"To his (jirace the Vu^eofl^^ derdail Hti Mijefttes Commip jioner > and ^Principal Secreta* ry for the Kingdom of Scotland, &c*

May it pleafe Your Grace,

HOnour and Gratitude are aflfe-&ioiis much inclined to fpeak out, and to publifh theriifelves in the predication of their objects: And feeing the Literate Tribe have long ufed fo much boldnefs with Great Names, as to prefix them by Dedications to their Writings, I take that advantage to tell the world how grcatly Your favour hath long firice obliged me,

Ai aixd

and (till continueth fo to do. And while I can fay } that I know of no Nobleman living who hath read more of my Writings than Yoo have done , all that know the End of Writing, will confent, that there is no Noble Name which! fliould prefer. And as I long ago read in the Learned Spanhemius's Dedication of his VubiaEvangelica p. 3. to You (well ■ joyned with the famous Ufrer ) the predication of Your Judicium Jupra <zta-tern maturum y rerum omnium cognitione fab* attum peElus , and that as attefted by the llluflrious Duke of %oham , the Mofi Sagacious ^Arbiter of ingenies . And years and experience have been long adding to Your knowledge : Beingnotaftran-ger to the Truth of this my felf, I have great rcafon to be Ambitious to Jland right in Your ejieem: (For who reverenceth the Judgement of ignorant Readers? Or doth not reverence the Judgement of the Wife ?) And therefore to give You an account of mj felf and of this writing > Since

Since I overgrew that Religion whicl is taken up moft on humane trujl^ by increasing knowledge I increafed mens difpleaiure ; and my judgement not falling juft into the mold of any Se£l among Church*diViders y there is fcarce any Seci which doth not, according to their various interejls , fignifie their difplea-fure. Some only by Magijlerial Qenjures^ more credibly acquainting the world, what they are tbemfebes , than what 1 am r or what is my judgement. But from others I take a meer (lander for Qemency , and as Philojlratus faith , de Ditto (phaVormi ) Bt dum Socratts cicutam non bibam , Area priyari Jlatua non Udit. Simple Chrijl'uiriu ty is my %eligton : I determine to know nothing but (Jhrifl Crucified (and Glori* fied. ) And I am paft all doubt, that till jimple Chrijliamty become the terms of Church Ainity and Qoncord i the Church will ntV:r fee Unity or Qoncord \ which ftiall prove univerfal or durable. So certain am 1", that the Wits of the Learned, much lefs

iof the (jmmunity of ^vulgar Chriftians, will never arrive at the ftaturejof^ttco^, in numerous and difficult joints : Nor the marvellous diverfity 6f Educations, occafions, temperatures and capacities , be ever united in any thing but what is plain and Jim* p!e. And as Certain am I , that the llniyerfal (jonjcimce of trite believers will never unite, in any thing which is not evidently divine. And yet as certain am !, that the forfaking of the determination of the Holy Ghoft and the Apoftles, A&s 15.28. and of r Pauls Veafion, Rom. 14. & 15. hath been the Engine of Church-Vivifions and many calajnitous d'u flraElions to this day : And that that bkfjed Trince \yho muft have the honour and comfort of beginning the true heal* ing and Qonconl of the Churches, mud pare off all their fuperfluities \ and leave them at beft among their things indif* ferent, and unite them on the terms of

fimpleChriJliamty.

; And as to'fopery I have certainly

found,

found,thatthe Crofs Interefts AndTafsions of Difputers have made us (though really too diftant) to feem commonly about many Qottrin&ls more diftant than indeed we are: And that it had been better with us, if fuch men as judicious LudoV. le Blank, had had the dating of our Controversies at the firft , that differing words and methods might not | have pafled with either fide for dam* noble errors in the faith. I mean in the points of foreknowledge , predeftination , providence, predetermination^ concurfe, origi* nal Jin , free-will , univerfal Redemption y J'ufficient Grace , effectual Grace > the nature ofrattbj Jujlification, Sancitfcation , Merit ^ Good Works, Certainty of Jujlification J and of Salvation, VerJeVerance, &c. For my knowing this to be true, I am cenfured by thofe on one extream y as too favourable to the Papifts ( being indeed an Enemy to injury, calumny., uncharitable-nels or cruelty to any in the world.) But I am much more difpleafing to the A 4 Roman

tRjman patty • Bccaufe I know, that One wan is mturatly uncapable of being the Monarch of all the world : That the IQng of%sm (as the GeographiaNubienfis calls him) was never by Chrift made Kjng of Kings and Lord of Lords: That he ne* <ver wus y nor (an be a Paftor at the^i* tipodes y and over all the Earth, or as far as Vrake and Candijl? did Navigate: That it'* a lorry Argument, [ Monarchy is the bejl Government : Ergo, An unffrerjal Mo* narchy is be ft : J That the Government fetled in Nature and Scripture , is for Princes to rule Churchmen and aU y by the Sword , and the (Pajiqrs of all particular Churches , to rule their Congregations by the Churcb*I{eys,,that is, by the Word, ufing Synods for due concord and cone* fyondency : And t/;w much will do better than all the ftir that the Clergies Ambition hath made in the world.

I know that the Tope ftandeth on no better a foundation than the other four Patriarchs : And that he was but the

chief

chief Prelate or Patriarch in one Empire, as the Archbifhop of Canterbury is in tin* gland j And that the Greek Church never took his Primacy in that one Empire to be of ViYme (light : For if they had, they had never Jet up the Patriarch of Constantinople againjl him > who never claimed h'u Primacy as jure ViVmo. Iknout that the great Council of Qhalcedon decreed, Att. \6. Bin.754. [" We fol-" lowing alwayesthe definitions of the " holy Fathers and the Canon , have cc our felves alfo defined the fame cc things, concerning the Priviledges of i the lame Moft Holy Church of Con* ic jtantmople^ TSleu> %ome ; For to the Seat cC of Old %ome becaufe of the Empire of <c that City, the Fathers confequently ga<vt " the Priviledges : And the one hun-" dred and fifty Bifliops moft beloved cc of God, being moved with the fame "intention, have given equal Privi-" ledges to the Moft Holy Seat of New i %ome : Reafonably Judging that the

-City

''City adorned with the Empire and " Senate, fhall enjoy equal Friviledges l € with Old Regal <%ome. 1

1 know that their late Bifliop of Qyalcedon faith ( againfl: Biflicp ffram* hall, Surrey, pag. 69) CTb Hi itjufficetb, that theHtijhop of Rome is St. Peters Sac* cejfor • and this all Fathers tefiifie. {But whether he he fo jureDivino vel humano is no point of faith. Vid. (Bellarm. 1.2. de <Pont. in. And Holdtn Jnalyf fid. 1.1. r.p. p. \6i. Mult a funt qu<z traditione uniyerfa firmiter innttuntur ( puta S. ( Petru)n fuijfe ^omd ) qu& reVelata non junt - ideoque ab articulorum fidei Catholic* numero exclu* duntur.

I know that there never was fuch a thing as a true Univerfal Council in the world ( unlefs Chrift and his Apoftles were fuch ) ; nor ever vmft> or will, or can be.

