits are now caHed part of the Greel^^Church ?' ...

ij.. And why might it not be called the Lydian Church while it was a part oFthetmpre, asthe Africdtiittd other Countries w tc > But what is all this de nomine to the Controverfie > All grant that the Civi^ Power n;uft be obeyed in thiir place, and the Church-power in theirs. ''^ ^ ^ •'"'•'^ '

5. ^uthtx^ougtmtthit they are JeveralChufchefbsfote.thdtVtmon in on.Q Kirigdonh.^" And I fuppofethey were Churches, i.bf another'Species

than

to Dr. StillingfleetV Swmn, -. j j

than the liatmal defcribed by you, 2. and were of Dhhie Inftitution J 3,^nd continue fo after their Union in one Kiagdom \ 4. and havejover to govern and reform themfelves flill, though not Regal Power.

^. 21. *^erm, *Q//<# ofCeveral Familief umed,m:i]^ one Kingdom, which at ^ firjlbjd iii^n^ and hidtpthdent povfer '. hut it n'ould makf firange eonfufton

* in thi? r^'" ' Uorc'hci Khigdoms back^ again to Families-, becaufe at firji they vpetet .' fthem^^

A arc they not feveral Families ftill? and have they not ftiil a

dil^i* ; power to govern and reforrr, themfelves, tho not a Regal Ponxr ?

Dc ^- -ity or Kingdom diflblve Families ? You cannot mean it.

Wbc u then by redudng thef Kingdomt bac}^ to Families^ when they

are ( 1 i* Had you faid, ^^s.t dijfjhing Kingdoms or Cities^ andr^-

ducin^ .u^>a *, tic oKly Faf»iliej,\s co[ lufion, it's undeniable. But ftill as Families in a Kingdom retain Fatftry-Potfer, fo particular Churches in a Kingdom retiin the Church-power which God by his Inftitution gave them. And this is that we dedre.

§. 22. Serm. ^[T'huf National Churches are National Societies of Chrilti.Hs

* tfftder the fame Laws of Government and Rules of lVor{hipr\

u4nf, I. All Chrittians are under the fame Vivine Laws and Rules. 2. Some Princes make no Church^Laws to Chriliians, buc their Civil Laws for the cominon Peace. And fqme macHe various Laws for various forts of Chirilii-{ins under them.

^. 23. Serm. ^[For the true Notion of a Churchy if m more than a Society of ' A^fif, united together for their Order and GovemmeiU according to the Rules of the

* Chrijiiau Religion.

AttjfP' I. There be many true Notions of fuch an equivocal word as a [^Cbureh"] is. 2. The Generical NotionCvtrc is not enough for the definition of Cich fpecies. There mutt be more. The Univerfal Church is a Society of Men fo united i and fo may the Churches of divers Kingdoms » and (b is a Chri-ftian Kingdom as fuch > and fo is a Provincial Church, and a Diocefan Church, and a particular Parochial Church: yet alt thefeare notof thefamejj>^cic/t for thty have different terminos in ffecie, 5.This is a very dtfe<5tive Definition, where I.;[^(f«] are made the qualified Subjt;<5l:, when it fliould have bin [ChriiHans']. 2. The twoccnftltutive elTential Relations of Pjj/^flr and FlocJ^^ aie not mentioned, as if a Kingdom were defined without the mention of King and SubjeHs. 3. They are faid to be united in general^ without telling us what uniting is meant, whether only \>^ force-^command^ or confent, whereas moft take even the Mode of Inveftiture ( Baptifm ) _%svi'd\3LsC9Hjent, to be neceffary tf^ irJJ, as to the Vifikh Chjtrcb' 4. It is faid they are united [^for

C |5 Richard Baxter'/ Avfvptr^

Order aJidGoziernmeHt,'] as ifthefe were but thTerminKf'y and fotnay thote by zfiteemtrd de future^ that yet have do GoveriEn.nt : whereas the Go-vernmcit is rhe confiitHfive form. 5 Ti is Derinuion leaving out the/^ cifici^Form .'ti^ 7<rm't>iw^ makerh an Army a Nivy, a Ship, a Company of C brijiijH M rchifits-, or Corporation^ &c. fo he a Church : for all thefc may be Societies oj M^i ttnited together for their Ordir and G'^vernmenty according to the Kultf of the Chrifiian K''!tgion : For ihe (^brijiijn Kdijiion giveth RuUs foall forts i(Cbrtliijn S cieties. Thcfe are noi the uluil ways of defining, nor give me any (rue notice of your fnce. 6. And you make it not intcl Jgible, whether by the Kulef of the ChrijiiaH Kelig'on you mean only the "Divine 'Rule ? and whether you mention it as thr uniting Emd^ or only as a Kule to ibmc hurtiaHf Rule ? But thoui:hthe application look this way, yet your words fptak no more then what is common to the (.hutches which you accufc that ar \jtnited for Order and Government according to the Rules of the Chrijiian Religion-'] If thin will feive, thofeare thus united that rake the Bib'e for their Rule "f O der, &c. But is not this ag^inft thofe Ci&KrcJ&f/, that take not the Bible^ but Canons, or other hutnane Laws for the bou'.id of their Cburcb-Vnion-, or theii Rule? If it be uniting for Order and GovernmeHt according to the Rules of the ChrifHanReligion^wWich makcth a Churchy let us then try which Societies arc fo united, and let that beihc matter oi our Dif-pute.

f, 24.. Serm. p. 13. [_/4nd it if a great tniliake to make the Notion ofaChttrek

* barely to relate to AGs of ff^arfhip and c-mfquently that an adequat Notion of

* a Church U anjlffmbly for Divine Worfhip > by which means they appropriate the

* Namt of Churches to particular Congregations : vf hereof if thii held true, the

* Church muft be dtffjtved oi foon as the Congregatim it broken up. 'But if they re-

* tainthe nature of a Church whtn they do not meet togtther for Wcrfhip\ then

* there if fome other Bond that uniteth them » and what ever that i*, it conjiitutes

* the Church' ' i -

Anfrp. I. Did you write this as a Confutation of any body? Iffo, you fhould have told them who are yo'ir Advcrfirics. I never met with one to roy remembrance that faith, the Church if no longer a Church than they are con^ grfgjff, but Mr.C/7f«fy,who writerh againl! my Tleafor Feace. And fo the iwofirftwhonow write againft me, write again(t one another, and I murt pleafe them both. When you fo far differ among your felvcs, you (hould bear with them that lefs diflfertrom you.

2. What mean you by rhe « N-tiouffa Church"^ which all Men know is an equivocal word ? Do you mean that a [Church'] hathbut one Notion ? I pray 5GU tell us, whether the Notion be rh- lime as it is ufed. Mat. 16. 18. & 18. 17. I Cor. II. 18,22. ^d?. 19.32,—3p,40. I for. 14.34, Pfal.26-^. Ephef. 5, 2^. I tim. 3. ly. A^, ;. 11. AUs 20. 28. Kcv* 2. 12, iS. Kc^m. itf. 5.

Phil2» 10. j43s 8. I,?. Ejfbef, 5.25.0/. X. 18.E^i&r/^ 1.22, <^ f.23. Dothanv Man bdeive that ic is in all thefe Texts taken in the fame Notion (or fence) ? 1 ann fure I need not ask this of you as to the fence of prophanc Authors, whoufe the word for any fort of Concilium. cMtus, contio,congregatioy cmvivia^ as in Lucian., Vemofiheuet, Arijhtle^ T'hucidides.^c. '

3. If you will pardon me for felling Men in-Pxintfoofren, i\\\t ^ Church \s comtitured not «'n'y for Communion \n Worjhip, but alfoin Dc5rz«e, and holy hiving^ I win not ask you, why you diflcmbl^d this } nor why you would intimate the contrary to your Readers ? RcptOnonis not theleafi fault of my Writings, and all will not prevent the mif-intimatinns even cf fuch worthy Men as you. jldftattfeantuffj, I have repeattd, <hat the Office of the Miniflery ftandethin a lubordination to the three parts of Chrili's Office, Prophetical or Tcu-hirg,Pricftly or Woifhipirg Kingly or Ruling i and thac a particular Churcbi^ air)ciate(i for the ufe and benefit of all three conjunctly. Were you nor wi ling to take notice of this } or not willing chat others (hould take notice o« it > . • .

4. H >w many Writingsof ours have told the World, that w^ ^jfpre^rwff not the Notion of the Church to a particular Congregation. Do not my Books which you cite, copioufly exprcfs the contraiy > Do we not over and over tcli Men, that the word [Church'] muft be confidered as equivocaly gemri" cal, zv)d fpecifica^ ? Do wc take [the HolyCatbolickChurch~\ in the Creed {01 zpfrticular Congregation? Worthy Sir, this is unworthy dealing, whether it be by ignorance, negligence, rafhnefsor wilfulncfs. We diliinguifh between Cburchfj of G'^6*s hdiiniion., and of Man's Invention. And of the firft fort, whzi hdcf indent is there that holdeth not zuVniverfal Church zt leaft, bcfide particular Congregations? And of Man's making, who can number the f^rts that are and may be made ?

5* Did you ever know Min. ( fave fuch Conformifts as he that anfwered my Plea) whether Greel^^y fjp'tiU EpifcopaU Trejbyterian. Independent, or Anabaptijiy who dinieth a CWc/? B»;»^, that uiiitcth them whin the Congregation is difmifs'd ? All conftfs that the Union of the pars regeui and pars fuhdits for Cburcb-endt doth make it a Church. And who doth not difiingu fh bctwccQ the ConjUtution and Adminifirationy the Statin and the Exercitium ?

4 How then could you fav, [^Jf thU he true^ the Church mnji be dijfolved mfoan at tbt Congregation it brnj^n up ] ? What (hew is there of fuch a con-fequcnce? What it wt held that the Church were fo called bardy in relation to Publick^Worfhtp ^ doth it follow that this Relation ceafcth as foon as the feveral A(3s ot Worlhip ceafe? Their mutual confcnt, and the union of the Woifbippcrs, Prielt and People alTociaied for that ufe, may continue

\^8 Richard Baxter'/ Anjwtr^

tinue whea the AA *oP'W«IHip is iate^mUted. May it not continwa Sbool, when the Boys go home, or play ? May it not be a Parliament when the Houfe is rifen, tho it be only for the work of alTembled Men that they are related and denomidated ?

7. But Sir, do you not confeG, even in your IrtenicoHi where you maiQ^ fain that neFoxrn of Church-Government is of Divine command; i. That God hath commanded that there be Affemhliis ordinarily ufed for his Woifliip. 2dly, And that Paftors are to be the Guides and chief Managers cf this Worfliip. 3dly, And that they fliould be alfo their Teachers. 4thly, And that they govern them by their Keys. And if all this be true then fuch AJfemhlies are of Divine Inftitution» not fuch as are afTociatcd' only for Worftiip, but for VoUrine^ U^orjhipy and holy Livings under, the Teaching and Condu<3: of their Paftors. H you deny that fuch Churchet as we call ? articular,ixc of Divine Inftitution, we haveoften pioved if,though -few Chriftians deny it, or need any proof.

And it is fo oft repeated in the Books which you cite, that I muft fuppofe you know it, though you fecm to dilTonble it, that the Definition which I give of fuch a Church doth make the Terminus to be {not the whole Church meeting at one time and place, but) perfonal, prefeMtial Communionin Doctrine, Worftiip, and Holy Converfation, as diftind frqai abfent Communion by Delegates or Letters only. Your Parifti is aiTociated for fuch -perfonal prefential CommunioHy and yet they naeet not all at once, but(bme one day, and fome another, and fomenot at all, which is a fault iH exercittOy but ovcrthroweth not the being of the Churchy while it is per-fonal frefent Communion which they affociate for and profers,and that ftatcs the Church-relation* And they meet not all in one place, but (bme in the Biftiop of Ely's Chappely (and it is pity but you had many more ) » and yet Chapjfelr of Eafe confift with fome Obligations on the whole Parifh ortjint-lily, to have per vices {omttvoat perjonal Commnmon in the P^rifti Church.

If you would have told us plainly, that Parifti-Churches are no Churches, or that God never ordained fuch fingle Churches as are affociated for perfonal Communion in Prcfence, in Doctrine, Worfliip, and ConverfatioQ, wMch have their proper Paftors, we Qiould have known what to fay to you* jBaC if you deny not fuch, ( which we undertake fully to prove) ^J^inly coii-feis their Co«/^it«rio«, Worth, and Privileges, and we (hall readily next debate the Cale with you, how far Men may affociate thefe into larger Churches qf anotherj^fwV/. But ftill we fay, that as Families ceafe not to be Families, when they arc combined into a VillageyOt City »no more 60partieularChHrche/ k)fe their Conftitution or Adminiftration by being affociated into any lawful -larger Churches.

5^. 25;

^ Dr. )killingfleet s Sit^n. ^g.

^.'2$. Serm. ^[_Andif thre beofteCatbolick^Churcbconfillmg^of multitudef

* df pariieuhr Chttrchcs^ coftfentitig in one Faiths then tphymay there not be one

* National Church from eonfent in the fame Articles ? dec. ]

yinf. It I pray confcfsiirft, that your Nationaldoth confift of a multitude ofCuch-porticular Cbtircffeto(God*s In(Utution, and cannot dcftroy them or their Power and Privileges: Secondly> And once tell us what you mean by a National Church, whether Regal or Sacerdotal. If you mean a Cbrijiian Kingdom, who denies it: If you mean all the Churches of a Kingdom aflb-ciated for Concord as Equals, we deny it not. If you mean that the Nation muft be one Church, a^ united in one Sacerdotal Head, pcrfonal or col-Icdive, Monarchical or Ariftocratical, we muft have further fatisfa6lion about this : Firft, whether it be of Divine or of Humane Inftitution > Secondly, whether (if humane) its Power be from the Prince, or from the coHJent of the particular C1iutches> Thirdly, what it is empowered to do ? I. Not to make neceffiry Laws for the Churches of the fame fort with ChrilVs already made. 2. Not to crofs any of his Laws. 3. Not to dc-ftroy any Privilege of the particular Churches inftituted by Chrift. 4. But if it be only to determine of fuch Circumftances as the Chriftian Prince may determine of, we fhall obey them as his Oificers.

And now to your "[ 1f^)y not ? ] I anfwer. Man is not God. God tfrade tbe Form of the Vniverfd Church, of which the particular are parts i whofe Form alfo is of his making t And if God hatbmade National Regent Churcber asdiftind ixxam^lhrijHa-n Kingdoms and CammoHtvealthr^w^ will obey them i if not, we muft know what Men made them, and by what authority, and whether God authorized them thereto i if not, your [_ IVby not ] is anfwercd.

^. 26. Serm. p. 18. \_Nay, if it be mutual Confent and Agreementppbich ' make a Church, then trhymay not Nittimal Societies agreeing together in the fame

* Faith.and ttndtr the fame Government and Vifcipline^ be as truly and preferiy a

* Church as any particular Congregation ?

Anf. X. It is only de nomine or de re that you ask? Ude nomine, we grant you, that a Parliament, an Army may be truly called Ecclefia '■> i(de re^ we grant you that it is truly a Church of another kind, 2. Mutual Confent ttiakes a Church, hut God^sCtnifent or iMjiitntion muft go firft to warrant that Confent, and make it a Church which he will own : Elfe mutual Confent may mak^ it but Jeroboam^s Church, 01 a falfc and finful Policy. Prove, if you can, that God hathauthori7cd Men to make as many new Church-Species, Policies 01 Forms as they pleafe j or any agalnft, or above, or equal to thofc of his Inftitution, bdides Magijiraey,

' .. s ,, .. :. .J.,., ......) ;.. , ,

§. 27«Scrm. p. 19. lyhy many of thefe Cities^ united nnder me civil Govern* ment^ and the fame ^ulet of ether Religion^ (hould not be called om National Churchy I cannot underhand : vphich makes me vponder at ibofe vphojay they cantut tell what ace mean by the Cbttrch of England : Sicnleg. Ddeit. p 3f« ^

Anfw. I. Admiratio eft ignorant'n : i am asignoiant of you, a? you are of me i therefore may anfwtr wondering with wondering* i.Tnat fjch a Man (hould not know the reafon, when I fo plainly and diUiii<illy wrote it down. 2. And thit while you wonder, you (hould not vouchfafe to give me the leaft means of Satisfadion. For I fuppofe few will think that you do fo much as attempt ir here. 3. You make ftill as if the Controvtrile were dti neminey what ir m^y be aalledj ; when I only fpake de re^ and bid you call it-wbatyoHVoilly if you willbut fell us. your meaning. 4. Yea in my PJta (e(ft. 4, 5. and in the Addition : I fully (hewed what we grant de re^ & de mml' «p, and what wc deny i and what the (late of our Contr/ivcrlie is; and do you think to (atisBe us, aftei all x^DJi^.mtii jVondering thft wg un(^(land 091. what you mean>. •. ; J r.;;i'o J. '' ■• '. ' 1 .• b.. ■ ' - ' "f'..:

ijj. .28. Serra. £/«7&3r/-, ir? wftfw, that Society of Chrijiian Tesple^ xvbich ift ^thit Nation are united undsr the javfe Vrsftjjion of Faiih^ the Jame LatPi,of * Government, and Rules of Divine Worfljip, ] . ', .^

Anftv. And will not they, that know not your Heart any otherwife than by fuch Words, deride us, if we (hould pretend by thefe Words, to bq ev^t the nearer under(tanding your Rcfolution of the Controvetfic ? : f/./, 1

I. The efTential con(titutiye Parts of a political Society are the Fars rtgeks &parsfnbditj(iS\S3i{6nCiid*) And here is no mention of the R^g^wi ^uri at all ; can any Man tell by this whether it betheKwg,or a CUrgy Heady that you take to be the Con(titutivc Head ?

*. Laws znd Rules are part of the Adminiftration^znd out c^ucftion is of the Con^itution. Is this then any. fatisfying Defini-ion ? <

3. The Papifts by this Definition are the National Church [jthey are a Society o(Chriftian People^ rvhich in thU Nation ar« united under the fume Vrofejjion of Faith, the fame Lavos of Government, and Rules of Divine ff^orfitip ~j viz. Fa" pal. If you Cay, they are not all the Nation. I anfwer, i. nor doth your D hnit;-on require it. .2. To«,are not all*

If you fay that they are not the major part,-1 anfwer, f. Whether you are! know not. 2. In Ireland tbieysiiCy and fo are there the National Chuith by your Detinition.' i

If you fay that you mean the Laws of Xjw/w/ Governoqrs. I anfwer^ i.The Papifis take the Pope for their Lawful Governour : 2. If a UUirpcr get FofTcdion (as K Stephen^ and many others) is the National Church then dead or nul! ? 3. There is no mention oilarfful in your DcHnition.

4. ,But though you will not tell us whether you mean Divine or Humane

Laws

I

L "

Lawstnd Hftles^yctl vmy confidently con je<f\u re that it is HumtiMe you mzan: for clfe, 1. I am cf the fame National Church that you arc ; y.a if I prove that I am more conformable to God's Laws than you and fuchasyou,! (hali prove that it will be a harder qucftion whether y nu are of the Church of En^, than whether I am. 2. And you might kno(.v that fuch a Church we no more deny than you do ('at leaft) 5. But then it can be but fncere (not perfe(fi) Obedience to God's Laws and Rules, which murt: prove one to be of this Church; or elfe no Man is of it. And then you mu > (hew us whether a miflakc in as fmall a matter as Meat and Drink, or a Ceremony, orLitur-gick Form, or Dioccfan order, do cut one ofF from that Church. If yea, than how much more would fuch Conformity to fin do it ? which wc fear.

But fuppofing that'you w.^m Humane Laws. 5. Why may not Divine Laws make a Church ? ff Humane Laws were neceflary ad he^ie cjfc, the. Chriliians that I have read and convcrft with, think that they are not neceflTa-ry to the Being of a Church tn fen/n famsfiore', why then fhould they be in the Definition, and only they ?

6. But the difficulty recurreth as to Humane Laivs^ which of them arc neccflTary to the Ba^'g of the Church : For your Definition dirtingiiifhcd not: The King hath great and excellent Laws which we all conform to : Doth not our Conformity to thcfe feem to prove us of the National Church, though we conform not to your Formalities and Oiths and Ccrcmonies?Im-perfe<n Obedience fervcth to continue men Subjeds to the King: It is not every Drunkcncfs, or Oath, or Fornication, much Icfs the mifs of a Complement or Ceremony, that makes a Man a Rebel or an Outlaw : Why then (hould the refufai of a Prelates Subfcription or Formality unchurch a foOnd and honed Chridian ?

7. And if the humane Laws and Ruks which you mentioned (whatever you mean by them)be fubordinate to God's LawSjand Co be honeft, good and obligatory, why fhould they cut off thofc from the Church which Chrift's Laws cut not off; yea which (thrift receivcth and commandcth us to receive ? Receive him, for Goei receiveth him: and, receive him as Chrtfi recciveth MS, (notwithftandingour Infirmities) were good reasonings in St. PauPs Judgment, which I prefer before any Bifhopsthat know.

8. And a Man of lefs Acquaintance or Wit than you. caiinot be ignorant, what abundance of Differences there are among your felvcs. I hjvc -named you no fmall number in my 2d Plea ; feme of you are hot againfl thir uhich is called ArminMinfm, and fome hot for it: fome are for Bi'fh>ps and Presbyters being of one Order, and fom-' of c'ivcrs: all are not of the mind of the Bifhop oi Hereford ih^t. wrote Naked Trkth-Som^(s^tn oifhops) think that the damnatory part of Athai.ifn'i's Creed is not approved by Conformity: others, think thH it is all to be approved: A multitude fuch

f diflPcrcnccs

differences there arc among your felves : And why ihould not this as much unchurch fomc of you, if it be \hcing Hf.der the famt Laws'} that makcth you one Church, as the forbearing of a Declaration of AfTcnt and Confent, orofa Surplice, &c.

p. Efpecialiy tell us, whether the Conformift's difference about the Cfl«-JiitHtive Regent P^rt of the Church of £^>'^/*«/?^,fome being for one fpeciis^ and feme for another^ do not plainly make t^lem to be of two dtflinit Chu does of jE/;^/*i//^,and further diffw'rent from each ther than we arc from any part. Wc jultly fay the Papifls, who are for tvpo /pedes of Sovcraigns, fomc for the F>pej and fome for a general Council, are plainly of two Churchrs: for the regent part is ciTential. And I am furc that one part of the molt Eminent Difputcrs for the Church of EngLa-nd and Conformity, fay that the King is the ExtraneoHs Civil Governour,but the Bifhops arc the Conjiitiitwe EJfcnnal Internal Covernohrs oi the Church as a Church; and that if the Bifhops command che ufe of one Tranflation, Vcrfion, Metre, Liturgie, and the King another, we are to obey the Bifliops, andnot the King: And tha the efficient caufe of a National Church, is the Bifhops Agreement among thcmfclvcs to affjciate into fuch a Church. And others fay, that it is the King and his Laws, that are the efficient of fuch a Church, andare to beob'-ycd in matter of the Circumftances of Worfhip, c^c. before the Bifhops. Can you prove that this difference between the Conformifts, about the very Confti-lutive Regent Power, is not greater than Mens differences about a Ceremony or Form? and doth not more to make them to be of two Chur-che> ?