I know that they were called Uniyer* fal but as to one Empire : and that Empe^ rours called them together P who had nothing

thing to do without that Empire . and chat (unleis accidentally any inconfidera-ble number ) no Qhurches out of the Em* pire were jummoned, or Jpit their (Bifhops thither : Which needs no other proof than the knowledge of the limits of the tf{oman Empire, and the ISlotitU Epijcopa* tuum y and the Names jubfcrihed to each Council in <Binnius and the reft.

I know that long ago their %aynerw laid ( Qrnt. Waldenf. Qatal. in Biblioth. <Pa* trumTdm. 4. f .773.) £ The Churches of the Armenians, and Ethiopians y and Indians y and the reft which the Jpoftles converted y are not under the Church of Rome. ] And that Godignus and others make no doubt but the Abafsines had the faith from the dayes of St. liatthew and the Eunuch.

1 know that Theodoret. Hftor. SanEl. <?atr. c. 1. faith., [James the fyfnop o/Ni-fibis came to the Synod of Nice • for Ni-fibis then obeyed the Roman Empire. Nothing can be mere plain.

I know that Jacob, de Vitriaco ( and others ) fay ( Hift. Orient, c. 77.) that Q the Qhurches of the Eajlerly parts of Afia alone exceeded in number the Chrijlians ei* ther of the Greek or Latin Churches ]; And that Brocbardus that lived at Jerufalem faith, that C tbofe called Schifmaticks by us are far better men than thoje of the Roman Church. ]

And to perfwade the Kings of other kingdoms y that the neceffary way of ChurchAinion , is to unite all their Sub* jetlXhurcbes under the Patriarchs of ano* ther Empire, is no wifer than to tell all the world that they muft be under the %foop of Canterbury.

1 know that it was long ere Our antu ent (Britains , and efpecially Your Scots, Would fo much as eat with the ( I{pman Clergy, ( as (Beda fheweth.)

And 1 know that their Melcb. Canus faiths ( hoc. Com. cap. 7. foL zoi.) \Jlhat el not only the Greeks, but almojt all the rejl cc of the %fro^s of the whole world , have

"fought

"fought to dejlroy the priviledges of the " Church of Rome ; And indeed they had €i on their fide both the Arms of Emperours le and the greater number of Churches: Jnd <c yet they could never prevail to abrogate ic the power of the One Tope of %ome. ] Was this Tope then ( or the %oman Church) UniverfaU Befides that, to this day } they are but about the third or fourth part of the Chriftian world.

And 1 know that General Councils are their Tjligion : and what the General ap* proved Council uLateranfublnnoc.^ hath Decreed againjl Temporal Lords and their 'Dominions , and abfolVmg of their SubjeBs from their Oaths ofFideltty: Befides what Greg. 7. hath laid in his Concil. ^pm 9 of his power to take down and fet up Emperours.

I he knowing of thefe things, maketh me taken for their enemy. And their Image of Worfjrrip in an unknown Tongue 7 with their BreadAVorflrip and multitude of ludicrous deceitful toyes, are things

which

which my foul can never be reconciled to : Much lefs to that renunciation of humanity which hereafter I de-tes5t, in the following Treatife.

And having given You this Account of my felf , I add as to this Treatije^ i. It grieved me to hear that/o many re* fufed the (parliaments 'Declaration againft Tranfuhfiantiatwn: And I delired to ftiew them what it is.

j 2. Inftead of joyning with thole who talk much of the danger of Topery in the Land ( to keep it out,) I thought it better to pubhp? the %eafons which fatis* fie me againfl it, and leave the luccels of all to God.

3. And having occafion to re-print the Firft Part or my Ksy for Qatholicks, with Corrections, inftead of the TSlame be* fore prefixed, ( of one whofe face I never law , nor ever had a word from, but ignorantly endeavoured to have provoked him to do good) I thought lour Name fitteft to be gratefully fubfti-

tuted r

tuted, who were the firjl then that checked my imprudent-temerity. J Though I was not fo vain, as to expert of late in your multitude of greater bufinefs, that You fhould read over my more tedious Writings, I defpair not but You may find leifure in perufing this , to fee that I have prefixed Your Name to nothing , but what Senfe and Q{eafon and Religion do avow. And fo Craving Your Pardon for the boldnefs and tedioufnefs of this Addrefs, I reft,

Xour Graces humble much obliged Servant,

Richard Baxter.

Toy

.

, I

1

?imiiit»tn turn

TO THE

READE R.

y | ^Htf Dialogue corned ho£ ft j/0#, yrom dtf apprebenfion of any extra*

J&^ ordinary excellency of it y as if it did much more than is already done: but as extorted by mens necefsity . i. Becaufe Jo many ignorantly turn ( Papifts of late - 2, And fome are pleajed to Say (I dare not fay, To Think ) that it is long of men in my condition . 3. And it is the Art of the ^apifis ( which our ajanity encourageth ) to feek to bring the old "Books into oblivion ( which are unanjwerabU ) • and to call ftdl for new.

The intended life of tins is y 1.T0 tell thoje that wiU dtfpute with a Tapifty on what terms and in what order to proceed ? left they be cheated into afnare.

{a) 2*To

2. To teach the Ignorant Doubters truly to underftmdy wherein the difference between us and the Vapijls doth indeed confift ; that the talk of Sectaries Calling that whuh dif-pleafeth them , Popery y nor the jcandal of our red or feeming divijions , may not de* hide them , nor Tapifts f>u%gle them by put-ting them to prove every word in our thirty nine Articles or other Writings.

3. To %efohe all that will be ^efotved, by Senfes,Reafon,Scripture, or the Judgement andTradition of the Qwrch*

Of the multitude of %eafons againjl To; pery enumerated, I have here made good but one y by a fpedal dijputation • becatifel would not make the ( Book too big. The rcjl Ifhall eajtly prove in another Volume , if greater work and fiortnefs of life do not hinder it -( rvhtch 1 fully expeH.) Jndlefl lhaVe no more opportunity to an fiver their Charges agunfl us on the other fide 7 1 have reprinted and added ( Corrected ) the frjl part of my Key for Catholicks , where it is long ago donej and never anjwered. There is extant

one Piece of theirs againfl me , unanfwered y called, Mr. Johnfon'* Rejoynder about the Vifibility of the Church : which 1 feru oufly profefs 1 have left unanfiver ed, a,s uu terly unworthy of my precious 1 imejull I have no greater matter to do, which 1 hope will never be. And he that will well Jludy his opening of the terms in the latter end, will jee to how pitiful a cafe thty are reduced, I conclude with thisjolemn Vrofefsion ■ That 1 am fa* tisfied of the truth of what 1 write, andmufi .dye ere long in the faith which I here profefs, and lay my hopes of endUfi happine/s on no other way : And that I would joyfully receive any Saving Truth, from Papifls or any other, who will bring it me, with Juch evidence as may make it indeed my own. The Lord Unite us by Truth , Love and Humility. Amen.

Septemb. i.

Richard Baxter,

I

I

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.]