JO If all this confufed ftir be but about a Chr/'fiian Kingdom, be it known £0 you,that wc take fuch to be of Divine Command : And i f you kftow it rl&t, or diffcmble it, after I have faid To much of it, in the firil Plea, and clftr-vvhere, I cannot help that, viz.. if you will talk pubiickly againft what you know^ or know not when told, bccaufe you will not know. But 1 have rhejse largly told you, what the Power of Princes about Church matters is, whiclrif you will not read, I will not repeat.

■"■'l \K Yc^ur Words [_ Lam and Rules} would induce one to think that you joyncd the Kings Laws and the Biflwfs Canons together in your meaning, as the bond of Unity. If fo, is it two forts of Governours, (by the Sword, and by the Word, Magiftrates and Pa/iors) which you take for the conflitutive regent parts of the Chuich ? If fo, then either in Coordi-nation oiid Coalition, or in Subordination. The firft cannot be, that the two Species in Coalition fhould make one Head, unlefs both uere in the King as Perfona Mixta, both Lay and Clergic, as fome affirm him to be like Melchiz.edeck : But this both King and Clergie difown. Nor can the fccon.l be, bccaufe a fubordinate Power is not cffeniial to the whole body politick;butonly thefupreme.AndtheMagifhacyandMiRiftryarecoordinatc

Species

to Dr. 5cilliiigfleet'y Scrmo}f. a\

Species, both depending immediately on God, and Subordinate Mutually only SccimdHni (juid : Nor is ibc Lcgiflativc power in EngUna any other than one, which is in ihc Ktnj and Parliament conjunrt. The Bifhops Cannons are not Laws E'yifdem Speciei; till the Kif/g and Pa hamcnt make them fuch. If this be your Judgment, there are I think but few Co'jfcrrr.ijls of your mind.

12. I muft Conjc<f\ure therefore by your words, That the Laws and Rules which you define the Church by, arc the Laws of the/<r;>7^ and Parliament ; and that it is the Civil Chriftian Sovereign that you take for the Conftitutive Head of that National Church which ^ou plead for; or clfc 1 know not whattoCon-je(f^ure. And if this be ycur Meaning, 1 add to what isfaid: I. Eraftians have hitherto been didafted by the Bi^iops, and t doubt they will by this take you for fomewhat worfe.

2. What doth your National Church differ from a ChriJ}i4n Kingdom, which we deny not.?

I. Do you think there is no other iS'pecies of a Church, bc-fides that which is Conftituted by the Chridian Magiftratc as Head.

1. All the Chridian World, as far as I can learn by Hidory (no confiderablc part excepted) have been in all Ages, and to this Day arc of another mind. And who then is the great Noaconformifl and Scparatifi^ You or I ; if this be yourmnd.?

2. The Magidracy, and Paftoral Office aie of different Species : Therefore the Churches Condituted by their Regency arc of different Species.

3. Conflantines \voxdi% have hitherto been commonly received. That He ('and fo Chridian Kings) was BiJJjop without the churchy and the proper Pifiop within: that is, That he was the Governour of the Church, by the Sword, as the King is of all Schollars, PhyTtians, Families, cj-c. but not the Governour by the Wurd and Keys? as the King is not a School-Madcr, Phyfirian, or the formal Specifying Governour of School Col-ledge, Family, as fuch. Bifhop Bi.'fon^ o( SkbyH-ion, mod clearly opencth the diffvrence, and I think Chridians commonly a-gree to it; between the CtHce of Governing by the Svpord^ and by the Word^ even about the Church it folf.

4. Ghrid fctlcd immediately the Padoral Office, and did not leave it to Princes to make it: And He fettled Churches under the Padors, when there w re no Chridian Princes; And when the E'npercurs became Chridians, they never took themfelves to be the intrinfick GonHitutivc Rc^ors of the Churches, but

F 2 Acci-

Accidental Heads, as is aforcfjid. And all the Councils, and their Canons fully fhew, that the BtJIiopsv^eic (\i\\ ol this mind. And our greateft Defenders of the Fowcr of Piinccs, Bilfon, A"drev[s, Bniktridge, SpaUtenfn^ &c. were of the fame mind, and afcribe to them no more.

5. Elfe Heathen, and ir.fidcl Princes might be EfTmtial to the Church in the Go pel-Notion: For they are the Gover-nours of it by the Sword, and may pclTibly by the Counce! of Chriftians, make them as good Laws as many Chriftian Princes do. Julian made no great Change of the Church-Laws.

But I Labour in vain, in proving that there is a Sacerdotal or Clergy Chnrch Form or Spectes-^ for I fuppofc ) ou cannot deny it; and if you do, few others will. 1 fuppofe it is only the National-Form^ which you take to be Conftituted by a Lay-Head. But few Chriflians will deny, That the Sacercotal or Clergy-form of a particular Church, is of Divine inrtitu-tion; and that Men have not power to deftroy that Form; or change the Office there, Inftituted by the Holy Chofl. Though the Forms of Affociated Churches, Diccefan, Metropolitan/, Vro^ vincial. Patriarchal, are judged by very many, to be of Humane Invention: And what Man may make, Man on good Reafon may unmake or alter. But if you grant us the Divine form before mentioned; I (hall Grant you that a Natio' r.al Church is alfo of Divine Command; if you mean but a Chriftian Kingdom. But when one Form is Denominated from the PafioralOjfice related to the Flock, and the other from the .Afapjlrates Office: What hath a Man that can undcrftard the State of the Controverfy, to do here; but to fhew what is t''i]C Pafioral Off'ce towards the Church, and what is the Map-Jirates ? For fure they are not the fame. And yet bccaufe that it is the Pafioral Form which the word \ChHrch'\ denoteth in the ftrid and ufual Chriftian Scnce: Our Sovereignes in Eng-Und, to avoid the Papifis Exceptions, have forfakcn the Title of [^Head of \.\\t Church'] left they (hould feenci to claim a Con-ftitutive Hcadfhip of a Church flricfily taken, and ufe only the Terra £ Govemcur. ] Even as Chrifi is faid by St. Paid^ Eph. j, to be Head over all things. To the Church £Ovcr and To] much differ.

And I yet fee not why on the fame Reafon that we call a Chriftian Kingdom, or Republick a National Church-^ we may not alfo call London, Toth, &c. a City.Church, as Headed by .ihe Mayor, as the Chridiati Magiftratc, and fo talk of Provincial^

ctal, ConfnUr, and Troconfular Churches^ M«narchicat, jififit-crate al, Dtmocratkal Churches'^ and make all the Controver. fies £.vhich Church-Form is bcft] as Politicks do what Form of a Cotnmon-Wealth is bcfl.

And thus they that chide the Independents for -making the People Govcrnours of their little Congregations (which I think yet moft of them difclaim^ do this way quite exceed them in Popularity, and in Democrattes, will make the People Go-vernours of all the Churches, even National induaing the particulars. For I fuppofe they will not fay, that Denjocratuaf, Civil Government is unlawfull.

And whereas Cyprian faith: Vbi EpifcopHs^ ibi Ecclef^a; you will fay. Where the Mayor or Bayliff '\S, there is the Church, But I trow the Btjlwp of London beleivcth that the c is anorner fort of London-Chnrch-Form, befidcs my hoxd-Mayors Relation to them. But what abundance of Church'tortns, Su-prcam and Subordinate may diverfity of Magirtracy make?

^. 29, Serm p. 19, \_l do not intend to fpeak^ of the Terms upon which Perfons are to be admitted among us to the Exercife cf the funtlion of the Mmiflry-^ but of the Terms cf Lay-Com-munion, /'. e, thofe which are nectjfaryfor Perfons to joyn in our Prayers and Sacraments., and other Offices of Divine Wor~ Jl.up.

yiffw. 1. But your work would have been done more cf-fedually if you had begun at the part which you intend not to fpeak of: I fupp:)fc it is not for want of Charity^ nor Concern, that you intend it not^ and therefore, fuppofe that fome-body elfc will do it at laft. I have heard of fome above your order, thanc^-uld better fpare the Nonconfor^ning M\n'i(\cTs th;in ihc People; and faid plainly> that they incrcafed the Impofiti-ons, becaufe they could do better without us, than with us : And fome have faid, If this will not caft them out, more (Lall do it. 1 take it for granted, that this pretermitted part ofyci>r Work, is indeed, the All that you have to do, in the vV'orks of /iccufih'g, and Affli(fling the Nonconformijis-^ and till this be done, (he red of your Accufations will confute themfelves; and I doubt net but it w ill be attempted; and if it be truly, and fatisfadory, I will give you thanks.

2. Your Term of {_Lay-Comm!i'non~\ remcmbreth mc, that if (qlS you fccm) you EjJ'tntiate your Church of EngLind by a Lay-Ruler, ond his Laws, viz^. the Ki?ig, and the Laws made by him for Religious Government; the People that you accufc are no 5cparati(ls, though they Separate ftom the Dicccf.im ?

be-

bccaufe they hold this Lay-Commumon-, that is, though they are not pcrfc^ly Obedient, they a^e fubjecfts of the LAy-Lc vcrnour^ and fo Members of the Kingdom, which is the Nati-cnal'Church.

3. .-^nd as to yo\ix LayCcmmHniori here fpoken of, So far as it ts Lawful, where you have Preach'd or Written for it once, I think, I have done it many times: I fliall be far from Con-\ £radi(^ing you in that.

(^ 50. Sermon p. 20 £1 wiO not fay^ there hathbiena great denl of Art njcd to corfound thtfe two {arid it ts eafy to dif-cern to what furfofc it is.)

An[w, I. I have not Art enough well to reconcile your Ne-^ativcy and your Parenthejis, which intimateth an /.ffi mation: If you will not fay fuch Art was ufid-^ how^ can ^ou intimate \jo Ychat purpofe tt*j iifed.2 Can you tell fo eafily why it was done, and not tell that indeed it w-ts done at all ? But perhaps you can tell^ though you will not. 1 would fatn know why: No man that Reads your words, can well believe that it is through the redundancy of your kindnefs.

2. Forgive this Truth: Of all Men that have Written a-gainfl Nonconformity, I rtmcmber few that may, worfc than you fpeak againrt: CONFOVNDlNG-, as 1 fhall further prove.

3. If I be one of thofe that you fpeak of. Confounding is not the greateft fault of your words ; while it is vifible that in my firft Plea I diftindly enumerated the Cafe of the Nonconformity of the Laity and the Clergy. And I fpeak by confent for many of my acquaintance. And I am likcft to be meant by you, be-caufe divers others, that go farther from you. take Lay-conformity

• to be unlawful, and largely give their reafons for it. How then did ycu expc(n to be believed when our Books arc in fo many hands ?

4. None are fitter Judges of Arts, than the moftcxercifed Artificers : l( you are skili'd and cxcrcifed in fuch Arts your felf, you may the e;ifi!er difcern both the Art and purpofe. And yet we are fo ncer our felves that I cannot cafily believe that you know my Arts _or purpofes fo well as I do my felf.

5^ 3 I. Serm. [^ J dare fay the People's not midtrflanding the difference of thefc two Cafes hath been a great occafon cftheprcfent Jfparation ~\

A'fw. No doubt but there is a great difference between the Mi-

nil'.ers G'jfe of Conformity, and the peoples, which makes fomc

of t^cm think much worfc of a Conforming Minillcr, than of a

•Conforming Lay-man: which fheweth that the difference .s not

wholly

wholly unknown to them. But I think I have done more to acquaint them with the difference, than you or any of your tribe have done.

5^ 32. Serm. £^ For in the Judgment of the mofi impartial ^nen

* of the Dtjftntcrs at this day, though they thinkjhe Cafe of the Alini-

* lien very hard on the account of SuhfcriptionT and Declarations

* reejtured of theWf yet they confefs, very little is to be faid on the

* behalf of ihe People, fro/n whom none of thofe t hinrrs are rcquired.'l^

A^'f 1. This is but fuch Confufion as conftitutcth this Scrmoni We think that nothing of truth can be faid for any of the People's errors; no more than for the \_very hard'} and finful cafe of our ' fclves if we fhould Conform: If any go one (lep too far from you, they are unjuftiBable therein: But we have fhewed thofe that will fee, that much may be faid on the People's behalf for much of their Nonconformity, and alfofor fuchaffemblingas you call fcparation

2. And furcly if you had the due fenfe of your Brethrens Cafe, of your Own Cafe, and of the Kingdoms Cafe, you would perceive how ncccffary rhe forbearing of the impofuion of t\\o(c very hard th'Hgs is to thehralingof that which doth ofTcnd you ^ and to greater ends than that.

}> 3 3! Seim. [So that the People are condemned In their fcparation by their own teachers-^ But how they can preach lawfully to a People who commit af^nlt in hearing them^ J do not trnderJiand.'Ji

u4nf 1. The People that arc guilty of any finful feparation arc reproved by us^ but not thofe that feparate no further than ia tlieirduty. In mvfir;i/'/f<» 1 defcribcd no Icfs than ^o Cafes in which fcparation is a lin; and neer 40 Inflances in which fomc reparation is a duty or no fin : And of all this you here take no notice, and tofs the hare conf"ounding name oi Separation, as if the Sound ought tooffright men from nil that you are ajainlT:; fure vou could never think that we had Brains or Confcicnces, if fuch dealing fhould pafs for TitisfrAory v ith us: Can any man tel' by this bart- Name^ or any thing in your Book, what that Separation is which you condemn. The word Htrefic with a Papift, and the word [Separation^ and H^ihffm] with P-rfie Cor,;ormifts, feem to be terms of Art: But whar art is it ? "i^re it is not the Cnrte-fun nor the Epicurean Fhilofophy, w^ich layeti fo much on Atjmes and Monon: \ cannot Imagine what Conrtxture of A-tones fhould caufc the Sound of rhc word {^'^epuration'} or {Sch!fm~\ to make fuch a motion as fhould drive men out of their Religion and Wits. I am not fo hapry as to be an Academical Graduate J but 1 have lorig ago icad LnHifss and many of his

Com-

-4'?' Richard Baxter's Jnfwer

Commentators \ and I find no PhHofophy more likely, to lay much on the Power of words ; except that which we call Migick or Charming. For my part, I was born with a Difeafe (if it be fuchj thathateth Gonfufion and Dectit, and inclincth mc to luring thing: into light, and to difccrn betvA-ecn things that differ. And if you Do(flors have learned the Art of Reducing a Sy/logtrm into a Simple terme or Name^ it is quite above my kind of Learning: I fuppofeit is fucha Logicalcontra^cd Syllogifm that you intend: But a> jl^ort writing called CharaUcrs though expeditious, is hard to be read by others; fo your contracted Syllogifm, in the name [Sff^r^rro^^and^Sc^c///*] will be moje ufcfu! to you and yours, than to ftrangers that never faw your heart. If "offulnefs and Vfedncfs, even by fome of the Reverend, may afford us a Pro-g-noftick, I may conjcaure that even Lying (andorherneceffary arts) are afctnding in hope to be placed among the Cardinal virtues, and thofe that fcruplc it, may be numbred with Schifma-ticksj Separatifts, and Rogues.

$. 34. if I would here again tell you what Separation I take to be lawful, and what unlawful, and defire you to define that which you accufe mc of,I may exped that in your Reply you will diffem-ble it; But I will trie you with a few inftances of one fort, and defire you to tell me which it is that you mt an.

L Do you think that he is a Separati/t that meeteth not in the fame Parifh-Church with you ? No fure: For then you are one to others, and other Pariflies fuch to you.

IL Is he a Scparatift that liveth in your Parifh, and ordinarily meeteth not in your Temple, but another allowed place? If fo, the Bifliop of Elf is a Separatill in your Parifli, that keepeth a Meeting in his Chappel when you Preach. Ifnotfo, when wc had the Kings Licenfe at leaft, the place made Us not Separatifls.

III. Is every one a Separatlft thatdiffcreth from you in Doiftrine, in puWick Preaching.? If fo, are you not Separatiflsonc from another, when one Preacheth for that which is called, Abfolutc Elecfti-on. Reprobation, Univerfal Redemption, Free-will, Falling from juftific^tion, the morality of the Sabbath, &c. and others againft thcfe? If not; Is not difference in fuch Dod^rinci, as great a difference, as ufcing and not ufeingfime of your Liturgick Forms and Ceremonies ?

IV. Are all different modes of Worfhip enough to m.^ke our Party Separatifn ^ Then the French and Dutch Churches are Scpara-tiils, and cither the Carhedr Us or the Parifh-Churches, as to their Vel^uicnts, Organs, Chore, mode ofSinging, &c. And the allowed private Baptifmes and Communion with the fick, are Separations. V. Doth

V. Doth every difobedicncc to the King, and Laws, and Canons in matters of Religion, Government and AVoifh'p, make men Se-paratills? If fo, then when ever a. Coi^fofmifl difobedicntly fhoit-neth his Common-Prayer, or leav,etn off his SgVplicc, or giveth the Sacrament to one that knceleth not, or receivctji onjs.W" another Parirti to Camraunion,. c^c. -he is a ScparatiH. Yea, no Man then is not a Separatill fomctimes,

V r. If the Diocefanc be the lowed political Church and a Parifh but a part of a Church, as thev hold t'^at take a Bt,(hop to be a Conrtitutive part; how is he (aid to fcparatc from the Church that owneth hisDiocefane and ihc Dioccfs, what ever place in that Diocefi he mcetin, feeing he fcparateih not from the Kingdom that rtaveth in it, andovvncth thcKmg, though in fome acf^s he difobey ? Nor doth every Boy th^t isfaulcy, fcparate from the School. ,, ",^ ^,', ■'•' J,

V H. Is he Q greater Scparatifl thaf confcflreth you to be; a true Church, and your Communion la'A/ful/but preferreth another as fitter for him; or he that denieth Communion with true worfhip-ing aflcmblies as unlawful to be Communicated with,when it is not fo. If the former, then Condemning you as no Church is a d'-^ minutionor no aggravaion of Separation, and the Local prefence of an Infidel or a Scorncr would be a lefs feparate ftate, than the abfencc of your Friends. If the latter fwhjch is certain) then if 1 can prove the AfTcmblies lawful which you condemn, you are the true Separatifts that condemn them, and deny Communion with them, and declare fuch Communion to be unlawful. I ,Cojnimunicate with your AfTemblies, and you utterly fhun, refufc and condemn Communion with ours; which then is the Scpara-tirt:, if I prove ours to be as good as yours?

V 1 n. Many Englifh Dodors fay, Rome is a true Church, as a Knave or Thief is a true man, and we feparatcd not from It, but they caft Us out fordoing our duty, and not finning as they do. I fay. not as they ('for as ihe Pope claimeth iheHeadfhipof the Church Univerfally, that form of Policy is not of God, ani we fcparatc from that cflTential form of their pretended Church :) But ad homi-nsm if the Dioccfine alfo be a true Church, and wc calt out of it for not finning, are We feparatifls, or are our Eje(ftors fuch }

I X. i have fh,c.wc4 V^^ ^^"^^ ^^. ^^'^'^'^^ Excommunicate iffo fa^lo all that fay ,the impofcd Conformity isunlavvful If this be unjuf^, is it Separittio-fj to be fo Excommun'catcd } and who is the Schifmatickhere? And what fhiU be thought of fu h Church men as will firft if Jo fdig Excommunicate us for om duty, and then- as

G yoo

you do.caU us Scparati.^s. Would you have Excommunicate Men, Communicate with you? I (and many) do fo, becaufe you fhal^ be the Executioners of your own fcntcnce. and not I: But with what face can men cart M n out by Canon ipfoftSi'o.sind then revifc them for not coming in. You can mean no other in common fenfc, but that we are Schifmaticks or feparatifts, bccaufc we arc not of the Conformifl's judgment: And that is not in our power: And you differ more in judgment in greater matters from each other • and yet call it nit Schifme or Separation. Yea yoo differ about the very cfTntial form of your National Church, one part taking it to be the Kmgs fupremacy, and another to be the Bifhops or C'crgy's Po ver: And therefore you cannot be truly of one National Church, that are not for one cflential Form.

X. If men be wrongfully Excommunicate, arc they thereby abfolvcd from all publick Worfhipping of God? or dothcylofc their Right to aU Church-Communion? I have elfe-where cited you Canons enow that fay thccontrary, and that C/<i^'<r Errantc the Excommunication hurteth none but the Excommunicator: And I have Cited Bifhop TaiUr's Full Confent. Muft we not then Meet and Worfliip as we can, when you wrongfuHy Excommunicate us?

XI. Arc not the Laity, by your Canon, forbidden to Receive the Sacrament in another Parifh? or anv other to receive them, if they dare not Receive it from a Non-Preaching Miniler at Home? And if the People jurige, that he that is unabte or unwilling to Preach, or that is a//frfr/Vi^, orthatiiveth jn fuch heinous Sins, or Preacheth Malignantly, as to do more Harm than Good, may not hwfuUv be owned by them for Chrt/r's Minifters, nor their Souls be Committed to their Pafta-ral Truft ; Mufl: they therefore be without a Paftors Care, or all Publick Worfli'p and Communion, and be Condemned for being Wronged?

X ir Were all thofe CoundhSeparatifls, that Decreed, That none (hill hear Mfs from a Fornicating Pried ?' And, Were the Canons called the Apoftles, and the Greek-C^Kivch thnt u-fed them, for Scparationv that faid, £EptfcopHj tgnorautia ant maid animo oppletHSy non efi Epifo'pHS, fed falfus Epifcopus^ non 4 Deo^ pd ab hominibus pronto'HS? \ W: s Guildas a Sfparatift that told'the Brittifli Wicked Prierts, That they wer<* not Chnji*s Minifters, but.Traitours?' and that he was not Eximius C'ri. fliamsy that would call them Priefts, or Minifters of ChnJ}? Wire CyprUrf, and alhthc Carthage ^CoHncil^ Sc]p^nti(iSf that

wrott

to Dr. Stillingfleet's Sem^^ru ^^\

wrote the Epiiile about Martial, and BafiUdes, whichi Tranlla-ted; and told the Pcop'e, It was their Duty to Sepaatc from Ptic^iiore Prapofiroy a Scandalous ['relate? and that the Ghirf Power was in them, t.>C(o^fcthc Worthy, or Refufe the Uii-worchv? and thai they nerc guilty of Sin, if they joyncd with fuch sinners? Wfio made fou a more Reverend and Credible Judge of Scparution, than Cypna>j, and this CouicU ? At leaft. Who will think, that you may Judge them Separattp, or guilty of Schtfm .'■

XIII. Arc not the La-ety, by your Canon to be denied the Sacrament, if they be not xvilln'i^ of your Eftfcopal Confirmati" onf And when Impofmon of Hands is made the St^'/ by which Confirming or JJftt ing Grace is conveyed, and Tome Birtiops af-Cgn no lefs to it; they feir, led it be made a Sacrament. Be thcir Doubts juft or not, they cannot overcome them, 'nd, Mud they therefore Live without S^cM^/jfwf^/Communion? By what

Law?

X IV. Arc not the Laiety, that dare not Receive the Sacra-wr;?? Kneeling, for the Reafons clfe-where mentioned, to be denied the Sacrament h^^o\M^\Ac} And though herein they fear Sin more than they have caufe. Mufl they that cannot Change thcir own Judgments, live all their Days without the Sacrament? When as General Councils Decreed, That none fhould Adore Kneeling on any Lord's Day, and the Church for 3 Thoufa>id Years, praAifed accordingly \ Arc all Separatijls^ that dare not do that in fuchanlnllant, which they judge to be flit Sin; noryetdidcaft off Sacramental Communion f

X V. When the Laiety cannot have their Children Baptized,* without fuch life of the Tranfient Dedicating Image of the Crofs, and fuch Ufe of Entituling and Covenanting God-Fathers^ which, on the Reafons largly given by me, they take to be no fmall fin ; Is it Separation to joyn with Padors, that will otherwife Baptize them ? Arc they bound to fin againft thcir Confciences, or to le-vc their Children Unbaptized ? or, Prefer fuch Paftors as Re-fufe them?

XVI. Is it Separation for men to Refufe Partors that are Ufurpers, and have no true Power over them? Sure it is not to Refu'c an Ufurpcr of the Kingly Power? and. Why then of the Church Power ? Which of the Bifhops thought it any Sin, in the Daycs of Ufurpation, to forfake their Parifh-Churches ? And in my Abridgement of Church-Hifiory, I have cited many Canons, which prove it the Common Judgment of the Church for One Thoafand Years, or near j That he was no IBifhop,

that was not Chofen by the Clergy, and the People; or came in, without the Peoples Confent. And if you will Read a laic Treatife of Father Paid Servita of Venice ('a very Venerably Author) you will fee this at large Confirmed. And, If this btf true, Is it Schifm to take fuch for none of our Paflors? And Patrons choofc Paflors for the peoples Souls, who too often care not for their own: Yea, though they believe not that Man hath an Inrmorta! Soul, their Power of Elc(fting thofc that Men muft.take for the Guides of their Souls, is neycr-tlielefs for their'infidclity: .\Vhat Law of God bindeth all Men to ftand to their'Choice ? How many Hundred Congregations have incumbents, whom the People never confentcd to; but take them for their Hinderers and Burden?

XVII. Difpojitio materia ncccjfaria efl ad Rece^tionem formte: mn.ex^ quovis lig'fio fit McrcuriHs. If a Perfon be uncapable of the Miniiierial'Office, it is no Sin to Judge him no'Minifler» Thpfc-^are^Llncapable, .1. Who have not tolerable Minifterial Kn<3wkd^e iahd Utterance. '2. ^\\o arc Hercticks. 3. Who malignantly Op'pofe feribus Relig'on as Hypocrifie, or a necdlefs Thing! '4. Who, by their wicked lives, do. more Hurt that} they do Good, From fuch, St. P^;//. bids Men'77/r« ave^ij',' that have a Form 0/Godlinefs, but deny the Power. Is i|| Schifm^ to Obey fuch Commands.'* And how great a Numbet of fuch Cafes there are, I need not tell the People.

XVIII. 1 am loth to difpleafe you; and I write not to Ac-cufe ToH^ or other Coriformijis. But as Fanl w^s conftrain^d by Accufers,, t-Q.fpeak ftarpl^ of theni, and like a Fooj'(t-hougK rtot FooUfhlyX.pf ^hiiTJCeir: So you conflrain Us .tb'Tay ■tKaf.in cur o\A/n t)erenfe,' which wil|. ejfafpiTate youj and',, I doubt,' "^ou, cannot cafify beajr. ' And God faih, Thoit Jiialt noj: Hate tWBrother in iby Heart: Thou Jh^lt in any ivife"Rebuke thy jNeizhboHKy and not [KJfer. Sin jifo'ff him. .1 havis told you otil^* liow'many and l^einous |he Srns jarei wh'ich/we feal^'Vc,fh|<i'J'icX be Giii^ty of, fhould' we'Conform.' 'fte'''77?/>/y Ag^raVafi^rfS ^a,mcd,-^f^^rif<^ .^a.re.'jljrgBendous,-* ^^,havc yet heard jrpm' none of ypu-,' arry" thipg which Ibouldexcufe us from' (hdy Guilt,- if we did ■Conform.. AndVif the P.eople think, (though they fhould miftakc)" thzrt all the Conformljis are Guilty of the like:- Cm>ye wonderj, tha^they Pi;p^fer !?/> Guilty F^o'rs^ to ti:u{i; Jthe (^p'n^u(n:j orthe^ir S^^Quls^ syjth ? w^eti '^7.:^,. iV ^hey are'Commanded' to. b.p- followers ..of iheii; Guided .^' ff th'fey miftakc, \_\Cor. 5, Vl^ith fnch mff.o~JE^atj^~^n(}j [FriimfichtUrfi avpny'} Is it Intolerable? - ^ * ' " ■

But

But bear with needful Truth, as toyour fclf. You here wotil^ clifTvc'ade the Noucanforfnijli from their Pijblick Minirtry, and Plead it to be their Sin; By this you own the Silencing and Alienation of about Two Thokfa>}d'Cuch Minillcrs, till they Conform. I ask't you formerly, is it not Sacrilege, to .Alienate Cunjuiily) Devoted, Confccratcd Pcrfons, and worfe than to A-licnate Lands or Monies? And, is it not a HiNderi>ig of Cod'^s Word? for which the Lnnr^ difTvvadcth Men from the Sacr/i^ mrm, left the Devil enter inta them, I only fay, -If McnbeCnul-ti cf this^ (whit?h Tcu think, the Nonccy:for)m(is art, by not Conforming^ andTA^y think, Oxhirs arc.) H you had Robbed Tr7P'/f/«>/^ Churches of the Comnnmion-Platc, or the Glebe-Land, 6x Confentcd to the Doing of it: were it 'cpararion and Shifm for your Parifh to prefer another Pallor of their own Choice ? • Arid vvhert yoi/ Publifh your Confent to the Alienating or Si-Icnting about Tn^j Thoufi'J fuch Minifters, If Men think that you do much worfe than a Thoufand Church Robbers, thorgh they rtiould nViftakc, Is not their Trufting another Pador with'v the C€ndu<fk of their Souls, a tolerable Ihing? Dear Brother, Try to tike off the Byafs of your Judgment, and bear with rtctcffjry Truth, though rough. Though your Logical Faculty i^uh lamentably Low in this your Axufing Ser?mn^ \ impute it to' the Badncfs of your Caitfe. Undoubtedly, you have Learning enough, to know that yc mufl: Die! and that after Deaths Jiidgme-Nt muft be cxpcd^cd ; and that the Time is fhort; and the Faftiion of thefe deceiving Worldly Things, doih pafs a-wtty. And, Can vou-think, thai your Approbation and Endea-vt\sx% to SlTencc 'ii:> many fucH Miniftcrs wh^le your own Experience might toll y6u, That evcK-Tottdo necdi mut:h Help in fuch a Charge as \ou undertake, will be the Matter of a Comfortable Atx^ount? If you think fo. Imuflfdv, That a little f^ber, impar-ri-'al,' btlkving ConfidcratiOn, will ft-^ake a Man Wifor, than flVe Rca^in^ o'f many flookswilh an iiV.humbled, byaffedMind. The Day is coming, wh^n yob- flinll fee,'' that ye were in a better, Taffr wdyi vvho'n-with peaceable Dr.T;liotfa?i, yon feem-id to C^tvfent to the ?1 t-forni of an A (ft for our Concord and iWlo'ra-fidn-f whith marl-e me tell many Parliament Men, {^Refer city Caiifc t'j rhc CcmkclI cf Dr. Tillotfon afid Dr.' Stilling-fftrtj ah^ \^?yhall pytfcntly Ve> Hcdted.'} But, What is Man? il'ftid- ^^1? n^ed have"W€'t6 pray^ Lead us not into Temptd'-

.5^ t^\^ ir'Meh know the ndcd of the full U'e of th: P.t-'ft(iVaHOffict for their Sculs, and cannof fparc it'^ and yet live . '• ' where-

where they cannot Enjoy one Half or Qjarter of it; Ij it Schifmfor them to feck to Enjoy the rcrt ? Dr, tUfwrnna^ in his Annotations, ofc tells us. That the Ojj ce of a Bijhop, waSy To Preachy To Dintl Mens ConJctCKces, lo p'tja and pray with the Stck^j To tak^ Care cf all the Poor, a/id the Alor.eyt vathe-red for them^ To be their Chide m Publick WorJJjip lo txcrcifs Chrift's Difcipline, Admoniflnr)^^ Re'yQwg the Ot/lmate, RcJJo-* ring the Ptrnent, Strengthening the iVeak^y Cornfortmg the yif» fii^edy Refohing the Doubtful, Convthcmg Latn-fajtrSy &C. Some of your molt Peaceable Conformable Htarers t«ll me, [^We have t.etd of a Frequent Helpy by the Company a id LouaceL of a Pafior.J But we never fee him, but in the Pulpit. And if we fhould all go to feck him in anothtr Parifli where he dwells, when ever we need a Payor's Councel, were he at Leifure and willing, he could not have time to fpcak to one of an Hunaered, that might (at once) wait to fpeak with him: So that, we have none of this necelTary Paftoral Help, when we greatly need it. Yea, not the Sixih, or Tenth Part of the Parifh can come to Hear him in the Church. And when We that mofl: defirc it get in, it troubleth us to think, that we thereby keep out thofe that leaft cefue it, but mofl need it: who knowing the Difficulty of getting Room, do ftay at Home, and never fcek it: So that, Five Parts of 5/> of our Neighbours, ufe not to go to any Church at all, no more than Infidels. And if in pity we perfwade them to go to any Noncor/for^mfi^s Meeting, they fay the Clergy will Damn them as Schifmancks, The Queftion now is. Whether Ten Thoufand, or Twenty ThoH' fand in a Parifh, are bound to live without all Private Paftoral Help and Councel; yea, and to forbear all Publick Wor-(hipping ofOtf^, and Hearing of his W'<?rd/.' And, if they leek Relief of Nonconforming Miniftcrs, Publickly and Priv.uely, Whether it be Sinful Separation? If Men can fpare the Mini-flry. Why are they Maintained ? If they are needful for the Safety of Mens Souls, Mull fo many Thonfands hazard their Souls for want of needful Help, left they be called Separattfis? if the Dean of St. r^nhbt called the Parfon of the Partjh^ and Preach to others that can Hear him. Will that fervc the Needs -of all the reft?

XX. In MofMviCy where a Chriftian Prince, and the Laws forbid all Preaching, and Publick Worfhip, fave the Reading of Homilies and Liturgies'^ Is it Separation, and Sinful Schifm, 40 Dfiobcy this, and otherwife to Preach and Worfhip God?

^X'. Is it Schifm in Frame, and fuch other Countries, -for

the

the Troteffants to Meet to Preach and Worfhip God, againfl the W II' of the Kir}7 and Biflwp ? It's true, that great Sin is ne-ccflTtrlly thus avoided by them, which are not Impofed upon hs. But if it prove, that any Sin \s maJeneccflary to Communion, the Degree will not m^ch vary the Cafe, as to the Point of Separation.

X X n. In divers Countries, the Trince is of one Religion, or Mode of Religion, and the Bif)opi of another: The ,>ue-ftion 19, VV ho arc the Schifmaticki, the People that in thcis AfTcn.bii^s, and Mode of Worfhip, do follow the Prince, or they that follow the BiJIjops ? Some great Writers for Conformity ull me. That if the A'/«^ Command one Liturgy, Tran-/latto?:, Fcrfiorj^ Cerem^ny^ &c. and the Bijlwp another, I muft obey the Bfjhp before the King: Others fay, I mull Obey the King btfore the BrTjop, fof which before ) Bifhop Goud>Tian of Glpcejiir ^a Papiji) complaineth of the A'w^, that would not confcnt that Clerj^y. Mtn fli^uld be Chanccllours: And I rpc-.k with no E:(hop; that d'fowneth not Lay-Chanccllours U'e of the Keys The Htiverian Magi Graces are 'rajliansy a-g.iim^ the Clcgip V* >vvcr of Fxcommunication: Many of the Palors are of the Contrary ludgincr.t. The DukQo{ BrAnden-bkr^i is a Caivimj}: His Bifhops and Clergy are Lmheratjs, Wfich Party are ihe Schifmatkk^?

XX III. Were all thofe Separating SchlfmatUksy who, from the A pofiics Daycs, did Meet, Preach, and Worfhip Cod againft the Will and Laws of Princes'^ fometimes of Heathen Princes, and fometimes of C^r/7?^4wj^ (Conjiantine, f^alenj, Theodojius the Second, Anajlafusy Zeno, Juftinian, &c.) If fo, moft Chridian BiJI:}ps have been fuch SeparatiJ^s, I have in my Fir ft Plea, and my Church-Hifiory, given Inftances enough.

XXIV, Is hSchif/nj or Sinful 5ff^>4nc», to Difotey a Command about Religion, which no Man hath true Authority to Give? Authority is the Oh'ySium Forvmle oS Olfidierce; and where there is no yi/ahonty, there h no Dtfobcdicnce, in a formal Senfe, or privative. Moft /o/./rci^^ fay. That/'?7V7ff/have no Authority againft the Common Good : All Power of Princes nnd ^afon is of God, and is for EclificatiOTi, and not for Deftr»'<rton. 6oJ giveth no Power againd Himfelf, orhisLaws, nor the Souls of M' n. If the King fhould Command me to Marry a Wife, whom I know to be intolerably unmeet for me; or to Feed my felf,.and Family with Food, which I find to be ogiind our Health; or to ufe a Phyfician, uhofe Ignorance or Negligence, or Untruflincfs,. wauld. end anger my Liff: I am

not

not bound to Obey him," both becaufe it is a Matter that is witlnnt the Verge of his Governing Authoriy and becaufe it is again!!: the End of Government. R:n^al Pc^jvcr ^eftroyeth rot Family-Power, nor Perfvnal Intercfl: and Siff-Oovernmeht : No Man-hath Povwr to Dcftroy or Enda^ng^r the Souls of Men, nor forbid them fecking their own Edification and Salvation. I Repeat Bifhop Bilfon'sWordsy p. 236 of Subjcdion: Y_i'rir]ces hnvc no Right to Ca/l or Confirm Preachers, hut to Receive pic h as be Sent of God, and give them Ltbe.ty for their Preachi;fg, and Security for their Per font. And if Princes Re-fufefo to doy God's Labourers muji go forward wtth th it which is Commanded them from Heaven: Not by Dtjtnrbing Princes from their Thrones, nor Invading their Realms, as your Father doth J and dcfendeth he may do', but by mildly Submitting them-felves to the Powers on Earthy aud meekly Suffering for the Defence of the Truth, what they jhall InfUtl. • Pag. 399. The

£le^ion of Biflwp in thofe Dayes, belonged to the People, and not to the Prince : And though by plain Force, he placed Lucius there', yet might the People lawfully RejcB him as no Bt[hop^ and cleave to Peter, their Rrght PaJ}or.2 On thiSj I further ask,

XXV. If the Nonconforming People can prove.That (notWJth-ftanding the times of Civil Ufurpation, and Bipops Removal^ the.r Pafiors had a Liwful Call and Title to their Office over them, andthvy were truly obliged to them, as in that juft Relation^ Whether the Magilhatesor Bifhops Ads, have made thofe Relations, and Obligations Null.? That the Temples and Tythes are in the Migiftrates Power, we doubt not: But more than Bifhop Bilfon, even many Councils deny it of the Office, and J^ajiural Relation. Yea, the Univerfal Church vfas of the fame mind. And if fo, how prove you, e.g. that the Relation of the Ejeifled London Minifters, and their Flocks was DiflTolved, and that the Succeedcrs were true Paftors tothe Non-confenting Flocks ?•■-•;'> '^J

XXVI. that there*are (Alasj Multitudes of Young, Raw, Injudicio's. b^ fides Scandalous Briefs, no Man can deny that knoweth 'England, and hath any Modefty. If then honed People, that are not willing to be Damned, (ball fay: [^We hc'fl know ivhat is fuitable to vur Needs., and what Teachers pi^o-ft H<, and what not. And we, find that fume are fo- Fgnorant that the) are unmeet as Plowmen, to refolve' the mofl chnf^erning Caps of Confcience; and their Converfation favoureih not of any jeriom belief of Chrijiianity, and the World to coMe, and'they do

bnt

btft ^ead a few dry words, //% Schoot-Boys^ f^y^ng a Weak^ Qra-tion-t without Life or Serioufncfsf and we can but little p"oft by them.'] iiow prove you that it is lawful for fuch to ufe itiore fuitable helps, though Men forbid it ? A Soul is precious : God Workcth by means, and according to the fuitablencfs of Means ■• That agreeth not to fome, which others can make fi^:if: with : Two or Three words from a Conformifi-, that faith.- Ijuod ca?i Blcfs the weakcfi A4en7}S to yon ; or, the Fault is i/t your felfj will not fcrve inftead of needful. Helps. The Ki^g or Bipmp have not Authority to tie a Sick Man to Eat that which he cannot Digcft, or Hurtcth him. Every Man is necrlieft concerned for his own Soul, and moft Entrufted with it. Parifh-Oider it felf, is but a humane alterable Circumftance; which / am not bound to obfcrve at the hazard of my Edification and Salvation.

XXn/. What if the Magiftratc grant a Toleration of divers Modes of Worfliip, as the French^ and Dutch Churches archer Tolerated, and many in Holland^ and in many other Countries ? Are thcfe feparatingSc/7//;;wf/c)!^/, that diflfcr from each o-ther ? yf fo, itisnotbccaufe they difobey theMagiftratc; for he Toleratcth them all .• if not, then meer diverfity of Modes of Worfhip makcth not Schifmaticks.

XXFJII. /fit be no true Political Church (in the ftria fcnfeas an Organized Society,) which hath not true Authorized Pallors, • and if any Parifh have cither ZJncapable Pofom-, or fuch as were never Confented to by the Flocks, and fo have no Tnic Pajior ^ and if the Bifhops hold, that Parifhes are not proper Political Churches, but parts of Churches, having no Paftors that have the Pov/er of the Keyes, or the whole EfTence of the Paftoral Office ^ but only Half-Paftors, that want an EfTential Part of the Power, /f on any fuch Account, anv Parifhes are no true Paftoral Churches : Qj^ry-t Whether to feparate from fuch a Parifh, be to Separate from a Church in the fenfe in queftion ?

XXIX. The mutual Condemnations in the times of the A'c-'vatiansy Donatijis^ Ncflorians^ Eutychiayis., A'fo-nothtliteSi Thau-tafiajh-i Tm.ige-Patroiisy &c. tell the World how needful, mutual forbearance is, to prevent worfe Divifions and Confufions .-And the Papifts take themfelves to be all of one Church, tho^igh they diflPer even in Doftrincs of Morality, as dangeroufly as the Janfc-ftifts againft the Jcfuits have fhewed ^ and though many Scfts and Orders be permitted to Live and Worfhip God with very great diverfity in their fcvcral forts of Monaftarics :

H ' Why

Why then fnould the little differences of our queftioncd AfTcm-blies, be thought to be fo great as maketh us not to be of one Church. XXX. Some good Chriftians think. That though an trndifci-plined Church may be Communicated with, occalionally, yea, and condantly, Vv/hiie there is a hopeful Tryal of its Reformation J yet when there is no hope after Patient Tryal, a better CouiTe and Communion fhould be chofcn, where it may be had: And they think, that Multitudes whom they know to be pro-phmc Swearers^ Curfcrs-y Drur:kards^ Fornicatorsy Haters o( {en-ous Piety^ Hobbifis-i bifdels^ Aiheifis^ Sadduces-, &c. are continued in the Church of England : And they fay, they fcarce ever heard one Man of all thefe Excommunicated \ nor one Man of them all, ever brought to Publick Confcfiion and Repentance. And they think, Lay-Chancellours, having not rightfully the Power of the Keys, there is no ordinary Means of hopeful Reformation, and Excrcife of Difcipiine ^ cfpecially, the Largenefs of the DiocefTes making it impoflible to be ufcd to One of an Hundred, that ( according to the Law of Chrifl ) it fhould be ufed on. And they think, That the Church-Difcipline is not only None-^ as to the Right Ufe, and made Impoflible *, but worfe thau None-y while it is ufed mofl: to Excommunicate from Chrifi'^s Church, the True and Confcionable Members of Chrifit that dare not Conform; and fo to lead to their /mprifonment, and utter Ruin. And they think, That no Man hath true Authority, to confine them to fuch an Undifciplined, and Ill-dif-ciplincd Church •, and forbid them the Ufe of better, where ChriJPs Difcipiine may be ufed. Whether thefe Men be in the Right, or in the Wrong , if the Matter of Faft be true, I fhould defire rather the Reformation of fuch a Church, than the R^eproach or Aflfli£>ing of Men, as Separatifis and Svhifma' ticks-, that choofe another fort of Communion, as to their more Ordinary Pra6tifc ; not denying this to be a true Difeafed Church.