Reader^

IHope the Printers Errata are not many ? and I am difcouraged from gathering them ^ be-caufe I fee men had rather err thcmfelvcs, and calumniate the Author , than take notice of them : So hath Mr. Danvcrs done by me in a Book againft Infant Baptijm , where as an Introduction to abundance of miftakes in Hifto-ry, he abufeth his Reader by feveral fcraps of a Book of mine, fo curtailed as to be inefficient to fignifie the fenfe- And among them feigneth me tD write (chr. D/reff.p. 3. j^£. 885. /. 13. £ to Inftitute Sacraments ] as that which man may do, inftcad of [_ Not to Inftitute Sacrament s~\; and fo maketh his credulous flock to believe that I aflert that very thing which I write againft : Though the place was markt with a Star in the Errata^ and the Reader defired fpecially to Correct it. But fuch dealing is now grown fo common with fuch men, that we muft bear it as the crfed: of their difeafe.

PART. f.

What is the Troteflants <l{eligion, and what the Tapifts.

CHAP. L

The occafionof the Conference. ^

T R, I am come to crave your help in a • matter of great importance to me : I was bred a Proteftant • but the Dif~ courfes of fome Roman Catholicks, have brought me into great doubts, whether I have not been all this while: deceived : And though I cannot difpute the cafe my felf with you, Idefire you to difpute it in my hearing with a Catholick Prieft whom I fhali bring to you.

R. With all my heart: But let me firft ask you a few Queftions.

Que ft. i. Did you ever underfland what the Prote-flants Religion is ?

D. I take it to be the 39 Articles, Liturgieand Government of the Church of England*

K. No wonder if you be eafily drawn to doubt of that Religion which you no better underfland. Can you hold it, and not know what it is ?

Qncfl. 2. Do you know what it is to be a Chriftian ? D. It is to believe in Chrift, and to Love and obey Him. Cur Bap.ifm is our Chriftening.

R. Very true :' And in your Baptifm you are Dedicated and Vowed to God the Father, Son, and Holy

B Gbott

CM

Ghoft, renouncing the Lulls of the Flefh, the World and the Devil.

Que ft. 3. And have you been a true Chriftian, and lived according to this Vow ? Have you obeyed God more than the defires of your flefh ? Have you preferred the Kingdom of Heaven before all the pleafures, honours and riches of this world ? Have you fincerely fub-mitted to the healing faving Do&rine, Law and example of Chrift, and to the fan&ifying motions of his Holy Spirit ? Ana have you lived foberly, righteoufly, and Godlily in the world, and made it your care and bu-finefsto deny your felf, andmortifTe all flefhly inordinate defires, as it is the care of fenfual men to gratifie them ? D. I have had my faults as all men have -, but I hope none can fay but I have lived honeftly towards all • Affifif I have been faulty in drinking, fports or gaming, it hath been to no ones injury but my own.

R. I ask you not whether you are a/inner •, For fo are

all men. But whether you

Vohnf. Nov. Retr. k 426. Protr- are a trH i y p en i tem Convert-

itants formally fuch, have not , r J , ? ,

enough to be brought to the on- ed jimier j and whether yet

feigned Love o: God above all you are f m t0 y 0ur £ apt if

thills, and fpecial Love to his J ■> - J

fcrvants, :>ni unfeimcd willing malvoxv and Covenant f Can

hat VS* kn'^cTr Y our Confciencefay, that you

feeling thn . ju love God o<* h's Love^and Truft and obey God y

fervants, or willingH.fi to obey, and your Re deemer, before all

the world 7 and that you love not Pleafure, Riches and Honour, more than God and Holinefs and Heaven ? and that it is more of the care and buiincfs of your life, to Know and Love and ferve God better, and to make lure of your falvation, than to pleafe ywft Bcffi, or pro cr in N world ? I.. a word > 9 Do you tear ily and in vour ra&ice, take God for your God, |ey< for your Ail, an . :mlt, for your Teacher, King land Saviour, and the Holy Ghoft for your Sandifier,

turning

(3)

turning in heart and life, from the Devil, the world, and the (infill pleafures of the flefh ? This is the queflion which I defire you to anfwer.

But I will prevent your anfwer left you miftake my purpofe, and think I make my felf your ConfefTour, and I will tell you why I ask the queflion.

Either you have thus Kept your Baptifmal Fory, by a Godly life, or elfe you have broken it by worldlinefs and fenfuality, &c. If you have kept it, and are a truly Godly perfon, you have refolved your own doubt, and abfolutely confuted Popery already. For no honeft man and true Chrifttan can poilibly turn Papift without grofs contradiction. D. How prove you that.

R. Mofteafily: I pray you do but mark : i»Itis their principal Doctrine that the Pope is the Head of the Univerfal Church on earth 5 and that the Church fub-jefted to him, is the Univerfal Church -, and that out of that Church there is no falvation ; and that no one is a true member of Chrift and his Church, who is not a fubjeftof the Pope.

2. And they all confefs that every one fhall be faved that is a true Chriftian, and keepeth his Baptifmal Covenant, and that Loveth God above all. So that they muft needs hold that none in the world but Papifls, do truly Love God,& keep that Covenant,and are true Chriflians. Now if you can know that you have the true Love of God, and are true to your Baptifm, you muft needs confefs that Popery is falfe, which faith that none Love God above all but Papifts.

D. But what if I have not Loved God, and obeyed him, above my flefh ?

R. I'le tell you what followeth. i. It is no wonder if you forfakethe Proteftants Religion, who never truly entertained it. If your Heart and hifc were not de-

U)

voted unfeigne dly to Qod, you were no true Christian, nor indeed had any true Religion at all : And he that hatli no Religion, turneth from none which he truly had. If you were never ztrne Chrifttan, you were never a true Proteflant : And then what wonder if you turn Papift ? For you have no experimental Knowledge of that Religion which you feem to forfake.

2. And how could you exped better, but that God fhould penally forfake you, and give you over to believe deceits, if you have dealt fo falfly and deceitfully with him, as to live to the world and flefh which you renounced, and negled that God and Savtour and fandifier to whom you were fo folemnly devoted ? And if you have been fo treacherous and unwife, as to prefer a bruitifh tranfitory plcafure, before Gods Love and the Joyes of Heaven ?

3. And what honour is it to the Church of Rome y that none but Infidels and falfe-hearted hypocrites, and perfidious breakers of their Covenant with God, did ever turn to them > If you turn Papift, you confefs that you were a wicked hypocrite before.

4. But the chief thing which I would tell you is, that turn up and down as oft as you will, to this Church or that Church, to this fide or that fide, you will never be faved, unlefs you become a holy y ferious, mortified Chriflian: As long as you love pleafures, wealth and honour more than God and Holinef* and Heaven, youfhall never be faved, whether you be Papift, or a profefTed Proteftant. It would make the heart of a Chriftian ake, to fee fo many thoufands cheated by the Devil, to take «his opinion or that opinion, called the true faith, and this fide or that fide, called the true Church, to be to 'them inftead of a holy heavenly heart and life* And how many thowfands, efpecially Papifts, that are truly t)f no RtHoiotiy do difpute, and.plot and difquiet the

world,

(5)

world, as/«?r Religion, To hear a prophane man fwear that his Religion is right • or that man.to think to be faved for being of the true Church and faith, whofe heart was never fet on Heaven, but liveth in drunken-nefs, lying, idlenefs, fornication, and thinketh that the Priefts abfolution fets all right again. Without true Holinefs no man fliall be faved, what Church foever he joynwith > 9 and with it no man (hall be damned. For God cannot hate them that have his nature, and Image.