And fo much in thefe Thirty /nftances, about that which / think deferveth not the Reproach of any dangerous Separation / told you Thirty Inftances alfo of Unlawful Separation, which I named. And now you may judge, whether you fpake to Edification, when you faid. That [_ the People are Condemned by their own Teachers ; '] without telling, whom, and for what; and how far they Condemn them, and how far not. .

. §. 34. And, Did you think the Confequence good, That be-cuufe we think it Lavef^tl to Hear you-y yea, and to many a Du-

J

ty \ therefore we Condemn them, for Hearing any one elfe^ that Conformeth not ? As if they that have Communion with your Dioccfan-Church, muft h^vc Commi-nion with no other ? vSo far am / from your Opinion, that / take it to be wofiilly Separating and Schifinatical : And will never be a Member of a Particular Church, which will forbid me Communion with all otlicrs that differ from thcm^ yea, that do not hold its Communion in Unity with all the True Chrillian Churches en Earth. Though a Schifmatical Difpiiter for Prelacy-) tells me, That though 1 communicate with the Church 0/England, I am a Schif-vtatick^ for communicating with Non-conformifts , whs ( faith h.e) are Schifmaticks. But he. that will communicate with no Church that hath any Guilt of Schifm, when the Chriftian World is broke into fomany Scds, / doubt, will be the greatcft Schifma-tick ; and will Communicate with few on Earth And as S.mith Baptized himfelf, not liking any other Baptifm, this man may become a Church unto himfelf.

And indeed, the word {^Condemn thetn~\ founds Harih ; when it lignifieth no more than that we Judge them to be Mijlaken and Culpable. if / Condemn every Man, or every Church ? which / judge to be Sinners, / muft Condemn all Mankind. / ufe not fo harfh a Phrafc of your Self, as to fay, / Condemn Tou : When yet / judge your Book to be more Schifmatical, than the Meetings of moft that/am acquainted with j which you Accufe.

§. 55. But yet, your Miftake is Greater than / have hitherto mentioned, /know not many {\{ any) that ufe to Hear Me, who Seperate from You : Many of them are Fpifcop.^.l^ and for yo'jr Liturgie and Ceremonies. I think, moft of them go to the Pari(h-Chui ches i and/<?vv (if any) that I know, do deny it to be Lawful. How then can you prove it True, that wo. Condemn them? What is it for ? Is it becjufe they neither Separate from the Conformifis^ or Ncnconformijis ? This is it, that we Exhort them to. It was an ill Slip, to put our Coyidemmng them-t for Commending them : But a fail Expofition will make it La\v*' full.

%.26. But you fay {_H(iw 1 hey can Preach lawfully to a people that commit a fault in hearing them., 1 do not underJlandr\

u4rf Now you come to your bufinefs .- But 1. What if yon by Calumny call my ordinary hearers Scparatifts, and they ar.? not f.ch? 1. What if wc prove it to be their duty to hear both you and usinfeafon, ifthey need it, or lawful at Icaft ; and fo do commend them, and not condemn thcni ? may we then lawfully

H z Preach

Preach to them ? What if the fault which'we blame fome for, be their judging it mlawful to hcarjuchasyont Wi'l your Logick prove that we call it their/^j/^/f to hear us •, aslf hearir/^ hs, arid not hearingycn^ were words of the fame fignificition ?

And is all neccflary which is lawful i Do we condemn men that do not all that is lawful to do ? And bccaufe you after in-fjr, that if it he liwfiiU it i^ a, Duty :, / would yo.i had told us, whether you take this univerfally, that [JVhatcvcr is lawfulis a Duty-t'} or only in this cafe for fome fpecial reafon, and what that i5. y fuppofe it is, becaufe it is commanded: as if every lawful. thing commanded were a duty : But we think otherwife, unlcf^' the Command be an Act which God Authorizeth the Commander to do. All mens Authority is limited by God : and they have none bi^t from him. For inftance, it is lawful to eat brown Bread, and drink Water, (or Wine ; ) But if the King or Bifhop forbid mc to eat better, when my health rcquireth it, /am not bound to obey them •, it is lawful to v/ear Sackcloth, but none have power to forbid me fitter cloathing: It is lawful to fct a Son Apprentice to a Chimney-fwee^er-i or to an Ale-feller, or f^im-rier •, but if the Biihop or any other forbid one to place him better, it obligeth not .• It is lawful to marry a Blackmorcj or an ugly Scold, or Beggar: But the Bifliop or King cannot oblige men to chafe no better, becaufe it is out of the Verge of their jurisdiction, and belongeth to perfonal and family power. It is lavv'ful to put my felf into the Hofpital, and care of an unskilful rhyfician, till my health require better .• But when my health requireth it, /will ufe a better if /can, whoever forbids it. For it is ufurpationin them, that fhall take the nccefJary care of my health and life out of my own hands, /t is lawful to give the King our cftates •• But Lawyers fay we are bound to do it, meerly becaufe He or the Bifhop commanded! it.

But perhaps you thinK, that men may do more againftour fouls than againft our bodies*, and have more power in Pvcligionthan ill civil and bodily things: But we are not bound to think fo if you do. It is lav/ful for men to hear one that only readeth the Scripture and Liturgy, and never preachcth : But when my needs requireth more, /will ufe it if /can, whoever forbids me. It is lawful to hear an ignorant raw Lad, that faith over a dry Sermon as a Boy faith his LefTon, and hath neither Spiritual Life nor Light, nor is fit to take a Charge of Souls: And it is lawful to hear fuch a Sermon as yours, or one that preacheth againft other mens preaching : Yea> we rejoyce, and will rejoyce that Chrift is preached^ though by fuch as do it in ftrife and contention

to

Pvicliarcl BaxterV ^tificcr to Dr. Snillngflcet. 6i to add affli£lion to theaffli£Vcd, and not nncerely.- But wife men that believe a life to come, and love their fculs, will choofe better if chcy can, whoever forbiddcth them. Men have no power to hurt our fouls, nor to deprive us of the help which God affordeth us, nor to make thcmfelves the only Judges, what is profitable or hurtful to our fouls or bodies, or what is bed for our edification.

§ 37. But £ To commit a frjdt ht heart;!r US'] is of doubtful fignification. In the manner of hearing, airco:nmic faults :, by fonic defea of attention, faith or application .• But that's not it that you mean : But that it i< their fm to hca.ns And indeed, if this were true, is it above your learning to underftand, that It IS lawful to preach to them that commit a fault in hcarihc th(yn. ^

1. What if culpably they would hear no other ? Is it bctt'^r let them hear none at all, than that we preach to them ? Ifpec-vidinefs or ficknefs make a Child refofe the Food or Phyfick u-hich he fliould take by his parents command ; will you fay, that it is better that he famidi or die, than that you give him any other ^ Men may be faved that hear not you / But how can they believe" unlefsthey hear, or hear without a Preacher ? The means is for the End.- I will have A fercy a^dmt Sacrifice, is a Lcffcn which I perceive more than the Fharifces are to learn. Order is for the thing Ordered : Paridi Order is not fo needful as Faith and Salvation. It may be, fuch a mans Sin, that he will not hear f.ich as he liouldhcar; andfo by Confcquencc that he heareth me, and yet a 10 Confcquently his Duty to hear me, fuppofing that his fault hath blinded hmi, to thmk that he may hear no other, till his Errour be Cu-ed; Or at leaft, it is my Duty to take him as I find him, and freach to him in his own miftakc.

2. The Canon forbids going out of our own Parifhes : fuppofe twemy or five Hundred Infidels, or Papifc ofthenext ParifTi rcfolv-cd v.e will hear no Protcdant b.t Dr. St:llr..fleet; were it unlawful for y(Aito Preach to them ? oj ?

P..^i;.^^ ^ '^''"''^ Preach to them all againft feparation, and for Prelacy, were it unlawful ? One of the Do^Vors at the Savoy, 1 66 i motK,ned, that he and I might go up and down ifWW to Preach

fh^n^'^'n'^^i^Vr'^^^'"!^ 'u'' 'V''''^ vvedono^ we may tell them. Dr. Stdlw^ficct takcth it for unfdwfu!.- If it b- a Sin to preach to them, it is a fin to preach to them againft Separation, or ior Conformity. . ^

4. It is ordinary for men of other Parifhes to hear you, and JJi. 7///.//,;, and others, f.ch as you cftccm; And I fuppofe

*^ 3 . . nWL

raoft Weekly I^Oures are Preached moH: to men of other Parifhes, and yet you take it not for fin to preach to them.

5. It is ordinary for many Proteftants to go hear and Communicate \v\x)\t\i(i French ox Dutch Churches which differ from you in the Mode of Worfhip : And yet I never heard it proved, that it is ^ a fin for the Preachers thus to preach to them.

6. What if your Children as Prodigals over-run you, or the Kings Subjcds caufcIeOy fly into another Land: Tlicy ought not to hi. there. Is it therefore unlawful, for any to teach them there, or receive them topublick Worfhip ?

7. Almoft all the Chriftian World , is {o tainted with fome degree of Errour and Partiality, that men will hear none but thofe of their own mind, for their Errour fake. The Armcm-ar?St Abajjlms-y Greeks^ Fapifts-, Nefioriam , Jacobites-, LmheranSf Armlnians^ Calvinifts-, Anabaptifls^ &c. It is unlawful for any of thefe, to refufe founder Teachers than their own, and to Confine themfelvcs to their own only meerly for their fingular O-pinions; And yet it will be hard for you to prove, that all the Preachers on Earth, mufl: give over Preaching to any fuch as thefe. What fliame. Blood, and odious Schifms, followed this Schifma-tical Principle, while in doubtful Difputions, or tolerable differences, each party Condemned and Curfed the other, I have fully manifeftedin iny Abridgment ofChurch-Hiftory. While by one Emperour and Council all the Orthodox were Depofed ; and by another , all the Neftori.^.ns -^ and by another, all the Eiukhians ; and by another, all the Mamthelites '^ and by another, the Corrupt ticoU •, and by another, the JconocUfis ; and fo on ; How few were there un-Curfed, and un-Condemned in the Roman World ? And this keepeth the Churches in Schifm to this day.

5. Do not you thus teach the Non-conformiils to requite you with the like ', and by your own Rule to judge it unlawful for you to Preach. They judg indeed, that it is lawful to hear you ; I. When better cannot be had, without greater hurt than benefit. 2. To (hew their judgment by their Pradife,^;/^,. that they fe-paratc not from you as no Church, nor take it for fimply unlawful to have Communion with you: But they that think Conformity as great a fin as they have told you, they fear it would be to them, muft needs think that it is a fault in thofe that choofe your Affcmblies, when aeteris partbuiy and without greater hurt than good, they might have better. And muft wc therefore conclude, that it is unlawful for you to Preach. Suppofe it were but, when we had the Kings Licence. Or, if in the times of

Ufurpation

Richard BaxterV ^nfwzr fo Dr. Scillingfleet. ^:;

Ufurpation, any thought to leave the Parifh Churches tended culpably to Divifion : it followcth not, that is was unlawful for a Billiop to preach in private, tho'jgh when you, under the Ufurpers, kept the Pariih Churcli, he had prcacht to fome of your Flock.

But here you fhew what your Labour tendcth to, viz.. To prove it Unlawful for us to Preach, that you may perfwade Usr to give over, /f God will, I fhall elfcwhere give you an Account of the Reafons of our Preaching \ and Anfwer what You, and Others fay agjinft it : And therefore, fhall fay bi.t little of it here. But I a:u heartily forry, that you are come to fuch a Dc-fjre : That you had rather {o many Hundred fdch Miniftcrs were Silenced, than fulTercd to Preach without your Covenants and Ceremonies ! That you no more regard the Needs of the People, that abound in Ignorance, Carelefnefs, and Vice^ nor ob-fcrveno more the Power of Sin, nor the great Want of Help to fuch Pariflics, as your own, and too many in the Land, that have need on other Accounts.

O ! How dreadful and unfearchablc are the Judgments oiCod} That when fo many Hnndreds were Forbidden to Preach the Gofpcl, the Flague muft firft give them fome Degree of Liberty, and the Flames continue it the next Year, and the Ki7jg*s Clemency after, and Horrid Po^i^i Treafon next divert their ..Profccutors •, while the Laws and Bifhops all the while forbad them : Even when the Parifh-Preachers fled from the Plague, and it was dying Men that the Non-ConfornrfisPrcacWt to. And when th.? Churches were Burnt down, and the People had no Prieft, or Place to go to for their own way of Worfhip •, yet • neither Laws nor Bilhops confented to our Preaching : And fuch Men as Dr Stillm^fleet alfo, come in to engage their Wit, Reputation, Induftry, and Confcience, in the Silencing Defign. O ! What Caufe have we all to W^atch and Pray, That We enter not into Temptation ? and to dread the Spiritual Judgments of God ? Remember Lo 'j Wife , v/as a needf.il Warning. A Solomon^ that is Numbred with the Wifcft Men, may be fct up as a Frightful Monument, to bid us Take hecd^ left we Re-•volt.

And / take it for a greater injury to us, to perfwade us to Silence our fclves :, than to perfwade the M.igiftrate only, to Silence, Eanifli, or Imprifon us : For fo to Suffer from another, is not our Sin. Bi;t Sacrilegioufly to break our !\!inifterial Vow, and forfake the Calling, which we were Solemnly Vowed to, and

this

(54 Richard Baxter'/ Af;Jirer to Dr. StilllngFIcet.

this while the Nccedity ofSoMlsfor Help;, is a Sin, which few Men are fo b:-id, as to pcrfwadc us to with open Face, without fomc pious fraudulent Pretence.

§. 38. Scrm. p. 20. C-^ ^<? ^ot confound bare Sufpending Cofmmi-vicn-i infome particidair RitcSf which Persons do juodejlly Scruple-, and njtng- it in what theyjud^e to he Lawful ; with cither totals or ordi-tiary Forbearance of Co7nmHnion-, in what they jitdjre to be Lawful; and proceeding to the Forming of Separate Congregations-, i. e. finder other Teachers-, and by other Rules^ than what the Efiablif.'ed Religion alloweth. And this is the prefent Cafe of Separation, which J intend to confider, and to make the Sinfulnefs, and the Mifchievoufiefs appear.

Arifw. I am fure, I am one that you exprefly Charge, as of this Number ; and / can bcft fpeak for my felf and thofe of my Acquaintance. 1. /s it true, that I totally or ordinarily forbear ?

2. What mean yoii by {_ Forming'} a Congregation ? If their Trefence be my Forming them, it is but becaufe 1 fpeak to them : For, I neither Perfwad'e nor Drive them to be there. But if you mean. Forming tllem into a DifiinB Church-, and becoming their Paflor-, I was never Related as a Paftcr-, to any Church, bw Kiddermmfier •, nor have thcfe Twenty Years, been a Pajlor to any •, but borrowed other Mens Pulpits, to' Preach a Lefture to fuch as fay they need it.

3. Your word [^Separate-,'] / have Examined before. You Separate from My xA^uditory, and more than Separate ; and / Separate not from Yours •• Who then is the Separatifi ?

4. All the Parifhes about you, and the Birhop of Ely in your Parish, that judge it Lawful to Hear you, yet are Abfent from you ; and fo are fome Ncn-Conformifis-, that think they muft Preach themfelves ; and cannot be in two Places at once, /s that Separating ?

5. The French and Dutch Churches do all thit, which you here defcribe, as SinfuL Sind Mifchievotu-, only they have more Leave, than we.

6. Is all the matter, that We are Teachers-, which the Law Alloweth not ? So were the Orthodox under the Neflorian , Emychian-, Mcnothelite-, &c. Princes. And fo/have proved That the Chriftian Religion hath been much propagated in the W^orld.

7. What are the Rules which we go by, which the Efta-bliflied Religion alloweth not .^ Doth it not allow the Sacred

Scriptures f

Scriptures? Or, Have you proved, That /goby any other Rufe ? If the ^H: of Vuiformity , or the Cimris be your Religion, Do not they allow 6Ws Word ? Or, if they be your Rulest omitting that , Is not Vfmg another ? Yet, thofe that do joyn in Churches under Chofcn Paftors, when I do not, / fhall not Condemn till! hear their Reafons: They may have more Caufc than / have.

§. 3 9.Serm. p. 21. \_lhey Vnammoujly confefs they find m fauit with the Do^rtne of our Church.']

j4nf. 1. And yet are you one that would have them all Silenced ? But this is not true •• You name Four or F/w, and then fay {_VnammoHfly\~\ and this becaufe they offer to Sub-fcribe the Doftrine of the Thirty Nine Articles; and yet / fuppofe you know , they more Unanimoufly diflcnt from the Doftrinal Article in the Liturgy of Baptized Infants , certain undoubted Salvation without Exception, and fome of them to the Don:rinal Damnation of all Condemned in jithanafius Creed j And fome of your felves, as well as Mr. Humphrey could wifh the Article againft Free-will^ and that which Dam-neth all the Heathens, and fome others, had been otherwife than they are.

§.40 [They generally yield-t that our Parochial Churches are true Churches ; and it is with thefe that Communion is requi' red-}

Say you fo? i. The Dioccfans are little beholden to you, if this be all! Do you require no Communion with them ?

2. / think / Ihall fhew you anon, that you take your Parifhes for no true Churches your felf: At Icaft your chief Brethren do not,-who make them but parts of a Church, the Diocefan being the lowed proper Church.

3. Are you fure, that the Independents take your Parifhes for true Churches ? / cannot tell. But / know John Goodwin and Mr. Brown have Writ to the Contrary.

4. And for my felf, how oft have / told you, that / diftin-guifh, and take thofe for true Churches, that have true Paftors (^but that is, becaufe / judge of their office by Gods Word, and not by the Rule which depriveth them of an eflential part of the Office of a Paftor of a true Church.^ But / take thofe for no true Churches, that have. i. Men uncapable of the Paftoral office. 2. Or not truly called to it. 3. Or that deny them-felves to have the Power efTcirtial to a Paftor. Such Congregations / can joyn with, as Chappels or Oratories: But they are

i not

not Churches of the political organized form which we fpcak of, as wanting an cfTcntial part.

§41. Next you tell men, what I faid in print, of our Concln-fio?!-, that comnmnion with yon was lawfjl. ] u^nfw. This is true: and when faid we other wife ? Dr. Mamon^ Dr. Batesy Dr. Jacomb^ Mr. Poole zndi others w6re there! I told you before, how far law-fuL

§. 42. Serm. p. 22. \jVho could Jjave Im/i^hedt hm they jl:oHld have all joynedvaith m-, in what themfclves judged to he lawful^ and in jmviy Cafes a duty. . Bitt infead of this^ vce have rather finc( that time-, found than hiore inclinable to cbiirfcs offeparationy &c. ] 1 > ■

ylr;f\v. If this be nottrue'^ l take it not foi^ fihl^fs. Sincethat time I. Mr. Pool-, Mr. Hnniphrey-, my felf an'd others, that took our fclves to be no Paftors to any particular Chuixh , have ufually joyned in your aiTembliqs ^ and I ufually keep to my Parifh Church. ■ . "

2. Since that time , in a Treaty fet .on foot by the Lord-keeper Bridgman^ we agreed in terminis, with Biinop Wilkins, and Dr. Burton-y and Judge Hale drew up our Agreement into the form of an Aa.

3. Sincethat time, at your own motion, we treated with honeft Dr. Tillufon and you, and the fame men and more, confented to the form and words of an agreeing Aft, and you both feemed to confcnt.