D. Well fir : I came not to difpute with you, but to defire you to meet a Roman Catholick Prieft, that I may hear you both together.

R. I have the greater hopes of you, becaufe you have fomuch regard of your foul, as to be willing to hear what can be faid. For raoft that turn to them, never come to an impartial tryal, But rafhly follow the deceiver, or flay till they are fecretly hardened by falfe insinuations, and then take on them to defire to hear both, when they are firft refolved to be gone.

But you muft tell me what is the queftion that you de-fire fliould bt difputed.

D. I would know whether the Papifts or the Prote-ftants be the True, and fafe Religion ?

R. I undertake to give you that plain undenyable evidence for your resolution, which fhould fully fatisfie any reafonable man, at leaft that profeiTeth himfelf a Christian .• fo be it you will perform thefe reafonable conditions : i. That you will be impartially willing to know the truth. 2. That you will honeftly refolve to Live according to it when you know it, and to be True to the True Religion. 3. That you will bring fuch a man to confer with me, who will yield to the Reafonable Conditions of a difputant, fuch as your Doubt and the nature of the matter doth notorioufly require, and not a Knave,

B3 and

cm

and ftudied Deceiver, who will fet himfelf purpofely to hide the truth.

IX Thefe conditions are fo reafonable that I mufl not deny them.

CHAP. II.

The Conditions of the Conference -, between a P. And R. and D.

R* CIR, I am defired by this perfon, who is brought

i3by fome of you to doubt of our Religion,to debate this Cafe with you in order to his fatisfa&ion, Whether the Papifis or the Proteftants be the True and Safe Religion ?

P. That is too large a Queftion : We cannot difpute of all our Religion at once: I will begin with you, about fome one of the Articles of the Church of England, or the Visibility of your Church in all Ages, or the Refolution of your faith, &?c. And this I will do only on thefe conditions, i. That you bring fome cxprefs Text of Scripture, which without your Interpretation, Reafonings or Confequences, doth affert that Article of yours which I fhall faccufe, or contradict any Article of our faith, which fhall be queftioned. 2. Or if you will go from the exprefs words to Rea-foning, that we keep to the ffri&eft Rules of Logick, and that you ufe nothing but Syllogifm, and that all be done in writing, and not by word of mouth.

R. Neighbour D. you promifed me to bring another kind of Difputant: You hear his conditions: you fhall hear my anfwer.

i. The Cafe which you told me you were in doubt of, and defired fatisfa&ion in, was Which is the True

*nd

(7)

and Safe Religion I This he refufeth to Difpute* Pretending that we cannot difpute of our whole Religion at once. But did you never hear him give any Rea-fons againfl our Religion ? If he have, Why can he not do it now ? I exped not all in a word , but let him give them one by one, and fay his worft. I am fure I can give you many againfl theirs: And we will after debate them particularly as largely as you pleafe.

2. \*i Writing be it that you defire for yourfatisfa-&ion, I ask you, whether you have read all, or the fourth part, of what is written againfl Popery already. Have you re_ad Dr. Challoner of the Catholick Church ? Dr. White y Dr. Field y Dr. Dow name of Antichrift, ChiHingwortb, Dr. <*Abbot, Dr. WiUet, Bifhop Vjher, Bifhop Morton , Dr. Stilling fleet , and an hundred more? Why fliould I expecf that you fhould read what I fhall write, if you will not read what's written already ?

3. Can you (lay fo long unrefolved without injury to your foul, till he and I have done writing ? You cannot but know, that from Sheets we muft proceed to the writing of Volumes, in anfwering each other, as others have done. And this is like to be many years work, for men that have other bufinefs: And how know you that we fhall all Live folong ?

4. Are you able when it cometh to tedious Volumes to examine them, and find who is in the right ? Or will you not rather take him to conquer, who hath the laft word ? And it's like that will be the longeft liver ?

5. And as to a ftricl: fyllogifticai form, do you un-derfland that beft } I avoid it not, but fhall confent to ufe it as far as you underfland it. Do you know ail the Logical forms of arguing, all Moods and Figure*, and all the fallacies ? Or do you not perceive, that you have broken your promife with me, and brought a

B 4 friend

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friend of darknefs, who cometh purpofely to hide the truth ?

D. Imuft needs profefs, that the Queftion which I would have debated, is, Which is the True and Safe Religion ? And that it is not tedious writings, nor long de-Tayes, but prefent conference which muft fatisfie me. And that it is plain Scripture and Reafon that muft fatisfie me, who underftand not Logick. I pray let me hear your own Conditions which you think more juft.

R. The Conditions which the nature of the Caufe direc^ech us to, are thefe.

I. That we firft truly ftate the queftion to be di-fputed : For we cannot difpute till we are agreed of what : That is, i. That we agree what we mean by our £ Religion ] ; and 2. That I tell you, what is the Religion of Proteftants, which I undertake to defend : And that he tell us what is the Religion of the Romanics, which muft be compared with it.

II. That our Conference confift of thefe feveral parts.

1. That premifing the principles in which we are agreed, I tell you the Reafons why you fhould not be a Papift.

2. That he tell you the Reafons why you fhould turn Papift, or what he hath againft Our Religion.

3. That then we come to difpute thefe Reafons di-ftin&ly : where I will prove my charges againft them, and he fhall prove his charges againft us one by one.

III. And that in all our difputes, we fhall confent, 1. Not to interrupt each other in fpeech 5 but if the length feern to overmatch the hearers memory, we will take brief Notes to help our memories, as we go, and crave the recitation of what fhall be forgotten : For the ftrength of Truth Iyeth fo much in the connexion of its parts, that when it is mangled into fcraps. by uncivil inter-

(p)

terruptions, it is deformed and debilitated and cannot be well underftood.

2. That we bind our felves by folemn promife, to fyeak nothing which we unfeignedly judge not to be truth ? nor any thing defignedly to hide or refill the truth which we difcern.

Thefe terms are fo juft and necefTary , that I will avoid him as a fraudulent wrangler who will deriy them. For I come Hot to fcold, nor to try who hath the ftrongeft Lungs, the nimbleft Tongue , or the lowdeft voice, or the greateft confidence, or fierceft paf-fion -, but to try who hath the truth, and which is the true way to Heaven. . For the fervant of the Lord muft not ftrive ? cfpecially about words and barren notions ; for that doth but tend to increafe ungodlinefs.

D. Your Method is fo reafonable, and fo fuited to my own neceftity, that I muft profefs no other can fo much tend to my fatisfaction: And therefore I hope it willnotberefufed.

(Here after long ,oppofition, the V. at laft agreeth to thefe terrqs ).

CHAP. III.

What it the Religion of the Troteftants.

R.

I. HpHe word [Religion ~\ is fometimes taken X Objellively ; And fo I mean by it, £ The objetts of Religious Belief > Love and Tr alike ^ ] which are, i. The Things themfelves ^ which are the principal objeEls ( called by Logicians, The Incomplex terms.) 2. The organical objett j or the Revelation of thefe Things 5 containing i. The Words or other Signs: 2, The fenfe or notions fignified.