.4. Where you read my words, you might have read the Reafon> why no more Communicated with you. And it is not like a lover of Truth to dififemble them; i. I told you, that even at the prefent, new' heats arifing againft DifTenters, we thought it our duty , till they were over, to forbear a lawful thing •, which was like to occa-fion the fjtFcrings of fuch as in that were not fatisfied as we were. MarriagMs lawful : But if it be not nccefTary, one may forbear it> if it would r.ine another, though the Bifhop command it him. 2. I told you, that the Oxford Aft of confinement, came out when we were intending to come to yowr Churches : and then had we been feen there in the City or Corporations, we had been fent to Jayle .• but many in the Countries came to your Churches. This is your Cathedral juftice \ The Law is Q come to Church in London^ &c. and you iliall go to Jayle fix Months.] And if we do not, fuch as you tell the World, that we are Separatifts. 3. I told you, men cannot preach to others, and hear you both at once. Muft we repeat thefe things as oft as you acdfc us ? ,

§. 43- iR

RichardBaxterV ^^^fivcr to Dr.StWYmg^cet. Cy

§.43. In the charge arc joyned Dr. 6>iv<?/; and my felf, my error

IS Up. Z^.Serm. That to dcvifc new Species ofClmrches (Inyond Parochial

<• crCongregatioml without Gods authority^ and to impofe tbem on 'the

world yea tn htsname) and call alldijfcmeys ScbijOnatic ks, is a far worFe

' ufurpmon th-an to make or impose new Ccrejmnies or Liti'r&ics "]

^;;/.A man would think that this doftrincdiould juftiffe it fclf and confute the Accufer. i .Will you own your Churches dcSpeck to be new and yet appeal to antiquity f 2. Will you own them to be devifcdwith out Gods authority, and yet to be preferred to thofe that he inftitLted ? 3 AV 111 you own that yet they may in his name he tn.pofcd on the }Vorld ? 4. And will you own that for thefe, difenters may b? called Sch-rma ticks? 5 And IS not this a worfe ufurpation than to make new Cere monies ? If you will plead for fo much prefamption, profanation of Gods name, ufurpation, unchantablcnefs, and Schifm, I will leav^ you to fight againft the Light, and not labour in vain inanecdlefs confutation. 2 But, Sir, you/hould have told your Reader the fu'l truth. I That I never denied but largely afTerted the Magim-ates power of the Sword over all perfons and caufes Ecclefiafticalt much Ids Clmjltan Kingdoms, or Cities de re. 2. And that/maintained that'' Magiftrates make officers to j udge of the Circafacra ; or undetermined accidents of Rdigion. 3 .And if you will equivocally call thefe Churches I quarrel not ^^w;/;;;;,. 4-Nor yet at the thing or name of the AfToci-ation of many Churches for Concord 5. But 1 fay (in the Page cited ' by youj that as humane forms fhould not be pretended falHy to be Divme, fo neither have they authority againft thofe that are Divine to change them and dedroy their pnviledges : llnlefsyou will fioht for man againft God, you muft reverfe this Accufation ^

^^44. As to your cafe, of the extent of the firft Churches,/have fo

much to fay of It elfewhere, if God will,that I Hiall not here ftay on fo

ftort a touch.Only you put me to repeat,//-6'.^ ...Z;,/^^;///,,^^^^

mal^GtiesAo but confider the different efficients,and ufurp not a power

to deftroy the power inftituted by God,and we (hall not much dX

§^45- You greatly ftrengthen my Caufe by the teftimonv of fo well'

Readaman [Serm.p.27 ' Though when the Churches increafed.thZ

cafional meetings were frecjuent in feveralplaces, yetfiilither wasbut

one Church, one ^Itar, andone Baptifm, and one Bi(l.op, with many

^ Presbyters a0ing him ^^^dthisisfo very plain in Jntl^uiry,as tfZ

Churches planted by the Jpoftles themfelves tn feveralpartsWanofie but

irte'r ^^.^^^.7^/^^^CW^, can e^lr call inc^ueflion.2 ^f Bifhop Gunning will give you no thanks for this, It feems after all the anger we are m:ich agreed. I never denied Chapels to a Church, nor thought they muft all meet at once. If they all mee^

fcr vices at one Alt ay -^ they arc affociatcd for pyefcmial Com;?uaio?j-, and not diflam only, and this is that / am for. Make it but fuch a Church that meet atone Altar, and that can know one anoth-.n-, and are affociatcd for fuch pcrfonal Communion in prcfcnce, and (though / could wi(h it neither too fmali nor too great) it is of the Sj^cies which /plead for as of God.There is certainly a Specifique difference between a Church that hath a Conftitutive'formal Governour, who hath the v.'hole Paftoral power, and is affociatcd for prefcnrial mutual help in faith, worfliip, and holy living, and one that cith?*-hath but ahalf Pador without the power of the Keyes, or that is affociatcd only for diftant Communion, and never fer.- each other ; even for another Sort of Communion. Conformifts' hold that Bifhops and Presbyters are diltind orders : Therefore Churches differing in the very Order or Species of the Conflitutive Governours, and in the Triminus or end, and the nature of the Communions are certainly of diftinft Species, and not only of diftindk degrees in the fame Species ; But fuch are our Parochial and Diocefan Churches. Juft fjch a Church as you here defcribe is it that / would have, and yet if the Chapels alfo have Altars, and there be more than one to the Church, as long as they are under the fame Bifhop and Presbyters> affociate for Communion in prcfcnce, it alters not the Spcrcies.

§. 46. / thank you alfo for adding/?. 28. [J- And yet this deflrihHti-* bntion even in Creet xvas fo uncommon in thofe Elder times^ that Epi-^ Tph'mWiS takes notice cf it as an extraordinary thing at Alexandria and ' therefore it is probably fuppofed that there was no puh thing in all the ' Cities in his time.~\

Anf. I. It^s true of Creet, which had an hundred Cities .• But your [^therefore]] makes me think, you put Creet ^or Cyprus. For there it was that EpiphaniM was a Bifhop. 2, But you grant me the foundation of all my caufe. Let the Dioccfs or Parifh or Church (call it what you will) be no bigger than that the fame Bifhop may perform the true Paftoral office to them inprefent Communion, and not only by writs, and delegates, rule men that have no perfonal pre-fent Communion, nor ever intend it as the end of their relation> and /have my defire as to the Species of the loweft fort of Churches. iThef. 5. )2, 13. Know them which labour among yon, and are over yon intheLordy and admonifi^yon. But fuch are not thofe whom we never faw nor heard, and never laboured among or admonilhed the twentieth or fortieth or hundredth Congregation in their Diocefs, aiid whom the People cannot know.

Heb, 13.7. Retnember them which have rule o/veryoH^ who havefpoken toyoH tbf word ofCod-iWhofe faith follow)Confidmng the endof their conver-

fation

Richard BaxtcrV ^Anjivcr to Dr. 5c.

fation. 17. Obey them that have the rule over you andJHbmit yoiirfelvc ^ for they watch for your Souls as thofe that mufi give accoum. Cut fuch are not they that the people never heard the word of God from, nor knew their converfation nor the men : And Bilhop'ywyor faith. No man can give account of thofe th.it he knoweth not ', that is,Paftors account. Make Parifhes true Churches, and rcftorc them Church difcipHne, and we are fatisfied.

' § 47. Serm. P. 29. [_ If we Icok^over the ancient Canons of the ' Churchy we^Jall fnd two things very plain in them : i.That the notion *" of a Church was the fame with that of a Dioccfs ; or fuch a number of ' Chriflians at were under the infpeflion of a Bijhop.']

Anf. I. Very true; and the Billiop was their ordinary Preacher, and only pronounced the blefTing, c^c. Therefore till the Species was altered it was like a School, whofe Schollars lived in City and Country, but were under a Bilhop that Governed them perfonally in prefence. But after they were like many fcore or hundred Schools that had Teaching lUlicrs, and one abfcnt Governour (to the mofb.) To Govern as a Schoolmafter in prefence fpecifically differs from Governing as Princes or vifitors, by Laws, or extraordinary inrpe£lion.

2. I pray you forget not that by this mcafure (if you hold to it) you unchurch all our Parifh Chiirches : Every Church then had a Bilhop, no Parifh now hath a BiOiop Cproper to it felf), or at leaft not, many: Therefore no Parifh (by this rule) is a Church. Ecclefa efi flehs Bpifcopo adunata. You make no Church below a Dioccfs.

* § 48. Serm. \_l' That thofe Presbyters who rejcSled the amhority of *" thetr Bifjop or ajfcBed Seperate meetings^ where no fault could befouiid ■ * with the DoElrine of a Churchy were condemned of Schifmr\

, j4nf Good ftill : They were not to fct up altare contra altM-et but ■ joyn with the Bifhop in Governing the fame Church in prefent Communion at leaft per vices : But if a Bifhop then hid put down a hundred or a thoufand Bifhops and Churches about him, and fai4^-you fhall be all but one Church in another fort of Communion >' and I will be your only Bifhop, Chri lians then would have abhor-ed him : Now we have hundreds of Altars locally feparated fromr the Bifhop.

2. But yet if then the Dodrineof Faith had been never fo found, Chriftians would have Separated, i. From unlawful Worfhip (fpecially Idolatry^. 2. And from wicked Bifhops -^ as the fore-mentioned Epiftlc of Cyprtan and the Carthage Counfel fhew-eth.

* § 49. You Confefs Ma^-tln and Theognojitu Separation from the.

^iixterV Anfacr to Dr. Stillingflcct.

Synods and 'Commijnion of the neighbour Bifhops .• And if it were not lawful for neigbours to communicate with them, I fhall believe as Cyprian, that the fame reafon would at lead warrant the people to forfakc them, till you fhew reafon to the contrary. And you confeHj the Joannites reparation, and only fay that after they returned. It's true : But did they do well or ill before ? they returned not till gen-tlenef'j and honouring Chryfofiome reduced them : and though Cyril Alex, called thsm Schifmaticks and faid it was fitter the Church Canons fhould be kept,than fuch refractory Non-conformifts gratified by reftoring the honour of their ejefted Paftor, yet Ankm had more wit and honefty then to follow his Counfel or be moved by his Threat-ning : Our Cafe hath ten times more to be faid for it, than the Jom-fiites had, who were not caft out, but departed, nor had any Impofi-tions forced on them, which they took to be many hainous fins. Had you been impartial, you had eafily feenthis : But as C)'n7 and others' accufation of the Joannites^ as Separates and Schifmaticks, did not finally attain his ends againft the Joannites^ no more fhall yours a-, gainft the more excufable. In an Ale-houfe or Crowd of thedebauch-i ed or ignorant [They are PHritanSiVreshyterians^ FanatickstSefaratiflsy Schifmatkks-i Heretich^j Rogues'] is effeftual arguing and convincing, and fome Preachers it Teems take their hearers for fuch Judges; But men will be men, and reafon will'be reafon, and. truth will be truth, and innocency will be innpcency, and pride, and flander will fhame their Authors more than the flandered, when you and I are dead and gone. '''-'■^ '^ . . !' '

-..'§ 50. Serfri-'-p. 30. {^Butfitppofe thefirfl Churches were bare'y Con" *-'"gftg(itlondby'reafon'ofthefmall nnmber of Believers at that time, yet ^ vehat Obligation lies u^on m to diflurb the peace of the Church we live

* <w,' to reduce Churches to their infant State.~\ And here is mentioned • ' the- Community of Goods^ wajhing Feet, and then JUThey believe that the

* firfl Civil Government was appointed by God himfelf over families: Do

* they'therefore thinly themfelves bound to overthrow Kingdoms to bring

* things bachjo their firf inflitution^y &C.]

• Arif I . We call them not [barely Congregationafl but [ajfociatedfor prfanal Communion'} If all the Kingdom had but one Bifhop, that were another Species of Government and Communion than Parochial.

2. If one like you fhould plead for turning all the families m Lon^ ^n into one, and making only one Common Father or Mafter of all families, who fhould fend Stewards to every houfe, of his own making, to give them their victuals, he only being the proper Gover-nour, and this man fhould plead as you do, that it is difturbing the ^eace of the great family-i to reduce tnem to their Infant State, by reftoring

ftoring particular families, more wit or reputation than yours would not keep his caufe from ihame. Or if he pleaded that all the Schools in a Dioccfs, or many 10.0 or 1000, fhoald have but one Schoolmafter with Ufhers that have no power to take in or put out or ufc the Rod, and that to retrive this to the Infant ftate is feditious-, the rcafon o? mankind would fliame his rcafoning. And when men know what'Ba'' fioral Cmdance is, the cafe here will be as plain. . ;.

3. Our Reafon for defiring fnotthc Primitive paucity of Chrifli-ans, butj the Primitive form of Chrift is. 1. Bccaufe Chrift by his A-poftlcs inftituted it: (Mr. Thor/tdike once fpake well to that.) 2. Be-caufe we can prove that he was faithful in forming his.houfe and Church,as A'fefcs was informing that of the Jews. 3.Bccaufe we never heard it proved that man had power to alter what Chrift by his Spirit in the Apoftles founded: neither having their infallibility nor com-miflion. 4. At leaft wethink it isthe fureft way tohold to that which we are fure God fettled, till we can prove that men have power to change the very form.

4. Teach us what to fay to the Papifts, when they fhall accordingly fay to us '•y What though there was no Vniverfal Paflor in the Primi-

* tive times?\vhat though m^ny things in dtfcipline and worjijip be chanced ' Jince f IVhy mnflyou dijiurb the peace of the Church by reducing things to

* the infant State ? What though there were no Cardinals^ nor General

* Councils of Prelates to make univerfal Lawes for the Churches.^ what ' though the Sacrament was given in both kinds-, and there were no private

* AfaJfeSyor prayers for the dead ? mufi the Church bejitll in infancy? What ' though the Apofiles inflitiued the Lords day for publick^worjhip undholy *■ Commuinony Jnay not the Church put that down-, andfet up one day of her ' making once a month or year in [I cad of it ?

But I will not be one of thofethat wiW fight for man againi God -^ for I know who will overcome. If you can prove that Chrift gave your Church authority to pull down the Church Offices andform which he appointed, and fet up another, and call it the Churches growthy ox Q" mendation, I will obey them.

But I have elfcwhcre asked who they were that made your new Church form. If the firft Church ( of Gods making J it was only the uni/verfalheaded by Chrift,and particular Churches for perfonal Communion, if thefe made the new forms, tell us who, when, and by what power,and whv they may not unmake them, if there be caufe: and whether the efficient Church be not better then the effetlted : as the Parertt than the Child. If you fay that Bifhops of Parifhes did it by Confcnt in yiftaoM clfewhere above a thoufaad years ago, how. ccriTe \jQ^\ti England to be bound by thenjPlf you fay that Princes were the

makers

makers of the nevv Chnnh Species, i. Heathen Princes did it not. 2.The Bifhops will give you little thanks, if yoj grant not that it was done before there were any Chriftian Princes to do it. 3. One Prince cannot make Laws for anothcrs Country. 4. Prove that ever Chrift authorized Princes to change the Conftitution of the Churches inftituted by him, and make new ones above his form j except making officers for the Gr£^5<trr^ or variable accidents. 5. And what Princes do^ they have power to undo.

And it concenieth us to enquire fmuch more then about ceremo-Tiiesj how far this power of man extendeth. May they make as many new Church Species as they pleafe ? Why then may they not make as many forms as there are Kingdoms, if not an univerfal Pope by theconfentof moft ?

5. But that which the Papifts take for the Churches growth from Infancy, the PrOteftants take for its gradual depravation ^ And have written many treatifes to fhew when and how fuch corruptions were introduced : And the fore- mentioned book oiPaulns Sarpi Servita lately tranflated, tells us by what degrees much of that evil did fpring up, which fome take to be the Churches Man-hood, and the amending of rile defefts of Chrifts inftitutions.

6. And you that wonder that I know not what you mean by {jhe Church of England] may next wonder that I know not what it is that you call [jhe Proteftant Religion'] In my {_FhII S atisfafliorf] I have told you that I mean by it, fimple Chriftiamy exprejj'ed in the facred ScriptHres^ as the Recorded rule, with the reje^ion ojfaH humane additions tfhich fuppofe the Scriptures imperfe^ as to their regulating ufe: But if you (uppofc that men may, without any Scripture proof of authority,take down and change the Church Species, which Chrift by his Apoftles made, and make new ones inftead, and thus add to Chrifts Laws, e-qual, y ea faperior and derogating Laws of their own, this is not that Protefiant Religion which I am of, and therefore I intreat you to define what-it is you fb call.

7. When you have as well proved the very eflential form of the firft Churches to have been inftituted but pro tempore as a mutable thing-, isweoimprovethelikc of waflnngFeet-, and community of Goods-, we will'ilibmit. And fo we will when you have proved that God that ntadkfamilies made nofCities or Republicks, that is, did not inftitute civil Government of many families; or that men who.divcrfifie the forms of Republicks, may overthrow families or their proper power .♦ Yea and that God hath leffmen as much power to make new Species of Churches, as to diverfifie the Forms of Common-wealth.

8. And

Richard Baxtet*s Af;Jtvcr to Dr. Stillingfleet. 75

8. An^ as to our [jl'iftitrbing yoier feace~\ if you had built your frame on Chrifts foundation, and laid your peace on the unity of thefpirit, and the feven particulars named E^/^. 4. 45.^. and had not built it on uncharitablcne{s,on imperious ufurpation,nor that love of the world, whirh Vaul Strvita faith brought in the Church corruptions, you would not have been fo tender, nor your peace like an afpcnlcaf in the wind, as that your Brethren, who, you fay, agree in Dodrine and thefubOance of worfhip with you, cannot quietly joyn near you in the worfhip of God, without your impofcd words, and ceremonies, but they become dirturbcrs of your peace. Its a fickly peace*that is fo ealily diOurbed by fo fmall diflent. As Home thinketh that all wrong her that do not obey her, and pleadctli (or Empire under the name of Communion, fo do fome others > and will enter a fuiteagainihhem as5'c/;//wt7//ci^/, that will not let them ride and lafli them without complaint. If you have the humility and Charity of a Chriftian, without cnvy,^^^. What harm doth it do you that I and fuch others worfhip God in another room, without your book, while your Church is as full as it can well hold? Do you not dilfer much more among your felves, as I before fliewcd ? And the Papilis yet more among thcmfelves ? and yet are in one Church, and tollcrated. But fo their Porver and jyiUs may be o-bcycd, (bme men can bear with much more againft God. Who hcareth fuch out-crics againfi ten thoufand or twenty thoufanJs in a Parifh that come not to any Church at all, as againft a few Chriftians that pray and preach without your book ? what Informers, what indidmcntSjwhat profecutions, what invedives are equally againft all thefe aforelaid ?

'■§.51. Serm./*. 31. [^It is very uncertain whether the Primitive form ' were [uch as they fancy, dec. but it is certainly our duty to preferve peace ' and unity amonrfi Chrijitans'],

Anf. I. The^n it is certainly a fin to make racks to tear them, and make concord impoilible, and fay, none (liaU have Communion with us, that Will not fay and Swear what we bid them, and that think any thing fin which weimpofe i and to fliut men out by Can-nonical Excommunication, and then call them Schifmaticks in Prcfs and Pulpit not for coming in.

2. If it hQ uncertain whether that which we dcfire be iht Primitive form, it is uncertain then tvh.':ther you oppofenotand fight not a-gainlUhc Primitive form.

3. what you fay is uncertain I fliall God willing prove certain clkwhcre f and liavc dc ne}. All is not uncertain to othus which is

f© to you.

K 4. Mark

4. Mirk this, you that are for the Divine righ of Epifcopuy jt $Ik FrifHttii'e fyrn imitnted hyCbrijls As h:; takcth it \ox unccrtjin fas beyond Congregarional formsj, fo wc'-c it fo, if the Churcli IhouM caft it out, he fccmcth to hold your endeavours, to reduce it, to bealinful breaking of the Churches peace. You are diiiur-bers if in HoVand^ Gtnevj^ Hdvettj^ you would reduce theiti to that which you fuppofe tobLMhet^rimitive form. It tmy be it n?j§ but from the circumjhvices of the timer : And fo the head of the Church hath made no particular Church Species^ but left all to the better wit of rren (who knows to whom). ^ ^

'^52. Scim. \_lt is impcffihle foto dn.if men brc.i\ all orders in pieces,

* for tbefcific\i they have taken 7(p of a Vrimitiic Platform J.

Anf, Anglice^ [li is impolTible to prejcrve Peace and unity among Chrijiians^ if men will not fuppofe that Chrili never inftitutcd his own Church forms, or will not forfake his Inftitutions, but farcy that they mulcbe conformable thereto, and will not prefer the wills and commands of Bifliops to whorn they never confented, and take it TO b« a breaking of all orders in pieces, not to do all that they en-joyn us, though wetakeittobe heynous fin, and will not give o-ver Gods worlhip and our Mmiftry when they forbid us. Dan. 6, iVe (l}all find no fa^lt againfi this Daniel, except it be concerning the Law of his God, but it ht pray openly when torbiddtn, away with liim to the Lyons tor the Laws of the Medes and Fcrfians are more in-llcxible than Gods.

§ 53. As to what you fay o^preferring Morals and the ends it \s more truly than prudently mentioned as to your caufe.; for the wr)) naming of it will niake tht Readers think, rvkether your fuhfcription and declarationimdoaths and irr pofcd pracftices, which the Nonconronpi/is judge unlawful, be greater m.atters than their preaching th Go/j el, avoiding great (ins. the concord and itrength *f the Proteliant Churches, and the avoiding teniptations to wrath, and perfecution and divifions which will be bitttr in the latter end. Co learn ivbat this meaneih I will have mercy and not Sacrifice > for needlcls Ceremony).

'^.34, Serm.p. ^2. l_Men may pleafe themfelves in talking of preferv' ' i?ig peace and Love under Jepcrate Communions ; Bhi our own fad ex-^perience Jhews- the contrary: For as nothing tends more to unite mens hearts ^tban joyningtogether in the fame Prayer and S icrammts s fo nothinirdoth ' more alienate mens affeCiions^ than rviihdrairing from each ether into fepa*

* rate Congregations'],

Ajif I. But do all feparate from yoa that are in other Parish Churches than yours ? if not, do all feparate th^t diiier, as Cathredrals

from

Richnrd BaxtcrV u4;//nfy/^D;'. StilJingficet. 75

from ParifaChurches, or as conforming Vrejcbersdo from one ano" tJitr ? U not, do thty fcparatc that i.imt a fcrmor ceremony of yours.?* 2. lamforry^ it you havccxpericiice of the alknatingof yortraffe' ciions ht myoirneighbours, that quietly vvorfhIpGod by you: but its like you know w hat you fay : for my part many oi tliciti have fiid anci writfen n.ore againit mc, then againft you, and, I thank God, I love them heartily '■> yea and that ^our own party from whom I have fulfer-€d far miorc.It is mcnsoifeafcs that make tliem impatientof a crofsopi-nionor word orcenfure.and then they cry out of mens unpcaccabkrefs: AsSeneca fa ith Xhcy that are fore complain if they but thinkjheir fore if touched,

3. Let the Magilhates keep Peace and punilh ali that abulc their bretheri.n.

4. But we eafily grant to you, that when men do not only differ, but fly from each others Ccn,mnnion as unlawful, it hath a great tendency to the alienations and evils which you mention. Had we not thought £0^ we had never Hoopt, and pleaded, and bcgg'd of the Bi-fliops top event orhcalit as we did i<55o, and i5<5i. And wo to the impenitent that are the cgufeof all, and to this day will not be per-fwaded by ail the fad experience that they complain ' i\

Sir, mdead of all youraccufations and reafonings, it would have better difpatched all the buiincfs, wou'd you but confider,. who it it that trrtfi cure thedifiance rvhichy^u catnp'ain of? I liave fully proved to you in mjy book ot Concord that rve are utterly ufiahfc to remedy it. If you will not know, who can make you know. Do you thm'k, that vvhen y<^u fay to all the Land {_fay and do all that is impofcd^ or yoit /hall not be aimit ted to our Communion'] that it is morally poifible to make all good Chridiansagree in believing that it is all lawhil/ or to make them all do that which they think to be unlawful i I mull freely fell>ou, that he that thinks that his own or any others reafon-ings will ever fo far change all the truly honell Chriliians in the Land, knoweth (olittleof matters, men or Confcience, as that he is unmeet io be a Bifliop or a Priell.

But is the remedy impoflTibk to the Impofcrs? I amafhamedto debate the Queftion : But fomc men arc fo learned and wifc^that they will not Quecch the hre in a City, nor fave the Ship from finking, nor forbear fencing ChridsMinillcrs and fcatteringtheflocks^aslong as they can but fay, 7^tc trill fuch or fH:h an inconvenience follorv. It wo«ld coll you nothing to cure all this, which it is impoliible for us to cure. Therefore all your juft aggravations of the mifchietsot fchifm or reparation fall where it conuerne^.h foniC ot you to look to it, il you believe that there is a future judgment? rathti than to call your felves Schifm atidks uridcr the name of others, and put God and man to fay, Ihuart the man. K 2 §55'^'*^^*

j6 Richard Baxter' j Anfiperto Dr. StUlingflect.

(55. Tag. ^^, You come tome, for denying that I feparatecaufe* lefly irom the "• Cemmunian of tr;teChHrches, or {et up AnticbKrches^ *'[though C fay you) they Prcjch when and where it is forbidden by Latp^

* and adminijicr Sja'anieatf by other KmUs snd after a different manner tkm

* it hit oitr Ch:trchrecf!tireih : 7'his is not dcalingwith hs rv'tb that fairncf}

* and insenuity vehic') o'ur former bretheren ufcd they deny the faU which

* is evident to all per fans : For do they not the Z'ery fame things and in tlyt

* fame manner that the others do ? How comes it to be thm fiparatinn in

* fome and not in others ? Jhey are very unwilling to cmfcjs a fep iratim btf *caufe tbey hai'e formerly condemned it with great feverity^ and yet they do

* the fame things for which they c^jarged others as guilty of a fvij id feparati^ 'on.1 And I am cited.

A/if. I. This is like H. Foivlis ', T'he Puriijns are the rvorjl men on earth: The Papifts, are far prefer'd before thcm.Becaufe tht Pap/Jh differ in fun-d^mmtals^ but the Puritans take mafsfor a Ceremony, So we are the mo/i difuigenuoiis and not fair dealers ,th3it own them to be true Churches and Miniiicrs and hold Communion with them i and yet deny that we are Schifmaticks or (eparate : We leave you therefore, to treat with the leiTer diftngenuous and the fair dealers,that fay you are no true Minifteis nor is it lawful to have Comunion with men that openly avow fuch hainous fin,and covenantagainft ever endeavouring to reform notorious Church "corruptions: becaufc with fuch we are forbid even to eat and commanded from fuch to turn away i It's well you have fome more ingenuous and lair dealers than I am.

But thedifingenuiry ismy denying your accufation : I heard ofa Gentleman that could lilence any man ; and his way was, he would accufe him (of Murther, Adultery, Theft or what his caufe required) and if he denied it he would fay i [^whatwillyoumakeme a Lyar ? T'o give m2 the Lie deferveth afiah.'] It is not only a crime if we do not tQto peViore telum recipere^ or with C^w2r<? unbutton our felves and fay feri mifer^ot when ever we are beaten,confcfs that wedefcrved it: It's an odd kind oi fuit for a man that calleth an innocent man traytor^ to bring his action againfi him, for faying, you jlander me. But it is the name or thing that we mufl; not deny. We will gratifieyou in the firft '.I do feparate from your Church,by half a miles diftance,an«l by going to roy own Parifh, and by preaching my felf, and fo do moft of the Parifh Preachers, that will not fit hearing you when they. fliould Preach. But it is de re . And what is it, Firli I muft tell the matter of fad : I never took any paftoral charge the fe twenty years» g at hered no Church : I never baptized oncperfon : I never admi-niftrcd the Lords Supper onqe, inabou eighteen ©r nineteen years » bttt of kCQ icldoin to.iorae fewjfiace ^ged weak peyfons who werein my

houfe

ftoufc, and near, who gave me fpecial rcafbn for it i and the Liturgy allowcth it to the lick and all their friends that joyn with llicm: whTie I lived at Adon and T'oteridge I went twice each Lords day to the pub-lick Church, even to the beginning; Here I go when I am able ufua-ly once a day to hear the Parfon of the Parilh ; and I communicate with them in the Sacrament; I preach twice a week in another mans Pulpit f borrowed) moil to Grangers that I have no more to do with : My gain I thank them, the accufer put me not to cxcufc : I write and preach againftSchifm and all unjuft fcparation, and per-fwadc all to go no turther from any than they go frcmChril^, or than they drive us away, or than we needs muR, to avoid adual fin. Well > row what is the crime of fcparation r*

1. Iprejcb Cyou fay) rfbcn and rvhcre it is forbidden by Law.'] Anf. Is this the formal rcjfoncf Jcparation? Then dif)bcdicncc and fcparation are all one. I fuppofe you mean the Law ot the King and the Parliament, and not the CanonsXave as by them made Laws: when I had given you fo many Hiftorical inftances of the ancient BiOiops and Chriftians,doing the like, and juIliHed commonly by the Church: did you think while you lilently pafs all that over, and all the reft that I faid for my juftitication, that two lines of your faying was enough toconfuteall.'*Certainly it was not me that you meant to fatisHcjnor any impartial man that had read my books. This dealing bcfeem-eth, not (o weighty a Caufc. You fecm to fay \_^All preacbing when andrvhereit is forbidden by Larv^ isfmfidfeparaiion: Uut^ 6cc. I deny the Major. The Primitive Preachers did fo for three hundred years : The Orthodox dii fo afterwards under Conjiantiiif Vatens, Thcodoft' «f junior, Anajlaftus^ Philipicus^ Jtijiinianand mzny more: The Albi-genfes, fValdetiJts and Bohemians did Co: The Reformers did (b : The Protcflants when the Interim was impofed did fo: Epifcopins juftiHeth it at large, and the Arminians in Belgia, did fo : The Martyrs in F«^-land and elfewhere did fo. The Jefuits in the Eaji Indies did to* But what if the Law forbad you to preach at a certain hour— do you fcparate from the Church, if youmifs your hour? They that Preacht Afternoon Sermons when forbidden were taken for di (obedient, but not for fcparatills. And what if when the Churches here were birrnt the Minilkrs had read the Liturgy and preacht in a place forbidden by the Law ; Had that been fcparation ?

And how cometh [when"] and [ivhere'] tobeiri, "When we are forbidden every time and in everyplace, topreach to'more tiwn four? Is any time or place allowed us to preach in? You mean \_He is afepa^ ratiji rvhopreachtth beingforbidden by Law: But lam ready to give you a fuller proof than is now to be offered on this occalion, that no man

K 3 hath

yS Pvichard BaxtcrV At7(ivcr io Dr, Stlllingflect.

hath authorrtv to forbid a faithful Mhri(icr nfChriil^ irho forfeiteih not hif Office-poncr^ to-perform the offii c to rvhich i-eis ordained. And, 5^e-cond ly, that rve remain under a Pivine obU^atinn to it. n-hich Jitch a Law cannotdi(p?lve^ As Ein^op Biljon^ hAi>XL laiili^ ;t Princestorbid us, we mujigo on with our worh^, what i\ the K. ng lud turned againlt Fpif-copacy and Liturgy, and torbdd all the Epifcopal to preach , Would you think it ImtuI ilpi-ation to preach ? By this >ou (hew howeadly you would lay down the work' cuare V(nvt.d to, ifthe Law did but forbid you, Huw much than arc Tapilt and Proteftanr Cadifts mi-itaken, tha fay the Law is null that is againil the common good, and that all power is only to edification.

And what limits do you fet to this ? Till you tell us, how can we judge of our reparation ; what It" an interdi(ft filcnce all tnc Mini-iters in a Kingdom, muft all obey ? What itit be moft, mull moft obey } What it it be more then can be fparcd with.out the Churches wrong? And whofe Laws be they that fo binds us? Is it Inhdel Princes or only Chriftians ? Is it Papifis, Arrians, Eutychian*, &c, or only the Orthodox ? And do you (et the people all to judge whether the King be Orthodox, as the rule ot their obedience to his Laws? If I prove not that God bindeth me to preach, call me difobedient, but yet that will not prove me a fcparatiil.

Ey this rule you may be a feparatifi:, as oft as the Law changeth, if you will not change as fail as it. Yea though you Judge the Laws impofitions to be hainous (ins, yet you mutt dothem all, or give over your Mini/try; And fo God mull ask leave of the Rulers to be wor-fhipped as God, It he were a God of their making, they might put him down.

And, / think, it will prove confufion and worfe difobcdience than our preaching \s^ to lay all the peoples obedience herein on their opinion of the Rulers Orthodoxntls; no doubt, but the heathen and heretical Rulers are Governours even of the Church, though none f-ath power fordelirudlion or againit God. The Duke of Brandenhargbs Subj( ds judge him not Orthodox: Arc they therefore abfolvtd from obeying him in matters ot Religion ? Calveniji Subjecfts think Luthe^ rane Princes not Orthodox h and Proteiiants, in France^ Hungary^ Po" land J )i dge their Papift Kings not Orthodox ; Yea, what it we judge the biihopsnot Orthodox that made the Cannons or Liturgy, are we abfolved irom obeying them ? And what it any Subjects think tnat tht Kjng IS not Orthodox ? ^nd Parliaments, who alfo m-ake our Laws, contain mcu of many minds: And the Parliament oi \6^o, is (aid by the Bi(hops to have been tar from Orthodox, even to have bi^cnPreibyttriaDs^and Errailiansjand even for Rebellionjand yet they

made

made divers Laws which the King confcntcd to and ratified : Were not men obliged by thoieLaws ? And indeed it the Law-inakcrs being not Orthodox null his Laws aboui Religion, why net all his other Laws?

But it mav be you will fay, that it is not all the people that nuift judge whether the King and Parliament be Orthodox, but the Bi-ihops for them. ^nC. £ut v\hofliall judge whether the Eilhops be Orthodox ^ And if all berefolvcd into the implicitebclief ot the Bi-fhops, why not of the civil Rulers as well ? Or why not as thePa^ji /ts on Popj and Councils ?*

I fuppofe to avoid all this you will not fay, that he is a lepararifl that prcachcth when forbidden by any Prince whatfocvcr, Turk, Hca^ then, Arrian Eutychian,Idolater, Papift. Where then will you hx the notifyingCharadler? All men are heterodox in fome deg^rce, Hgw fhall we know the degree which abfalveth us from oyr obedience!*

And how cometh an Orthodox man to be authorized to do mif-chiets and (orbid the needful preaching of thcGofpcl any more than aheretick? or a Chriftian more than a Heathen? Lthink he is bound to do more good then they, and not authoriz' d to do more hurt. God never made him a judge whether the Gofpel ftiall be prcacht or not, nor whether the people (hall befaved, or let to peri.h in their ignorance and fin.

Eirher then all are feparatlfts that preach againfl the Laws of Heathens, HLreticks or Papilts: And fo theOrtliodox Churches have in many ' r iiiolt Ages and places been leparatilb: Or elfe we arc calt .upon con'oundi ig impuiiibilities to know who the fcpara-tift is

Efpeciilly in A i})rf >cic{ and Democ/'jcier^ where the Rulers are of n^iany iinnds, ana uv. peoplecin never know them all, nor wh«.n the Orthodox,have rheM')or^(?^e.

And ! would know, whether it be only Rightful Princes or alfoll-furpers, vvhoL Laws are the bond of the Churches Unity. Ifof Ufur' pers,thcn all the Prelates that conformed not in the times ot the lat^e-Ufurpation wcr'. Schifmatical feparatifts by your definition: But to do them right, few of my acquaintance that could by conformity flay in. did then rerufe contormiry : 1 hear that you were then no fe-piratili. But Bifhop G;//7«/«g, Dr.TF//^, Dr. H/'^c and agfcatmany more, took another courfes and will not thank you if you lligmatize them with us. But it it be not the Laws ot lllurpers in the Roman Empire by your meafurc i How few were the Emperours that came notinbymecrconquelljOr by killing, putting out the eyes, or ejedl-

ing

ing their predeceffors, or without any juftifiable right .? And what a cafe Kome^ hal)\ Spam and Africa were in after the firft conqucfts of the Gothes and Vandals, diud all the Weflern Empire in the days of the Henries, Frederick^ and many others, while men were fighting for the Empire, and Popes claimed the making and unmaking of ihem all? And even in France cvcx fince the days of Chilferic for many Ages, c-fpccially among the progeny of Charles the great, it is not to be hid : This way youdeftroy or confound the Thurches.

I cannot imagine what you will reply to this ? llnlefs you fay that, \_it is neither the 'Title, nor the Orthodoxnefs of Princes, which is necejfary to mak^ their Lan-es the bond of Church unity: but it is the goodnef} of their Laws: at leafi that they impofe no fm upon us"]. Anf. i . Then if the U-furpers impofed no fin, they were Schifmaticksthat obeyed them not. 2. Let that be the rule; who fliall be judgeiwhcther it be fin or not? If I be a difcerner for my felf,I have told you how much and great fin I fear, till you are difpleafed with the intimation; And when you have proved all ihofe particulars named, to be no fins, you have done more th:n yet is done : And if you think you can or do prove it, muft none haveChrifiian Communion who thirkyour proof invalid, and that you do it worfe than Bilhop Taylor that maintained hurtlefs lying?

§.55. But the other halt of thcdefinitionof a feparatiftis \jhey adminifler Sacraments by other Rules and after a different manner than what the Church requireth,

Anf, I. why will you (b reproach 5 our Church?we do it by no other rule but the<9cr//?f«rejand doth not theChurch require that theScripture be a Rule? Yuu know Folydore Virgil and other Papifis, ordinarily make the fignal difference ofProteilants andPapiils,thattheProtcfiantsmake the Scripture the only Rule of their Religion ; On which fuppofiti-onFrancisFeron ioxme:dh\% adof difputmgagainflthem. And are not the Church of England Protcftants ? If you add another rule, it followeth not that we have another than you have, though you have another befides what we have.

2. You (ay [jve deny the fa£i n>hich is evident to all per fans'] and ycu fpeakof me : Is this true? What Sacraments do you mean? I never ordained any : I never confirmed any: I have married very few, if thofe be Sacraments: I have baptifed no one thele twenty years: I gave the Lords fijpper to none for about eighteen years, and rarely fince as I told you. But, others do ? Anf. And if they have no better reafonto juiUfie the forfaking of their Miniftry than you give, well may they go on to do it.

3. Do you mean hereby [K^/erx] the fame as before by [^Laofisl

or

Richard Baxter'/ Atifitcr io Dr, Stillingflcet. Si or what ircan you /* I luppofe it's the Canon and Liturgy that you mean. And if by the [Church'] you mean any thing but the King and Tarliammt )0\x are unintelligible : FortheChurch hath buttwovili-ble dicni ial parts, the Regent and the SuhjeCi parts. And of the Regent only the fupream is cllential, the rclt being alfo fub)cd:s, and but Integrals: And it is a |[K«7«/r//;^^ Church which you mention. And fo it fctmeth that it is but ^Uy Church'. And nothing but a C/jr/j^/-an Kingdon.

4 i have toM you that the YroKh and Dutch Churches here admi-nilttr the Sacraments by another rule than your Liturgy, and yet are no Schifmaticks.

5. And ^ cur rule hath rr any parts; It rcquircth Preaching, praying." risd ng the Ffalms and two Chapters, and delivering baptifrn and the Lords Supper in Chrills words, and repeating ?hc Creed, the Lords Piaycr and the Decalogue. And all that Ido when 1 officiate tor any man (tor 1 have no Church,) and others doit tvith whom I converic. But if it be omitting <aw^ r/.wgelfe in your rule that mak-£th a reparation, what is it ? I ott hear Conformifls omit divers prayers. I have feen Dr.H(7r/(?/2 give the Lords Supper, I think, to the greater part that (ate. I doubt CiOlt Parilhes fepcrate, if every 0-iiiiilion makcafeparatii}.

6t But thus far you (at is fie me, that you judge all for fcparatiftj [[that preach without all your Afl'cnt, confent, fubfcriptions, that the Covenant bindeth no ii.an living, no not the Parliament m.en that took it, to endeavour any alteration of Church Government, that it is not lawful torefift anycomm.iflloned by the King, (without exception jar.d much more luch : That allarefeparatiibihat adminilkr not Sacran cnts according to your rule, which pronounceth baptized Infants faved fo dying, without excepting v^//.v//f/, 7;;^^f//, or any, aid this as undoubted at:d certain by Gods word* which rcquireth the Miniftcr torciufe Baptifm and Chriiicndom, where the dedicating In age of the Crcfs is not fubmittcd to, when the Parent ora-dult judge it an unlawful Sacrament: And where Baptifm mv\i\ be dcni.d to all that will not rnakc Godfathers and Godmothers the Sole Covenanting undertakers for their Children, without fpeakinga C-o* vcnantingword themlclves: And when your rule requireth all Mi-ni/lers to denySacramental Communion to all that fcruple kneeling in (he, reception, and yetcxcommunicateth them aiid ruineth the ri for not CoiT.^nunicating when they are rejtded: And i\ioipjo fado Ex-cpn;municate: To omit much more fuch. this is your rule, which he that fwcrv^th from ir,is afcp^raiifl.

7. Et^t

S2 Richard Baxter'/ Anfmrio Dr. Stillingfleet.

7. But I had thought that we had not been like thofe late cavilling Pap-Its that will not dif(ir;guifli/)r«^47Wf«ra//from any little points left it lofe them a paultry advantage ot abiilng men. Doth not every good Law and Rule dillinguilh between Ejfenti.^lf^ Integrals^ arid Ac cedents^ and make more Accidents than are Inte^rals^ and Integrals^ than are EfTentials ? And doth your rule do othervvifc > If not, tell us what parts of your rule are necc/Tary to one, and what to the other, or you fay nothing to rcfcflve the cafe. Is every line and Ceremony Efiential to the Church, and to each member ? If not, howcometh our omitting a form of Ceremony to cut usort" asa feparated Church any more than every breach of Law cuts orf a man from the Common-wealth?

Yea, if your Church be but aChriJliaH Kingdoms^ do not you cut oif all from that Kingdom too, that refufe your forms or Ceremonies orSubfcriptions ?

8. But Sir, to be fhort with you, I tvill yet believe that Chriji if the InlHtHtor of the Church j and that he hath hinifelf made Laws which are fufficicnt to be at leail the bond of their unity, yea for more thdin E^entials^ even thQ Integrals^ and many Accidents*, and hath given Laws to regulate all mens Laws that determine of needful undetermined accidents; And that no man Hiould B^'cut off frpm the Church or taken as (eperated that breaketh no Law of God, yea thofe that are necciTary to Church unity and Commdnion : And that the grand Schifmaticks of the world, are the Engineers that £abr icate needlefs, impolTible dividing terms and condition'^ of unity and Comtiunion.

^. 57. But you tell me that [we do the fame things in fhe fame rnm" tier as thefeparat.ijis : Ergo rve are difingenuous for denying your accufa-tion.]

Anf. I. Judge of the fa(^ by what is faid. . 2. We do not fay, i. That you are no trueMinifiers or Chur-chcf. 2. Nor that itisunlawtul to communicate withyou: Erg^ it is not true that we do the fame things.

3. But it is the External all ion [the whole fame"] that makcth a fepa-ratiit. AParfon in the Ale-hou(e, loft hjs Common-Prayer book : When he came to Church, he told them his miftiap, and only read what was in the Bible, ^^ry whether his flock and he were fepara-tiiis ? An old Parfon. that I was bread under,could fcarce fee, but could fay moft oi the Prayers without book; He (aid what he could remember, and got a day Labourer one year, and a Taylor another to; read the Chapters: ^icry^ Whether we were all leparatifts?

§ j8. But

Richard BaxterVAyJ^^r to Z>/. ^tiJiingficGt. ^^

♦ 58. But you undertake fotcll the Reafon why I am mirvWinT to wnfejs ajeparatton, becaufe rve hsveformerly fever ely condemned it in ethers andy^t do the fame thiogs foravbich tve charged others as guilty of a fmfid feparatifn, £> ^ j j j

Anfro, If this be net true,it is not well i fliew me where, and prove when I evercondeinned any for the fame that I do, or clfe take more heed what you wiite hereafter.

§ 5^. Serm. p. 33 [For tlie Affcmhiy of Divines ur^ed their diffcntinz Brethren to comply mth the Rules of Government, and char^red them mth Scbijm, if they did not, &c.

Anjw. 1. It's a foul mifhkc in matter of Ea(f^, if you think that I rvas of that Affcmbly.y^tz,ot anyone of them j or that what they did,! did; or thofe of my acquaintance did it. And it is not much better to pretend that I or (hey were in all things of their mind : doth the AfTem-blits judgement concern me any more than you ? Did not you conform to f htm as much as I did ? t^ * .'.^'^'

2. Hut what mean you to wrong yourHearers by fuch grofs confu-fion tojoyn m your Application Dr.On.Y«and we, fand Mr. Corbet I think) with the Afllmbly, when ir is publickly known that in thofc rcatters we were of three feveral opinions: ( And who are they that differ not in as great matters }J

( I ) It's known that except feven or eight, the AfTembly men were all Conformijls when they came thither : And either they were fuddenh cbingedornoi: if noz,they v;„rc ConfonwjhiMll and then no wonder that they were of your mind.

Aiid indeed. I know that they were not all of one mind: Moft of them were moderate Conformijh that thought it lawful, but that were n-.uch better be without it,than make it a fnare to iJienccMini/lers and divide the Church, and therefore were glad that it was laid by • Such were Mr. Vn:es, Mr. Brrrgc/s, and, I tiiink, moll Some were for Dr. Stillinffleet s way, that no one form of Church Government was of Chrifts command,but all left to prudence as civil Government is; Such was Dr. Edward Rci^nolds and fomc others i fome were for the fole Government ot the Magifiracv,called ErajVumiSuch was Mr thomis Cc/fm^,7,and how many more I know not-Manyof the Parh"ament liked thtfe Men bJi: And thefcm-realfo for an indifferency of the Clergy rorm : And when Mr. CoUman waschofen ro give the Covenant to the heule of Lords, thcytook itonhisExpohtion, that it meant not the Excluhon of the Prunitivef.pifcopacy : fome were more tenaci--pusotthc Primitive Epifropjcy, and about ro thter a protelbtion for -iti but that It was declared th^t only the Englilh form as deferibed in the Concatenation r^as excluded: Thefe were Dr. C<.m/. Burges, the ex-

^ ^ cclJent

§4 Richard Baxter'/ Anfaer to Dr. Stillingflect. eel lent TTj^jw. Gatak^er^ and many more » And fome few were (eft the Vivinerisjjt ofPrerhytery Tand after more :) And the five diffenters an*d Mr. Philips were Independents. But take thctn as Confoinijhj as E-njlunf, znd as Indifferent, and judge whether they were not more of your judgmcnr, then of Dr-Ome/r's or M ne, and it'sno dillionourto you; fori think I have not read of many AfTcmblicsof worthier meA hnce the /^/^rtjL'ex days : But they were but men.