For

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For inftance, Matth. 17. 5. [_This is my Beloved fin in whom I am well pleafed, 3 Here 1, The Real Incom-flex objett is Chrifi Himfelf, ihe beloved Son of God, and God the Fathers well-pleafednefs in him. 2. The fignal part of the organical objed, or Revelation, is the Words themfelves, as fpoken then, and written now. 3. The fgnified notions are the Meaning of the words, and are the chief part of the orgamcal objetf, that is the Divine Revelation,

The word \_Religion^\ is of larger extent in its fenfe than i" Faith 2 -> For it containeth all that Revelation which God hath made Neceffary to falvation ; which is twofold, 1. That which is to inform the nn-derflandmg with neceffary knowledge and faith. 2. That which is neceffary to a Holy Will and a Holy Life, to the Love of God and man, and to well doing ^ which are Precepts, Promifes and Threatnings.

11. The word £ Religion ~] is oft taken alfo fubje-Bivcly ( as they Fpeak ) y For the Alls and habits of Love and Obedience,

Now I fuppofe we are agreed that it is not Religion in this laft fenfe that we are todifpute of ( which is as divers as perfons are: ) But it is that which we call Objective Religion, even the Organical part directly. And if by all this *Z). underftandeth us not, in plainer words, our Queftion is, Of the True Divine Revelation, viz. Which is the True Rule of Faith, Will and Prattice ; that which is held to be fuch by the Proteflants: or that which is held to be fuch by the Papifts ?

T. I grant you, that this is the flate of the Que-(lion.

R, I here declare to you then, What is the Religion of the Proteftants. IT IS THE LIGHT and LAW OF GOD CONCERNING HOLY KNOWLEDGE and BELIEF, HOLY WILL and PRACTICE,

CON-

CONTAINED IN NATURE and THE TRUE CANONICAL SCRIPTURES.

Here note i. That our Religion hath its Efjential parts ♦, And its Integral parts and Accidentals. I. The Effentials of our Religion, are contained in the Baptif mal Covenant •, which is expounded in the CREED, the LORDS PRAYER, and the DECALOGUE ( as. delivered and expounded by Chrift, and the Law of Nature*)

11. Our Entire Religion, in the Effentials, Integrals and needful Accidentals is contained wholly in the Law of Nature and the Canonical Serif tures.

The Sffentials are delivered down to us two wayes: I. In Scripture with the reft ^ 2. By the fire tradition of the Vniverfality ofChriflians, in attual BaptizJngs, and the daily profeffwn ofChriftianity. This is all the Protefiants Religion. If you fatten any other on us, we deny it ^ we own no other. And none know What is my Religion, that is, What I take for the Rule of my holy Faith, Love and Life, fo well as niyfelf

P. This is meer craft : you will make that only which is paft controverfie among us, to be Tour Religion, that fo your Religion may be paft controverfie too.

R. It is fuch Craft as containeth that naked truth, which we truft all our own falvation on. I fay that I have no other Religion ^ And if you know better than I, difproveme.

P. I difprove you three wayes. I. Becaufe the Name Protefiant fignifieth no fuch Religion, but fome-what elfe lately taken up. II. Becaufe the Augu-fiane Confeffion, the thirty nine Articles and fuch like, are by your felves called The Articles of your Religion. III. Becaufe all your Writings declare, that befides thefe, you hold all thofc controverted points, which are contrary to that which you call Popery.

R<

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R. I prfly you mark T>. that he would perfwade you that he ktioweth my Religion better than / do my [elf > What if I fhould pretend the like as to his Religion f <^ere I to be believed ?

P. No : but if you have an odd Religion of your own, that prove th it not to be the Trot eft ant Religion.

R. Remember D. that I come not hither to perfwade yon to any other Religion, than this which I have mentioned. Let him talk as long as he will what is ^ other mens opinions, I perfwade yon to nothing but this, to take Gods Law of Nature and the Scripture for your Religion. Either this is Right ox Wrong. If Right, fix here and I have 'done, \iWrong, let that be difputed.

But yet I open to you all his three deceits.

I. The name Troteftant doth not fignifie our Religion, but our Frotefting againft the Papifis corruptions

and additions. I have no Reject againft chiUwgmnh cb. 2. ligion but Chriftianity: '" J am %Z ttH?fZ*$?Z% * ChriftUn, and that fignifieth

moujly to agree, than in this, that all my Religion* I am a Ca-

t*ZZ!&;°,££" falWphrifiUn , that -is, of

xvbkh they hold as the oniyfoun- the Common Chriflian Faith ihenVlnh t ™?w&ffif l £<£ andChurch,z\\& not of any he -this Confdfion. retical dividing Sett : And I

am a Reformed Troteftant Chriftian, becaufe / renounce Topery. Therefore I rather fay £ The Troteftants J than the £ Troteftant ] Religion. As if I were among Lepers ; If I fay; / am no Leper, that fignifieth not my EJfence : But if I fay, \_Iam a Man, and I am ?iet a Leper, ] I fpeak my Nature, and my freedom from that difeafe. So if I fay I am zChriftian Troteftant, I mean only that I am a Chriflian, and no Tapift, or renouncing Topery ^ as by the word \_ Cathotickjj I renounce all Seels and Schifms* I tell you, This is my meaning, when I fay , / am a.

Troteftant^

d3) Trotefiant : and can you tell my meaning better than myfelf?

11. And as to what he faith of the thirty nine Articles and o:her Church Confeftions, I anfwer, None of thefe are our Religion, in the fenfe now in queftion • that is, They are not taken by us to be \_ the Divine Revealed-Rule of our Faith , Love and Life ] which is our Religion now difputed of. And that this is fo, I prove to you paft all queftion.

For i. Elfe (hould we have as many Religions as wc have Qwrch Confejfwns, and fhould alter our Religion as oft as we alter our Confeffwns ^ and our Religion fhould be as New a9 thofe Confejfions: All which the Proteftants abhor.

2, All thofe very Confeffions themfelves do affert that Gods Word is our only Religion, and all mens Writings and Decrees are lyable to miftakes: To pafs by all the reft, thefe are the words of our fixth Article, £ " Holy Scripture containeth all things NecefTary to " faivation : fo that whatfoever is not read therein, nor lc may be proved thereby, is not to be required of any Ki man, that it fhould be believed as an Article of faith, " or be thought Requifite or neceffary to faivation ]. What would you have more plain and full ?

And in the Book of Ordination, it is askt £ u Are you perfwade'd that the Holy Scriptures contain fuffici-"ently all dc&rine required of neceflky for eternal " falvadon ? through faith in Jefus Chrift ? And are " you determined out of the fald Scriptures to inftrud: " the people committed to your charge ? and to teach xc Nothing fas required of necetfity to eternal falvati-" on ) but .that which you (hall be perftvaded may be iC concluded and proved by the Scripture ? J Is not this plain ?

P, Why then do you call the thirty nine Articles the

Articles

(i\)

Articles of your Religion ? And what is their ufe ? And why are all required to fubfcribe them ?

R. i. Their Ufe is to fignifie how the Conjunct Pa-flors who ufe them do mderftand the Holy Scriptures mthofe joints: And that partly for the fatisfaftion of oil forreign Churches , who may hear us accufed of He-refie or Error-, and partly to be a hedge to the Doctrine of young Preachers, to ^<?f them from vending miftakes in the Churches, and alfo to try the foundnefs of their understandings.