But rf indeed they were all (itddenly changed fmn Conformity to Fresbytery^ when thf y came to WejlminiUr ■•, what a difhonour is fuch mutability to Conformijls ? And how little hold is there of thCtn \ if fo ffiany oFthe beft of them willfo eaiily change with the times, What wonder if you (hall do lo ?

2. And as tor Vr.Owen^ he was known to joyn with the Inde* pendents; And furc you will not interefs him in the Aflcmblics Judg-anent.

3. And Mr. Corbet and I are of one rhind i And I thought that the truth was divided between the three parties,and that all of them wanted nece0ary skill and diligence for the healing of thole divilions and the concord of the faithful; And the event excufed me in thatccn-liare. And now, is the Synods Judgment more ours or yours ?

(2,) But either this ^'yw-s^ were in the right or not: If not, why then will you follow them, or plead their teftimony > If yea, then they did well in being againftthe Liberty of the Frelatijh alfo.

(3.) But is it p( (Tible that you can exped that men fhould believe, that their Cafeand ours are the fame, or that cither All muft be tolc-*-rafedor«Me that conform notj and that the bare talking for or a--^ainlt Toleration, without diftinguiiliing the Tolerable from the-In*. tolerable, doth tend to mens Edification i* He that will tolerate all, is badi and he that will tolerate none that dilfer, is mad. Asit'saniH argument, Vefptehahentfavos^ & apes hahent favos i Ergo vefp£ fknt a-pes: So It is not a^ooi one to fay, f-f^ajps Ne{is Jhonld be dejireyed:. £r|j'7 S«-7;/m fl"»ouldbe defiroyed.

§ <5o. But reherein lay the different Cafes ?

Anf,. In many things and great, however you untruly make thenfi like.

Firfi the AlTembly never endeavoured to turn the Independents out of the Parifh Churches, and benefices, nor tolilcnce them, forbidding them publick preaching, as you do us i but only would hinder theiii from gathering Churches out ofother mens Parishes.

2. The AfTerribly put on the Independants, no Oath» no Declarati-: Gn,Protefrion, Subfcnptiou: or Covenant as necelTary to their Mini-dry, whidi both fides confeljed not to be lawful > and (b would have

Richard Baxter'/ Anfmi- u Tir. Stillingfleet. 85

impofed DO pofitive bond which they fcrupkd, but only the faid O* miffion of their promifcuous unlimited Church-gathering^.

5. They impoied no Liturgy, no one Ceremony, no pradiicc on them, contray to their Confciences.

4. They urged them to declare but what Limits they would allow to their Church-gathering Liberty ithat it might not extend toHerc-ticks and the intolerable, and cculd not prevail i Judge now whether thefe Cafes are of any kin? Save in the (rc;;wof not allowing unlimited Toleration, which we hold to as well as they. Grant us leave to Preach in the Publick Churches, and to be capable of guiding re(ormed Parifti Churches, yea, or but to Preach or Officiate Publick-ly for nothing, though wc live on Aims and beg our Bread, and we will thank you; Yea, though you hold us to all the termes and con-certions in the Kings Declaration about Ecclefiaftical Aflfairs: And is this like the Cafe oi the Affembly, that never oftercd either to lilencc an Independent, or forb'd himParfonages, Ledurcs , Collcdg preferments, or impofeon himany onefcrupled promife, profellionor pradice ?

And yet I again fiy, both fides were faultily wanting in x\\z knowledge and ufe of thcterms of Peace.

k^6i. Scrm. p' S'y- l_ ^^^ thit rphjtever falfe colours and pretences Jome men maks «/^ ^f ^^ ju^ifie their prcfent prj&ices^ if the ind^ment of their ow'i Brethren maybe tj}{c-n^ "'tis no better than plain and down-right fepantion. J-

Anf. I. Were they not as much j£7;/r Brethrems mine, and nearer to your Judgment?

2. Let the Reader judge, whether it be half fo great feparation ordinance, as the Conformijh have among thcmfclves, while one part fay that their Church is but Lay in the EflTential Hr^d, an) theo--ther halt fay, IlisClergy^^nd fo are really ot two Churches: And when * one party faith, if the King and the Eilhops Command contrary Tran-flations, Verfions, Times, Places,Liturgics, and modes of vvor(hip,thc Eifhops are to be obeyed before the King, and the other faith the King is to be obeyed before the Bilhops, To omit abundance of greater differences than fome would pcrfwadAicn is between us and tliem.

§ <^2. Serm. [_And I mnjl needs fay^ T never fan? any Ca^tCe more nreak^ b ^^f nded^ no not that of Polyg.wiy and Anabaptifme^ than that of thofe rvho allow it to be Lawful to joyn in Co^mnniompith its^ and y^t go ibotft to vindicate the feparate Meetings among us from the gniIt of a finful Se-^J-raiion. ]

^nf» I* Ihavclong.obfcived, whenfomcmenpafsa fentence on

others, and call them by reproachful names, it ordinarily more truly fhewcth what the fpeak^r is^ than what the Pcrfon or Caufe is that he fpeaks of ; For it i« fo natural for the dreams to be like the Spring, and the fruit like the Tree, and the mouth to fpeak from the abundance of the heart, that one may much conjcd-ure what the Sptik^ is by his words: But what the Caufe and Man is that he fpeakethof,yGu can little know, while the fpeaktt oft little knoweth it himfelf, or would not have another know it. Neither your conhdcnce nor mine will determine a wife Reader.

§ 63. To-pig, 5<5 lAnfwer, 1. Your Text is (b clear and full 3 Confutation of your Sermon, that it's hard to know how a mind not (Irongly prejudiced could have preached (uch a Sermon, or pleaded for the filencing of fo many fuchMiniders fromfuch a ttxf'i Yea or can need any more to confute you than to read your Text: i. It is fuppofed that it was All that had attained to t e truth of Chriflianity that muft walk by the fame rule. 2. It was a Divine Rule then known. 3. They were to bear with each other in loving Communion while they grev/ up fo more. If this condemn not making and impofing new humane unnecefTary Rules, containing that which multitudes of impartial Confcionable men as wife as their Reproaches cannot cxcufe ^rom fuch heynousfin, and filcncing and excommunicating all that obey them not, and when they forbid tl:em Com^iunion, call them Separarids i I do dcfpair of underrtanding fence.

And to pag. 37. Wccome as near you as we can in Confcicnce y and we know our own Confciences bitter than yon do. But whether you condemn not your felvts as Separatifis in denying commitfiion where we preach as if you only were the Church, and any tha: want but your Liturgy were none. Yea when we had the Licenfe of the King > unbyafied men will beable to difcern.

(^ 64. Serm. pag. 37. [_B./f why then is th'ps k^pt Of fuch a mighty fecret in the Brcajis of their Teachers ? lf^h\ do they not Preach it to them in their Congregations ? // it for fear they jhniild have none left to Preach to ? That is not to be imagined of Morticed and Confcientious men : // it leji they Jljould fecm to condemn them!elves while they Preach againfi Separation in a Separate Congregation ? This , / confefs , loo}{f odly \ and the tendernfs of a mans mind in fuch a Cafe^ may out of meer jhamt" f^ced/iefs k^ep him from declaring a truth rvhich flies in his face rpbik he^fpeik^it^

tY 4"f I. Alas,, you Hiew us, that feme men perceive not when it flyeth in their faces. , £ Reader, hence take heed of Believing word:; of Reproach againft Advcrfaries , when Interir and Sideing hath made-men'partial. Would you think'that ull this intimated flencc

were

were an untruth againft publick^ Tejiimmy.

I.I have many and many times declared in print what he intimat • eth that we dare not Preach. And is not Trinting a far more Publick declaration, than fpcakingit in one Roorrj ?

' 2. When I begin to Preach at St. James's, I read a ProftfTion fo the Congregation openly, that I preacht not thcYe as to a feparatc Churcli, but as in concord with all Chrilh Church on Earth, for the ncccrtityof the People that had not many of th m lieard a Sermon many a year, the Parifli having 4CCC0 if not 5ccoo Souls more than could hear in the Parilh Church.

3. I built aChappel by money parrly begg'd, and partly 10 my greater lofs than I will mention, that I might but have hclpt thofe reedy Souls for nothing : For the fecond Sermon, one that Preacht formeCthat had fuffered imprifonment for the Kings CaufeJ was fent to Gaol, to my great Trouble and Charge". And when I might not ufe it (faid One in Vowcx T^bougb yon rvoulduje the Common Fr.iyer ^kr^jlgavcupto thcufcof the Parilh, and lake it thankfully of t>x, Loyd that he will there teach his People.

4. I have many and many a time in the Pulpit openly Preacht a-gainlt Scperation, even what he now deflreth.

5. Not part a Fortnight before his Sermon, I Preacht near him (at tht Verge of his Parifh in my Ledlurej two whoteSermons of it, en Luk^ 15. theCafc of the two Sons i (hewing that there are three notable forts of Separation, i. The Perfemtors that forcibly featter 'the Flock,as the Papifts by dividing, flnful in)pofitions. 2. The Pro-phavc Separatifi like the Prodigal, who had rather be at the Tavern, the Play-houle, the Whore-houfe, &c. than at Church. 5. The faffionate p£n'ifh houe(i Chr/jlian, as in the Text, \_Hewas hutidry and would tiot come in.'] Here I fhcwcd by many rcafbns, how faulty and liurtful this miftiking pailic>nate Separation is : And I took that occn-iion to give them many Heafons rrhy I commitriicjte n-ith the Parifh Church my fclf^ and Sep irate not from them \ and I told them my judg* mt^nt, that they that fuffcr meerly for not-heari/}<r^ or not'communicu-ing tl.rii:eayear as tiie Law requireth, cannot juftirie their Caufe without fom.cextroardinarynafon, if th. y live in a Parifli that hath a Mi-f)ifier capable of that Office. But idid not malignantly equal the Son that had long fen-ed bis Father^ and net irjnfgreffed bis CommandnicnP^ with his Brother in his Prodigal defcrtion of his Father; Eui on the 'Vitxt words [_His Father rvcnt out to him and intrcatedhim to come in i~l I fhewcd that Gods f ondefccntion,and Method in fatisfyingh.s mi^ ftaiicn paffionatc Children,fhould dired Minifleisand others how tli.y alfo Ihould deal-with fuch. And that violepce initcad of loving Conr

defcen lofi

88 Richard BaxterV A^^fwer to Dr. Stiirmgficct

dcfccnfion^reafoningand necalliry forbearance of (uch inhrmities^ ihcweth, 1. That luch confidcr not the coiruption of Humane Nature, and how bad all men arc. 2. Tlicy know not what need of Forbearance they have thenifclves', nor how liable they are :o Error and to Sin. 3. They imitate not God our Father and Saviour, and know not what manner of Spirit they are of. 4. They have not due acquaintance with the prccioufnefs of Gods Grace and linage, that cannot perceive it, if there be but fuch an Error or Pailiun to ob-fcureit. 5. They conlidcr not that they alio may beTen.ptcd, and what Temptation may do even with upright Souls. 6, They are Grangers to the Pafleral office *, They ftiould excel in Love and Ten-dernefs as much as in Knowledge, and as mothers quiet crj ii'g Children, and not therefore ca(i them out of doors. 7. They Crofs the ends of the Miniilry, if they take the Converting of Sou's to be any of its end: For as Generation fo Regeneration mzk^ih Infants and Children lefore they are grown Men ■■> and Children will be weak and troublefome: And he that would have no fuch Children, muft not endeavour mensConverfion. 8. Yea, they greatly increafe thcDif-cafe which they would cure : Men will not luve thofe that hurt them fo eafily as others: And when they are difplialed with you, they are thehardlierpleafcd with your Dodrine. 5. Driving men into the Church, maketh it likea Prifon and corrupteth it asc^mpofcdof involuntary Members. 10. Y ea^ they m.uftdcf troy the Church, if they will fuffer none in it that have as great weakncffes as thefc. Thus I declared both the evil of palFionate Seperation, and of miftakingthe way of Cure. I would repeat the Sermons, were it not for tear of

being tedious.

6. I have Printed in my kcond Flea for Peace, what our Non-conformity is not J containing as much in this point as he can reafonably

defire,asit was approved by many others, (named in our Judgment about the Intereit of Reafon in Religion) fo that he cannot fay that I fpeak but of my felf.

7. I fuppofe he bclieveth that I am acquainted with m.ore Non-conformable Minifters than he is for clfe he will not think that 1 am any fuch^/;^e%w««xasBi{hopM(/r/pycallethmeO And 1 meet with^tew ornone thatcontradidt what in this cafeof Separation! have Publifti-ed i They are commonly tor Reformed Parilh Churches (rot takmg all in the PariOi for the Church, but bounding Churches inParilhes for Order,) and Preach cUewhere but on neceifity and as Afliltants and not as Adverfaries. , v n.

8. Doth not our Pradlice f who go to theParifh Churches) Ihew our Tudaments to the People if we laid nothing ?

9. I could not have drawn the People fo much from too great di" ftance if I had not preached to them. At Aclm I condantly heard Dr. Eieves-i and his Curate, and I preached only in my houfc betu'een his Sermons^and then led the People to the Church,which Judge H.dcs m V neighbour thought was good fervicc to the Church. And the very Sermon that/v^as fcnt to the Common Gaol for, wason/I/^-rf/;. 5. BUjfedarethc meekj, perfwading to fubmiffive peace and patience.

10. When Bilhop Morley forbad me to preach in his Dioccfs, and I could not get leave at my departure to Preach to my hearers one farewcl Sermon in publick •, 1 Prcachtin a private Houfe to them on Z>^Z'/Ws words {_Brt}ig backjhe j4rkj)fGodi}:tothe City-^if I have found favour^ &C.3 purpoft'ly to pcrfwade them as my laft advice, not to depait from the publick Parifh Afrembly,thoiigh the Liturgy be there the publick worliiip. Butifthe Minifterthat is there fhoufd be intolerable. I. As utterly unable. 2. OraHeretick. 3. Or fo malig-nantanEnemy ofGodlincfsas to do more hurt than good •, I advifed them not to own any fuch Minifter, nor eno^urage him in his Ufurpa-tion. And it was on that account that they long forbore, till the Fi-f^rwas dead and a better fucceeded him.

11. Since then I have written to my old Flock, to perfwade them to joyn in the ParilTi Aflembly ,and I hear not of three that do refufe it And all this I have faid as to that matter of faft, to (hew you how. farr to believe this Reverend Doftor's intimated ironical accufation.

If he fay, t\\dit Other Preachers do mt fo.

I Anfwer Firft, How knowcth he the Negative that never heareth them, but like a feparatift avoideth it as unlaw^ful ?

2. Is it not likely that in feafon they preach their judgmem ?

3. But Iconfefs they may find more profitable work than to preach over all the fufpected pafiages in the Liturgy^ and other parts of Conformity, and anfwer all the Peoples objections- againftthem. The Builders and Owners ofthehoufes arc the fitteft to do fnch oflBces to maintain it.

§. 65. Is it that they fear the Reproaches of the People ; which feme fevp of the mofl eminent Perfons among them-, have found they muf undergo if they touch upon this fnhjc^ ?

j4nf. 1. So farr as your accufation is untrue as to the fasSt,, it's but a further ill intimation to ask, why they do ?iot that which they do ?

2. If they that fhould better know what their auditors moft need, muft preach what you appoint that know themlcfs, you may make their Sermons for them as well as their prayers.

3. ThofQ few Perfons it feems at leaft toucht on what you fay they prcacht not.-And for my part,whom I know you mean for one, 1 never

AI • felt

felt my felfmuch tempted to grudge at the DifTcnters that therefore will not hear me: If they hear others more fuitable to them by whom they can more profit,as more efteeming them,what hurt is that to me.? Would J have none taught the knowledg of Chrifl:, but by my fcif ? While we have all one Faith, it's fome convenience for men to affcm-ble and hear, where they do it with unprejudiced, undifturbed minds.

4. /f thofc pcrfons you mention have before and fince fuch ccn-fures as you intimate, done what you would pcrfwade men that they do not, your felf-contradi£tion is mod palpable.

§. 66. Serm. [J-'or I know mt how it lomcth to pafs that the mofi Godly people among them) can leafl endure to be told of their faults.']

Arif I. Did you not intend \jhe /Jofi Godly] for a fcorn, you would confefs it falfe.

2 It you mean thofe that we efleem mofi Godly^ it is not true neither.

3. /f you mean thofe that think themfelves fo, it's no wonder if they miftake ; if not, it's not true.

2. / pray you take warning by them, or by your own reproof, and do not now fliew that you are one of the moji Godly by lefs endu-rir.g to be told of your faults, li other wife, you have fore-condemned your own impatience.

3. Verily they have dealt much more patiently with me than the Bifhops and Canoneers have done : Though fome have fpoken their diflike of me, none of them (even when they were in power) did ever filence or imprifon me, nor ever forbid me to Preach (fave once at an Aflizes. J How can you think that we can feel their cenfures, when we have fo much worfe to feel from the Canoneers ? And when you ask, \Js it for fear theyjhould have none left to preach to ?~\ /f you fepa-rated not from us, you would fee that fuch have fome left ftill.

§. 67. Serm. p. 42. [VVhence we fee the Church o/Englands endea^ voHr after Vniformity.^ is acquitted from Tyranny over the Confciences of men^ by the Judgment of the mo(l Learned of the y^Jfembly, &C.3

Anf. I. Of the AfTembly / have faid enough. .

2. /f you think the Aflembles Vniformity, or their endeavours for it, were the fame with the Church of Englands^ none that know the cafe will be of your mind. y

3. /f you are intelligible we muft fuppofe that you cite theni t6 defend this as the conclufion which you own. The word [Tyranny] is too harfhto be ufed without need : But / fuppofe you include that the faid Endeavours for Vniformity have no culpable feverity in them.

That is, that the Afts for Vniformity^ the Canons, the executing

of

of them in Declarations, Subfcriptions, Oaths, Praftices, Punifhmcnts Corporal and Spiritual; are no Sin, but Lawful. In your Epiftlc you fay They are ill men that fay This isflirring up to perfecution : All that / will fay is, that if you own thefe Endeavours for Z^niform-ty, /donot: and the judge is at the door.

§. 68. Serm. p.44. {_If they fonn their judgments rather h'^ prcjn dice andpajfion^ndinterejff than from the Laws of Oodj or jitfi Rules cfCbnfciencCy &c.

u4nf. I. This is true and good ; /f we make not Gods Laws the Rule of Confcicncc, no wonder if we err: God prefervc us from ail corrupting prejudice , palTion, intereft and Canons.

2. But when you compare our tcjnptation from intereft with yours, /hope you will not fay as Dr. Ajljcton-^ that as going to the Bar of God he undertakes to mal^good-, that it^s through Pride and Covetoufncfs that we conform not ; that is, that we choofe the contempt of high and low, and to live on Alms, and multitudes in pinching poverty.

§.69. Serm. p. 46. {We fnd Vniformity and Order condemned at Tyrannical^ till men come into power themfelvcs ; and then the very fame-things and arguments are ufcd and thought very good andfuhflantialt which before were weakjind fophijlical. ]

j4nf. A true and fad confelTion-, when /read your /rcnlcon and this Sermon, I the more believe you .• Therefore it hath been my happinefs that I was never in Power, no nor ever on the uppermoft fide unlefs as I am for the King. I remember Dr. Rieves told us in the Pulpit that the reafon why we were againft Diocefan Bifhops, was becaufe we could not be Bifhops our felves : And many others have faid the like.

§. 70. Serm. [Thofe that now plead for Toleration-, did once thinhjt the Mother of Confufon-i the nurfe of j4theifm.^ &c.]

j^nf. I. Sure though you often cite Dr. Owen-, you mean not the Independents.

2. /f they fpake cither for or againft Toleration as you do without diftinftion, zndi-wcic for all ox againfl all-^ 2iX\A diftinguifhcd not the tolerable from the intolerable, it's no great heed to be taken what they fay. /f there were but one falfe word impofcd on you, which you could not afTent to, and on 2000 fuch as you, fhould)'o« be no more tolerated than a Mahojmtan ?

§.71. As to your advice to us p. 47.48. i. Did you think that becaufe we muft bear with much that is <«w;/jr in the Church, that therefore wc muft either confent to it, or pradife it, and Covenant againft all endeavours of amending it, or prefer it before bette r.

M 2 The

The man you talk of out of Mr. Ball^ was near Bremicham-, and was Melancholy to a kind of madnefs.

To your fecond I anfwcr, It followeth not, that bccaufe we muft not judge too hardly of Impofitions, therefore we \rm:\ fuy^ fwearand do all that is now.impofed on us Or that he that dares not do it, is un-peaccable./ would we knew in what cafes only you would deny Obedience and Conformity your fclf. Doubtful paflages and undoubted evils fomcwhat differ, k faHlt-ffuiing difpofuion-t and the Rom.tn 2iit that Boccalinc mentions, to fwallow a Pumpion, have a mean between them. Pafifis^ Sovi?iians or any that are uppermoft, may call for Conforuiitv under the names of Unity and Peace.