2. The Confeflions, and Articles, and Catechifms are our Religion, as the Writings of Perron, Bellarmine, Suarez,, &c, or many of thefe agreeing, are the Roman Religion: They are not the Divine Revelation and Rale of faith and practice to us: But they are the exprefften of our oven conceptions of the fenfe of feveral chief matters in that Rule or Revelation. So that they are the Exprejfton of our faith or Religion taken fabject™ tly (for alts and habits ) and not our objetlive Rule it felf Our Sermons and Prayers are our Religion in this fenfe : that is, The Exprejfton of our own Religions Conceptions: And fo are your Sermons and your Writings alfo to you. But if this were our Rule of Faith and Life, and fo our Divine Objetlive Religion , then we fhould be of as many Religions , as we are feveral per fens : For every one haeh his feveral Exprejfuns: And every new Sermon, or Book, or Prayer, would be a new part of Religion. And fo with you alfo. So that this doubt is pall: alt doubt: Our Confefiions are but the exprejfions of our perfonal belief, and not our Rule of Faith,

III. And as to your third pretence f that we have other Articles as oppofite to Popery ) I anfwer, Our Religwn as a Rule ofFait\i and Worjhipis one thing: And our Rejecting all Corruptions and Additions is ano*

thtr.

(15) ther. E.g. My Religion is, that our God is only the true God. If now I fay aifo, that Hercules is not God, and Batch pis is not God, and Venus, Mars, Mercury } Pallas, Neptune,Pluto, Ceres, &c. are not Gods-, is this a new Religion, or an addition to the former ? If the Baptifmal Covenant be the Ejfentials of my Religion, and the Creed, Lords Prayer and Decalogue the Explication of it ^ and if the Scripture be my Entire Religion, and if the Papifts will come and add a multitude of new Articles and Corruptions, my rejecting of thofe additions , is no more an alteration of my Religion, than thefweepingofmy houfe, or the wafhing of my hands is an alteration of them. So that notwithstanding all that you have faid, my Religion is nothing but the Law of Nature and Scripture, and my rejecting of Popery, is no otherwife my Religion, than my freedom from the Leprofie, &c. is my humanity.

P. Obferve, I pray you, that It is no part of your Religion to be againft Popery.

R. Obferve I pray you, that Popery is againfi my Religion, that is, againft much of the Chriftian Religion j and therefore my Religion is againft Popery. But I will not quarrell with you about words; When God hath Revealed to us his Will, and the Papifts add their corrupting inventions, Gods Revealed Will is my Religion : your Corrupting additions are contrary to it: Call my rejecting fuch (Corruptions and additions, by the name o&my Religion Redu&ively ( as Nihil is ohjeElum Intellettus, & Malum Voluntatis ; and as non-agere is part of obedience ) ., or Call it no part of my Religion in the primary notion, but a Rejecting of its contraries • fo we underftand each other I care not.

The truth is, the Re jetting offome of your errors, directly contradicting the Scripture it felf, may be called part of our Religion, as the Negation of the Contrary

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trary is included in the fenfe of an Affirmative ; But your remoter additions, are contrary to our Religion, but not fo dire&ly. For inftance.* when the Scripture faith, There is bread after Consecration , and you fay There is no bread : My Religion containeth the AfTerti-on, that There is bread: Andfo includeth a contradiction to your Negative, that faith |" There is none~\* Now to fay, that It is none of my Religion to deny your Negative, who fay There is no bread, would import that It is none of my Religion which affirmeth that there is bread. Contradictions cannot both be true: Properly that word that faith There is bread is my Religion : But this word contradi&eth you that fay There is none.

But in another inftance y my Religion faith, that The Righteous fliall go into life everlafting, and the reft to everlafting punifhment • and tells us of a Heaven and Hell only hereafter : And you tell us of Limbus Pa-trum& Infanturn, and of Purgatory: The Scripture en-ablethus by confequence to confute this: but if it did not, it were enough for me to fay, It is none of my Religion, becaufe not Revealed by God in Nature or Scripture ; And as it is your Addition, fo to deny it, is not dire lily and properly my Religion it felf, but the Defence and Vfe of my Religion. God tells us in Scripture, that He created Heaven and Earth. If one fhouid afTert as from God, that God created ten thou-fandHeavens and ten theufand Earths, this is a faith of his own invention or addition, and it is enough for me to fay, / have no fitch faith ^ beciufe God revealeth no fuch thing. So tha<: ftill ihe Scripture is the Proteftants Religion as your Pulydor Virgil truly defenbeth them, and Oihers confefs.

P. All this is meer dek-fion : For It is not the words, but the fenfe that is your Religion ; as you will confefs. And if your Articles or Coufelllons contain

a falfi

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a falfe fenfe, or your Books or Sermons fhew that you falfly ex found the Scripture , your Religion is then falfe.

A'. Such Confufion may cheat a heedlefs hearer : But any one that will take heed , may quickly perceive, that you here fraudulently play with the ambiguity of the word [_ Religion '] and quite turn to another que-ftion; For you now ffeak^ of fubje£iive Religion, that is, of the Acls and habits of the ferfon : whereas we are difputing only of objective Religion, which is Gods Revelation and our Rule. If I underfiand any Texts of Scripture amifs, my faith is fo far defective in my felf. But Cods Wordj which is my Rule i is never the more imperfect.

I pray you confidcr how juftly you have fpoken. i. Is a mans ^Ach ef faith, Gods Word ex Revelation $ 2. What need you diipute of the Proteftants Religion , if we have as many Religions as ferfons f For it is as certain that we have as many degrees of our under-flandwg many Texts of Scripture ? 3. Would not this prove alfo as many Religions as ferfons among your felvcs ? Is it not mod certain that no two Papifts in the world, have juft the fame fenfe or conceptions of the Scriptures and Councils in each f articular. The Law of God is my only Religion, objectively, as now difputed of: If I mi flake any ejfential part of it, fo as to deny it, I am ferf on all) a Heretickj if I miftake any Integral part, I fo far err from the Rule of my Religion or faith. But I fti 11 profefe, that I take Gods Word or Law only for my fure unchangeable Rule or objective Religion, and I am daily learning to underftand it bet-t;r, and as foon as I fee my error I will reform it, :ni blame my felf and not my Rule. And I think 50 j will fay the (am: of your Rule ani of your fer fatal errors.

C P. This

r is;

P. This fl all not ferve your turn: For every Law muft have its promulgation : And if it be not manifc-fied to you that Scripture is Gods Law, and fufficient, it cannot be your Rule: I ask you therefore,

Qu. i. Is it the Scripture in the Original, or in the Tranflatiovs, which you fay is your Religion , Law or Rule t

R. I told you our Divine Rule confifteth of Words and Meaning, It is only the Originals which are our Rule or Religion as to the very words ; that is, Only the Original words, were of that Divine Infpiration. But every 'Translation is fo iar Coas Word, in fenfe , as it 'exprefieth truly 'he fenfe of the original words,

P. Qu. 2. I pray you what thenis^the Religion of all the unlearned Proteftants, who know not a word of the Originals ? They may fee now that you have ftript them oi all Divine Religion.