To the Third, feparaticn was not the fame thing in the mouth of the old Non-conformifts as in your : They took it firft for unchurching the Parifli Churches. 2. Or holding it a fin to communicate with them, if they might be excufed as to Kneeling, Crofling, c^c. You take it for \jpreaLhing when forbidden.~] 1 hiive named to you the old Non-Con for mifls that preached when they could. And half of them / think got into fmall priviledged places, exempt from the Bifhops power, and there preached molt of them without the Liturgy, and all without the Ceremonies : And was not this againft Law ? SureBifhop Bancroft that defcribeth their attempts to fet up new Churches and ^i-fcipline was not of your mind concerning l\^Q. Non-Confurmifls]i\digmQnU We had but two in all ShropJl}yre, and Dr. Alleflree when a boy, was the Catechiz'd Auditor of one of them, being his next Neighbour('in a peculiar Chapel, without the Liturgy, &c.) And yet / think not that his Father and all that AfTembly were feparatifts for hearing him^ B-addiawtho'^^t we fhould fubmit to a filencing Law, where our Miniftry was unnecefTary, and fo do L Dr. Gonge was a Conformifi when he wrote the Book which you cite.

To your Fourth •, Wo to them that believe our divifions indanger the Land and let in Popery, and yet will caufe them, and no intreaty can procure them to forbear dividing us, when they may ; and then revile them that have noway to remedy it,unlefs wiliul heinous finning be the way

§. 72 That it is difeafes f that love not their own names^ in mens hearts, that make the trouble more than our different judgments and AfTemblings, experience telleth us : / was never a fettled Teacher, but in two places ffaving a Lefture at Coventry in the War,) viz.. An Afliftant at Budgnorth-, and a Paftor at Kidderminfler : And in both places there is an honefl Conformable and a Non-Conformable Mini-ftcr : And the People go to the publick Afitmbly, and many hear the Non-conformift privately between the publick Meetings : And both

parties.

parties (as / hear) live in very much love and peace, and why might it not be fo in other places, if there were the like Minifters and People, without all this envious clamour and bugbear words of (Ami-chrijlian) on one fide, or (Sc^aratijis and ScifmMicks on the o-ther.

§ 73. As to your next advices p 55, ^4. Firft Qui ?wnct nt faci-as^ O'c. We fpcak fo much againft ra!h ignorant Zeal, that you commend us again il your purpofe.

2. We thank you for the admonition {_not to be always complaining of haydfl:ips andperfecHtions.^ Doubtlefs our mercies arc fo great as forbid us to be over querulous*, my leave us uriexcufable, if we are not very thankful. For my own part my fufFerings have been very fmall from man, incomparifon of what /endure in Soul and Body from my fclf. They are few days in which /am not a heavier burden to my fclf, than all my Enemies are. But Firft, / may not be f-ncelefs of the cafe of many better men, who have great families and no bread but what they have by Alms in poor Countreys where the people are fitter to receive than to give. And if they remove to bigger Towns the Clergy tell them it is for gain, and they that have one, two, three or more preferiiients, reproach them as covetous that will rather beg than fin or famifTi, yet your Mr Hicheringil on the contrary pra-claiiTK^th how little they get : Were it my cafe as it is very many Non-Conformifls^ to be in Other mens debts, and have nothing to pay houfe rent, for cloaths, for bread, &c. and to have a Wife and many Children to pacific, and to live on bread and water, or little more, and be offered plenty if/ would but do that which / take to be the hazard of my Soul, /fhould befenfible of the Temptatioa

2. And alas all this is nothing to the fufferingof thoufands of Souls to perifh for lack of knowledge, whofe cafe it is lawful to compaflioiiate and lament.

3. And nature maketh it lawful to feel when one is hurt, and to con-fefsthat feeling.

4. And methinks if Julian that abufeth the Chridians fhould fay.> your A^y?o- bidyou turn the other Cheeky-, his fcotn would bat aggravate his Sin •• Patience is our duty •, But if they call us to it who Preach and Print, and call out for the Execution of the Laws againft us. fas many of the mofl eminent of the Clergy have long done) as you. laid in another cafe, It willlook^biuvdly : To preach to the Parliament^ to put Fire to the Faggot, to accufe the Kiiig for his Licences and Clemency, to tell the Magiflratcs and the World, that our SchiUns are.-becaufc they execute not the Laws, even the Laws that fine us. forty pound a Sermon, and lay us in the Common. Gaol with Maiefa£tors>

M 3 and

and banifh us fiom Cities and Corporations, / fay for thefe men to fay \j:ofnd.m2 ;;<??,]] is a fmart accufation of thcmfelves. For from good men good is to be expedVcd^ but if/ meet with Gentlemen on the Road thit take away my ]Mony,clothes and horfc, and wound me, and tjll me how much 1 am beholden to them, bccaufe they did not cut my throat, it's lawful to know what they are, though / muft be patient. And/told you before, when you talk of beiti^ fjsadeaSa-crjficc-y if a few dcfpifed men ccnfurc you, while you have all your ilcnour. Reputation, Riches and many preferments to arm you a-gainft their thoughts and breath, methinks fhewcth that this Coun fd is as fcafonable to your felf as to the fufFering Nonconformifis.

§. 74. Serm. 54. {\Vhere are the Trifcillians that have been put ta death by their injligatio'a} WhatdofmhinfinHationsmean-i but that our Bt^wps are the followers o/Ithacius and Idacius in their cruelty ; and they of the good andmeek^ BijJjqp St. Martin, who refufed communion with them on that account ? Jf men entertain fuch i^nd thoughts of rhemfehes-i and fuch hard thoughts of their Superiours, whatever they plead for-i they have no i-nclination toVeace.~\

Jirf^er 1. That is, to your Terms of Peace, and you being Judge. 2. Knowledg is oft conftrained : It is no fin to know Hiftory, much lefs Fublick matter of prcfent fadt, and leaft of all, that which we fee and feel, /s it a fin to know when a man is in prifon, or when his goods or books are diftrained, &c ? / the rather fpeak to this, becaufe a Reverend Bifhop tells me alfo of this wrong, as if thofe Bifhops cafe were unlike to his ; and citeth the words of the Hiftorian that mcntioneth the fuffcring of the Churches in Spain on that account, as if Maximm had but taken advantage of the Bifhops fpleen to Tyrannize, and prey upon the Churches. / defire not to make any men fcem worfe then they are, nor caufelefly to open the faults of any. I profefs to the world that it is not in an impatient aggravating of any fufFeringsof my own f which are fmall,) that / write this, but as the true dating of the cafe between us. /f the matter of faft be not truly ftated, the matter of right cannot be well determined, /hate falfe Hiftory.

I. yt is agreed on by many of the beft Hiftorians of that Age, be-fide Beda-i that Maximm wanted nothing but a good Title to make him one of the beft of Emperours : That he was faid to be made Em-perour by the Briti^ Souldiers, againft his will, and being once in, could not go back. His ufurpation was wicked, bat a way too common in the Empire. He was of a pious life, and great zeal for the Bifhops and the Orthodox Religion ; what he did was to pleafe the Bifhops and to fupprefs Hercfic and Schifme •• And it's hke enough he thought by their friendfhip to ftrengthen himfelf. He refcued yim-

brofc

hrofe s.i Milan (^om t\\z Arrians^ and by his threats deterred r^len-timan (provoked by his Wife) from pcrfecuting him, and fo prefciv-ed the Church of A<filan and many others.

2. I read not of any of the Bifhops in all his Countrcys that com-plyed not with this Ufurpcr, favc Alanine Theognc^fli^y and Ambrofe^ (that was prcferved by him.)

3. It was not JthaicM and IdaciusoviUy but all the Synod of the Bifhops, that were guilty, and that Martin fcparated from.

4. 1 he Prifcillians were down-right Cmflicks^ and fo arc not the Nonconformifts, who you fay agree with you in Dofirine, &c.

5. it is but the death of Prifcillian and a very few more that the BilTiops were faid to have procured ^ and they were afhamed of it when they had done, and denyed that it was their doing. You force me for Hiftorical Verity to tell you, that they did not filence about 2000 Miniftcrs, which is worfe than many bodily affliftions •, nor did they defire Maximiis to make a Law that all that did not fuch things <w ours,Oiould be ruined by Fines, Imprif(?ned,G^c-.Make them not worfe than they were. Our Qiiakcrs are much like the PrifciUia-r.ifis. Had it been but twice as jjiany of them that had dyed in prifon, as were put to death of the Pnfcillianijh-, the cafes had not been much unlike. But Mr. Tffofnfon that dyed in Prifon at Briftol^ Mr. Field that dyed in Prifon here:, Mr. Hughes that in Prifon catcht his mortal ficknefs ; Mr.. Jofe^h Allen that had the fame Lot, and many more fuch, were none of them like the PrtfctlUamfis ; but men of whom /and fuch as / come far fhort.

6. The great mifchiefthat thofe Bifhops did was by fufpeOing men that Faffed and Prayed much,to be Prifcilliafis •, they brought reproach by unjuft fufpicions in all Countrys on the moft (IriO; Religious men-,and Martin wzs called by them a Prifctllianij} for being againft the Bifhops Perfccution of them.Let not me, but publick knowledge here make the comparifon : Howfmall was this reproach-,for extent and continuance, in comparifon of that which by occafion of Non-conformity hath been cafl on men in FfigUnd ? My memory ferveth me from 1623 or 24 •, Commonly in the Countreys, if a man did but pray in his family, arid fpend the Lords day in Religious Excrcifes, Ircading the Scripture, or repeating a Sermon, or reading a good book, or Tinging a Pfalm, and was again'^fwearing and drnnkcnnef's, he was made the comimon fcorn, as a puntane ; and the Bifhops Articles, and their reproach of Non-conformifts, occafioncd all this in the Rabble againft thofe that were no Non-conformifts./f you believe not me, believe aConformift Robert Bolton-f that faith more of the horrid abufe of Piety by the: name of PnritancAnd fincethcn the fume fpirit hath ufed the. Name of Pre/-

hyteriarff

-byreriun^ Schifwatich^ Scparatijl-, F<«;7.tnci!v, to the like reproach of Te-tioufnefs and diligence in Religion, though not fo univerfally as the narae Puritan was:, Yea if a man had but been for Lediircs, and fiich like helps as Arch-BilliopG'r/W^//wasf-n- ('to hiscoftj or foraf-tei noon Sermons, or would not read the book for Sunday dancing, &c. he was woifc than fufpccted and reproached. My neighbours that / once was a Teacher to, did never prefume to preach nor invade the minifterial Office,nor do any thing but the work of private Chriftians, that is to pray, and to repeat the Sermon, and fing a Pfalm, but becaufe many ignorant Families that could not read, could not do any of this in their houfes, they joyned with the Neighbours that performed it, and this not at time of Publick worfhip; yet becaufe that more than fo.ir fuch met, they weredeftrained on and laid in Gaols. Compare all this ('and the removal of many hundred families out of the Land heretofore) with the confequents of the Bifhopszeal againfl: the Frif-cillians.

But remember that it is not in my thoughts to lay any of this upon the Bifhops that came in fince the Impofitions and actions aforefaid^ and had no hand in them, and cry not to Magiftrates to execute the Laws, much lefson men of fuch known moderation as divers of them are, nor on the Peaceable Conformifts that own none of this.

7. And it mud be remembred that Martin was but an odd m3n,and feemed lingular againfl: the Synods of all the Bifhops, and a man of little Learning, like one of our Trades-men that is Religious. And therefore I have wondred that Baronim and Binnim^ and our Rich. Hooker^ did fo openly decry the faults of the Bifhops here, and take part with Martin-^ and not rather turn the reproach on him, as an unlearned Separatift, and Fanatick : But his Miracles filenced all reproaches-, with the rooted efteem which ferious Chriflians will ftill have for ferious Piety,when the Reproachers have faid and done their worfl::, Elfe one unlearned Man that went in fordid attire, and lived in a fmallthatchtCGttage,and lay on the Ground,and eat worfe than our beggars do, and pleaded for the Gnojficks pcrfons, was liker to have been born down as a mad Fanatick, than fuch men as Dr. Tveife^ Tho-mM Gataker-) Richard Vines-, Anthony Burgcs-^ Mr. Hughes-^ Jofeph Allen-^ and about 2000 more.

8. Laftly, Let it be noted that the Caufc of St. A^rtlnwdS his judgement that Herefe and Schif/n^tv en as bad as the Gnojiicks was not to be

■ fiiniP:ed by the/mrd^but only by Church cenfures;,and therefore that the Bifhops did wickedly,in calling for the Magiftrates fword againftthem for t'-.ea if the Herctick can get the Magiftrate to be forhim,the fame fword may be drawnagainft the Orthodox-: And fo the PrifcHUaniftj

once

onCG got a great Courtier to be for them.and a u-hif^h„. j.i. r , againft theiradverraries,wh,ch oceaStfFerTno In^ •'* '^'1^1'^ parts AndIwonderho.ir..„«.jtt*?/;ffH-rp';4f,;:

the fiknang and o_heraffl,aing of Non-conformftZ under fcl^ ol CNo„.toUrMim2 and the Owche! tndenom for TJ-.-f

poffibIykeepoutthel,ghtwh,chwouldteli;;;;rwc^^^^^^

twenty to one in w--,ghmg your cafe and ours with Ith.amlniAfT

t>m, .fany .mpartui hand do hold the ballancc. Is no your who'll

caufi, who cry out for the execution of the Laws, and a"" nft ol-

flir,.:^^!^'' ■• P'-o^^th^lof any of my Acquaintance ever pra-aifcd Ejefting, Silencing, Ruining mctf for things unnece(rar/ I?.

or forgijater things. Whomdid weeverforbidfrpTeach^^^^^^^^^ Whom^did we caftoutof all Church maintenance ? Whom d!d we

2. If any in Ntw-E„gU„i had done it, is that our doine' Thev that are againft Chrifts Righteoufnefs imputed, I hope 3 nor i^^

with you in imputing to us the fins of thofe that were no Kin to us'^L" we never faw. •■ » gi c no rvin to us, and

3. WhatapitifulCafeisMankindin, iffuch anHaranaue ofmn

foundmg words can make them believe, that TolerSr not To" leratmg ,n caufes vaftly different, are the fame? s fanonet;de' ny men Liberty to feduce men from the Eflentials of theFa th and m forbid many hundreds to preach Chnte Gofpel, unlef thev wi' onnn (y profefs that they AlTentand Confentto three Bookf/Jir ^ never to endeavour'the Reforming of?hrGovernn°nt„frh rh^T

^c? Might not thePapifehaveLtousjE;;;"dor-^^^^^^^ thing for us to burn Proteftants as Hererirks- ,c i, ao L'f« the jam

Subverters of the Faith.] fiStvou that are f^/f I • ^'°"'" if?'' *= confenting to, r» t?J2" C 1 ft excufe tr"c^l"%''' ^^'r

^Powc'r" ^I'/rr '^ t-bi:4'affi>:,t^„^f;

Sa^^them arttToTSw^rr".^'^^^^^^^

your power-, would Sileuce-, Impriforif and Fuine themy that differ from you in Ceremony,Form,or Subfcription like ours ?3 O how incredible are the words ot fomc applauded men!

I remember that at the Savoy when it was faid how fome had ufed the Epifcopal, Billiop Ir^/f<?« excufed and reproved me, and faid, that \jndccdJh,idthcn written againfl Ejefling or Troubling any honefi worthy ?nan for being Epifcopalor againfl the Parliament.^ bnt that the incompetent and vicious of all forts equally ^muld be Ejefled Bm (faith he) did not you write that if the Sword interpofed not^ but meer liberty to fo-litnteers wc-re granted to all parties-,the Prelatical LitHrgick^Church would be lih a Tavern or Inne where manyfober Perfons come-^but fo 7nany others alfot as would make it a place of no very great inviting Fame /J I con-ftlTcd the truth, and ftill confefs it.

§. 76. To your 4th. Advice, {_not to make our differences feem greater than they are.~]

^ I do confent. But i. Did our 18 or 19 years Silencing them,do that ?: 2. Do not you do it, that make men believe that we are Intolerable and to be Silenced, and that Separate from our Congregations as if it were a fin to join with us ? 3. We defire only a true ftating of the Cafe.

The honefi dealing which you demand, I and many others conftantly perform; and it's ill to intimate that we do not. But you add,

§• 77- C Jt'^shard to underfland if occafional Communion be lawful-^ that ccnfiant Communion (Iwuld not be a Duty.~\

Anf Some Truths are hard to men of great Wit. It's lawful to have communion in our Aflemblies (as I am ready to prove) and yet you think not any-, much lefs co'nfia7ny Communion to be a Diity. It's lawful to have Communion with the French-^Dutch^ or GreekS^\\mc\\ \ muft conftant Communion be therefore a Duty ? It's lawful to have Communion with an ignorant Reader, or a drunken Prieft (at leaft-in your Judgment 0 Is it therefore a duty to feek no better ?

§. 78. Serm. {_All underftanding men will conclude that they prefer fome little interefis of their own, before the Honour of Chrift and the Teaceof the Church f] , '

Anf I. The word \_Little'] came well in as to your fenfe : Truly Poverty and Buin are little interefts : I cannot imagine what you mean, unlefs it be Reputation. But is not your Reputation with the Highefl Perfons, and the multitude, a more tempting Intereft than our Reputation with fuch as you much Contemn. 2. But do you underftand-ing men know our hearts better than we ? And are you fare that none are wnderfianding that be not as partially Cenforious as you? If we prefer our Little intereft, why do we not Conform ? If you take ur sm for Ma^ men, difputc not with us: if not, can we be ignorant that

Carnal

Carnal Intercfl is on your fide, and are none of us Capable of it /• 3. I

Tfhould have taken it as too fharp an intimation to fay that Tour Greater ^ Interefl fxvayeth you : No man that is a Chri'^ian takcth thcfe vain vcx-^1 atious World for his great Intereft And to make the Little Imerefi ^T ''afProfccuted,* Beggared, Ruined N'on-conformifts to be that which beareth down> both all the Intereft of Wealth, Eafc and Worldly iionoars and the int;.'re(l: of the Churches Peace and the inter^fi of their own Salvation, and all this by no other proof than a Suppofition thaPyour fagacity knovveth their hearts, and thcit>all und^rdandjing men are of your mind]] the naughtin-.fs of this is fo -great that tt will not fuffer you to fee it. Sir, as wife as you are, 1 kn -jw my o .vn heart better than you do (and (o do my Brethren know theirs J If you would fwear the contrary, I will not believe you. And I tell you,it is no Little hnereft that movcth me ', it is greaterflfan a Deanery or a Bifhoprick. I were worfc than mad, if vt\ confumed my fmall eftate. 2. And my Health. 3. And denied my Eafe. 4, And all wordly Wealth and PIcafure. -^5.'And expofcd my felf to be called a Schifma-tick and a Rogue, by the Conformifts. 6. And lay my Iclf under the ruining dangers of the Law. And 7. to be written againft as doing all this by fin. 8. And all this under the languifilings and pains of fick-ncfs, expefting when I am called to my account ; I fay I were worfe than jjjfld, if! cbofe all this for that which you call QL^f/f//;/T?-f^/?.] 9. hm\^ Reputation vj\l\\m^ poor defpifed party be that Little inte-refly you confute your felf before, where you fay how much I have undergone of their impatient Cenfures. Have 1 flattered'them .'* Have I not faid more againft their faults than you have done, though not as gainft their Duty ? 10. Sohie of my heart-judges liiy, it is a femel dixijfc, to avoid the imputation of mutability. But their Conipani-ons confute them who charge me with my refractions \ who fee by my writings that I left room for fecond thoughts, and have not fi-lenced them to efcape the Ccnfure of any whomfocver. Ihave left my Reputation to God, and never was fo thin SkinM as to be. unable to bear a Cholerick breath: I live not upon Air, or ;he thoughJt^ of men, who will fhortly with me be filent in the duft. They that know how many Books, perhaps fcores, have been written againft me, by Sedlaries of many forts, and fome by good and fober men, Presbyterians, IndepcndantsandPrelatical, and how little they have broke my peace, will not think ^/)/»/<««/^ is my Little Inter efl Had / been as you, / would have left out thi^s Cl^arge oiLittle Iraercfli left it fhould tempt men to compare your Oafc 4ind ours.

§T"79. Your 5th. Advice is juft .• I hate Charging you or any with tinjuft fjrpici:)us of inclinations to Popery, /know fome few men

\vhain

loo Richard Baxter*J-^Tb^o* ^t? Dr. Stillingflcct.

"vvhom 1 have rcafon to fay, Defend GrctiM as one of their Religion \ '"' who thought that the Protcftants can never unite among themfclves tili" i^^ they unite with Rome as the ATiflrcfs Church ; and that the Councils ^ even that of TrW arc found in lie Faith, and that fecuringthe rightsi^ •of Kings and Bifhops, and diiowningthc Schodhn^n^bScs and thft^Sj^ Clergies evil lives, ad reducing the Pope to rule us,- ndt-Arfjitrarily^^jfc but by the Canons, are enough to fatisfie and reconcile us. But t<» .-charge this on all, or moft, is unjuft: We know what Bifhop Bar-love-, Bifhop Crofts and divers others have done to fignifie their f aith-fulnefs to the Protcftant Caufe. And if Contz.erPs way prevail not, to drill men they know not whither by degrees, I hope of the 9000 or loooo-Cleiigie mcnin England-, one thoufandwill not turn to Popery. But I muft iayV>^^ 4jyhe n fome Prelates made it their great bufincfs to Silence, Shame ar&'fi|j^s, and drive us far enough froui Per-fons of Power, undertafflipfo prcfervethe Proteftont Religion better without us than with us, and after all, cry outthemfelves that we arc in danger of Popery by their own Pupils and Difciples, whofeinftru-^ion they undertook ^ men'will have leave to think of this awake, and to judge of Caufes by EfFefts.

§. 00. Your Counfel is good, {_Not to rnn the hazjtrd of all for a plow of greater Liberty to our felves.'] Should / tell you three ftories of our hazarding our own Liberties becaufe we would not do w||^ you difTwade us from, one in 1660, and another 1662, and another about J667, itwould beapairof Speftaclcstofome. 2. But will not all » that have eyes fee, who doth more for Toleration of Pcp^yy, they that fay l^Popery and yon Jhall ftand and fall tog ether-, except you will - 4 fayy fuhfcribe and do all that is frefcrihedyen ; 3 or they that fay [_We iaimot do that which we take to be hainotts fin? "2 Do you think the Pa-piftshadnot rather f with you) that you were filenced, than that wc Preach, who have been their greateft Adverfaries? If you will rather kt in Toleration of Popery, than you will Tolerate Proteftants that fearthcgailt of Lying, Per)ury, and many other Evils, fhouldthey-^ that which you CSnfefs indtferentt let God be judge between you 4md us.

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