R. Their Religion is the fame objectively with that of the moft learned, as deliverer from God » but it is 'not equally learned and underftood by them • Cods Word in the Original Tongues is given them as the Rule of Faith and Worflrif ; zndTeachcrs are appointed to help them to underftand it. When thefe Teachers have Translated it to them, they have the fan:e fenfe, though not the fmc words, for their Religion. And to know the Words is not fo necefiary to falvation, as to kndw the fenfe for fentence ) though by other words: For the words are but means to know the Senfe ; and the fenfe but & means to know the Things, (viz.. God, Chrift, Grace, Glory, $c. ) And as they have the fame God, ftrift, Spirit y Grace, Glory, cj-c. to be the real ob-jells of their Religion, fo have they the fame 2>J-DoBrinc and Law in fenfe which is in the Originals.

P. Q. -<» And Jprav you, How fliall the unlearned

be

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be Cure that the Tranflations are true as to the fence } when you have no Divine Infallible Translators ?

R. I alfo ask you. i. How was all the Greek Church for many hundred years fure of the foundnefs of the Tranilation called the Septuagint ? or that of Aquila, Theodot.Symmacbtu, &c. when it is certain that in many things they were all unfound ?

2. How was the Latine Church fare of the foundnefs of their Tr an flat ion before flier on, e amended it ? And how have you been fure fnce then, when Pope Sixtm^ and Pope Clement have made fo many hundred alterations or differences ? Had you then Infallible Translators ? And why then do your Tranflators ( as dMontanus and others J flill differ from that Vulgar Latine ?

3. And how do all your unlearned perfons know that you give them not only the true fence of the Scriptnres } but of all your Councils or Traditions ?

But I will anfwer you directly. We ftill diftin-guilli the Effentials of our Religion^ irom the Integrals and Accidentals. 1. The unlearned may be certain that the EJfentials are truly delivered them in fe?:ce : Becaufe they have ihem not only in the Scripture, but by Vntverfal certain Tradition jn the cenflvant VfeofCkri-Jfian Baptifm, and in [he ufc of the Crecd^ Lords Prayer and Decalogue in all ihe Church-afTemblies : And they may eafily know that mens tempers, Countrcys, Lite-rcfts, opinions in other points, and fidings are fo various, that it is not a thing poilible without a miracle, that all thefe fhould confpire both in ifalfe Tranjiation, and Vnivcrfal ajfertion and Tradition of all thefe Ejfcn-tials. For the effects muff be contrary to a torrent of Caufes : The Papifts, Proteftants,Arian$, Greeks, $ocf-nians, Lutherans, Calvinifts, Anabaptifts, Separatifts, &c. have.fo much animofity againft each other, that undoubtedly if any party of them did falfifie Scripture even

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in the Effentials which arc eafily difcerned, multi.udes would quickly detcd it and contradict them. And this the unlearned may furely and eafily difcern.

But as for all other Ufs neceffary texts of Scripture, neither you nor we , learned or unlearned, are certain that they are perfeilly tranflated, nor are they by any one perfectly under flood, nor are they fure ( by reafon of the various readings ) which ccpie of the original is abfolutely faultless.

2. But fuppofe that an unlearned weak Believer were not abfolutely certain fas he may be) that the very ef-fentialsof Chriftianity are truly opened to him, he may yet grow up to better underftanding, and he may be fayed with [owe doubt ings of Chriftianity it ft If, fo be it his Faith be more prevalent than thofe doubting?, upon his Heart and Life.

P. Is it a fafe Religion which you your felf defcribe ? When no man can be fure that he rightly underflandeth all the Scriptures? and when your believer is uncertain, even of Chriftianity it felf ? Let D. Judge whether this be a fure Religion.

R. The word of God is abfolutely certain in it felf* but that fo much uncertainty may be'in believers, 1 will make you to your fhame confefs your felf, and recant thefe inlinuations.

^. i. Dare ycu fay that all your Church, or any one man, even the Pope hi???felf, doth underftaud all the Scripture ? or can perfectly and infallibly tranflate each word? You dare net fay ir. Elfe why did he never once pretend to give us either an unerring Commentary or Tranflation ? And why have you fuch great divtrfity cf both ?

^.2. How much lefs dare ycu fay that any of you perfectly imderftand all the Councils, which are the reft of your Religion ? No nor that you have certainty

which

(Zl)

which are the true Copies of them all ? elfe why do Caranz,a, Crab, Surius, Binniiu, Nicolinm, &c give give us fuch various Copies ? And yet you confefs the Scriptures to be Gods word, and with the Councils to contain your Religion.

^^3. If God have promifed falvation, to all that truly nold and pra&ife the Effentials (the Baptifmal Covenant) doth the difficulty of other points fin Gene-alogie, Chronologie, Hiftory, by-matters) either make our falvation ever the lefs certain, or any way impeach the word of God ? What difgrace is it to a man that befides Head and Hearty he hath fingers, and toes, and nails and hair ? No more is it to the Scripture, that as our entire Religion, it containeih even Integrals and Accidentals.

Q^ 4. And as to a Doubting Believer •, I a^k, Dare you iay that all thofe were infidels or in a flate of dam- s e the Ro PVn i atA - where

• r 1 r , . this is conkftj C\ . 1. q.u

nation, who laid, Lord in- la g.<^ creafe our faith f or Lord we

believe • help our unbelief? or to whom Chrift faid, Why are ye afraid O ye of little faith ? or that faid, Luk. 24. We trufled that this had been he that foottld have delivered Ifrael ? Or if a man fhould doubt even of the Life to come, and yethrs faith be fo much more powerful than his doubts, as that he refolveth to prefer his hopes of Heaven before all this world y and to feek it on the mo ft fclf-denying terms, even to the laying down of life it felf, are you fure that this manfiall be damned I But this is the Courfe of pievifh wranglers. To maintain their own opinions and put a face of certainty on their own conclufions, they ftick not to damn almoft all the world. For it will be no lei^ if all doubting be* litvers rauft be damned,

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5. It is a grcfs delufion to pretend that there is 3

necefiity, that AH Gods In-St.- Dr.. f;V/..v« ^/m/ f.-iu, l".t. fallible word, muft- needs be

taught us by as Infallible In-fpired Prophets or other perfons, as thofe that firft delivered it f Tr an fat ion is but the firft part of expo fit i-on, And muft we have none but Infallible or Prophet i-caL Expo fit or s f

6. Is it All the Scriptures, or but jW/f part 1 , that your Pope or Councils can Infallibly both tranilate and expound ? If but forte, we need not their Infallibility or Jnfpiration, for the mo ft plain and necejfary parts: It is andean be done without them. If it be All, how impious and cruel are they that would never do it to this day ?

7. And why life'all your Expositors the common helps of Grammars, Lexicons,- Teachers, long fludies, and yet differ dc fide (even of the fenfe of many a text cf Scripture ) when all is done, if your Pope have the gift of Infallible Tranflating and expounding all ?

P. Remember that your felves derive your Effentials from Tradition .

R. Yes, and our Integrals to : What objective pre-fence to thefenfes, (eyes and earsj of thofe that heard Chriftand his Apoftles, and law their mir cles was to the fy ft Converts in thefe times, tt.u partly Tradition

is to as, or the neccfiary

He tint would know what ftrefs medium. The Words COUli we hy on Traditiot^as the Me i • i

diuTi may ^ it fully in m/ ft«* not come down to US, Wltll-),7. oj <■;■„>:. k ,. ,-. And Dr. ouc f^Hie to deliver them.

Ji,-Ja-:n k more tor us than tor * -, r i i „ / , , n- / •

fie iVpi(t-, c./,. 5 . We have the i?;i>/V by Trafc-

#>#,, and we have praiiical Tradition of Baptijm and ihe (freed by if /Wf, and tha: in many languages; where we are furewehave all the necejfary fence. But do vou resnrmber that this is

Vniverfal Tradition, and not meer Roman Tradition \ fuch as is certain by moral Evidence, even the confent of all that are yet of crofs opinions and Interefts> (as to matter of faft) • Hiftoncal Evidence ^ and not the pretended certainty of a Pope and his favourites, pha-natically claiming a fpirit of Infallibility.

But I am not now difpuring with you, I am only telling you that the Proteftant Religion is nothing but Chrifttanity and the Scriptures, And all our Confef /ions are our Religion ( befides Confent ) but as our Sermons and Trcatifcs are, which vary as they are various exprefiions of mens various fubje&ive faith ■, while Cods word varyeth not.

P. If the Bible be your Religion, then the Ceremonial Law of Mofes is your Religion ; For that is part of the Bible.

R. Youfludy what to fay againft another, and never think how it concerneth your (elves, i. Is not the Bible at leaft Part of your Religion ? You dare not deny it. And is the Ceremonial Law of Mofes therefore your Religion f

2. I told you that as a perfetl man hath hair and nails, which are but Accidents, fo the Bible hath more than fa Integrals of our Religion.

3. The Ceremonies of Mofes in that fenfe as now they are delivered to us in the Bible, are parts or appurtenances of our Religion : That is, the hiftorical narrative of thofe Abrogated Laws, which now bind us not as Laws, but tell us ( as the Prophefies ) what wat hire tofore, and how Chrift was fore-typified, and what intimations of Gods will we may gather from thehiitory. And the abrogated Laws are no othcrwife delivered to us, and fo we mult ufe them. ,

P. If the ten Commandments be your Religion, you muft keep the Jewifh feventh day Sabbath:

C 4 fo

I 2 4) jp that neither there can you fix,

R. The fame anfwer will ferve. i. The ten Commandments are no other wife part of mr Religion trun they are of yours. 2. They are a Law to m y as delivered and expounded by fr ri ft-> an ^ m Nature : and the feventh day is an abrogated part of Afofes Law.

P. If the faed be your Religion, you muft take the Ariicle of Chrifts defcent into Hell to be necefiary to falvation.

R. i. Is the freed no part of your Religion ? As you anfwer, fo may we. 2. I did not tell you that the Creed had no more than the EJfentials. I told you that all iIk EJfence of Chriftianity is in the Bapifmal Covenant ; And he thar underftandeth fW, underftandeth it all. And that the Creed, the Lords Prayer , and the Christian Decalogue are the expofition of ir. But the Expofition may have fomewbat more than the Ejfentials. 3. The freed was not written firft in Englifh, nor Latine ; And Chrifts defcent to Hades is more needful to be believed, than his defcent to HeH, as the Word is commonly taken in Englifti.

But, to conclude, remember, 1. 1 hat I profefs here to own and plead for no otber Religion (as we explained the word ) but Gods Law of Nature and Scripture. 2. That I profefs to perfwade D. to no other : And you cannot make me a Religion againft .my will.

CHAP,

CHAP.,IV.

What is the fapifis Religion.

F. T Have plainly told you what my own, and the X Prote&ints Religion is, viz. [Nothing but Qmi-fiianity ; contained Integrally in the holy Scriptures • And the ElTentials being the Baptifmal Covenant, explained in the (reed. Lords prayer and Chriftian Decalogue^ are delivered to m both in the Jaid Scriptures, and by diftind Tradition • which alfo hath brought down to tu the Scripture it felf : Not a Tradition depending on the pretended Authority of the Roman Pope or party, or on any other that ft all pretend the like 5 But that Hiftorical Evidence ^/matter of fad:, which is fure-Iier given us by all forts of Chriftians, taking in tht (oneord of many Heretickjy Infidels and Enemies • which evidence dependeth n*t on the credit of fuperna-tural Revelation, but on the natural credibility yea and certainty of fuch univerfal Circumftantiated Concordant teftimony y and is necejfarily antecedent to the Belief of fupernatural Revelations in the particulars, as fight and hearing were in the auditors of Qorifi and the Apofiles -, feeing thefe two Atts of Knowledge^ [^Whatever God faith is True 5 and This God faith ~\ mufi necejfarily go before our Belief or Truft that £This is True, becaufe God faith it.] And fo we run not in a circle ', and need not a fupernatural faith , for the founding of our firfi fupernatural faith ; that is y Afirfi before the firfi. ]

Without fraud or obfeurity this is our faith and Re-ligion.

Now do you as honeftly and plainly tell me What is Tours, which D. muft be perfwaded to : For I confefs

that

that I take it to be an unintelligible thing, and defpair that ever you give any man a certain notice, what it is, which may be truly called the Religion of your Roman-Catholick-Church.

P. I (railmake youunderfhnd it if you are willing: But i. Note that [Religion'} being a larger word than [faith ~] includeth alfo \Prallice~\ or [Manner s\ we muft give you a diftina account of each : For • they have not the fameCaufes: Our Faith is -Divine-, But our Manners or Practice muft follow the Lavas of the Churchy as well as the Immediate Laws of God : Thefe muft not be confounded.

R. Man hath three faculties, Intellective, Volitive and Vitally-Executive, or Active: Our Religion fubjetlive-ly muft be in all, itisu The Sanctity of all, by Holy Ltfe y Light and Love : And therefore the Rule which is our objeSiive Religion doth extend to all, ( to bitelletl. Will and Practice ), And furely for All, there is a Rttle diretlly Divine, given by Infpiration of the Holy Ghofi or Chrifts own words, and fubordinate Rules by Qorifis Minifters,w\\\c\\*tt directly Humane; and no other-wife Divine than as God hath in General authorized them thereto. Even as the Soveraign hath the only Vmvcrfal Lcgiflative fower, and Magiflrates by Him are authorized to fubordinate mandates and acts of Government. 'And fo we have a Divine Faith and Revelation, and a fubordinate Humane faith and Minifterial Revelation or Preaching : We have Divine Pcrfwafi-ens, and fibordmate Perfwafwns of men : We have Divine Laws, yea and executions •, and we have Humane fubordinate Laws and executions. If you refolve to cati the Humane, Divine fo far as they are indeed Authorizedby God, I will not quarrel about words : But remember, z . That fo you muft do alio on the fame reafons, by the Laws of Kings and the Commands of

Parents,

( 2 7 J Parents, who are as mnch authorized by God to their proper Government. 2. And 1 hope you mean not to Confound thefe Humane Laws, with Gods own Vni~ ver/al Laws , nor humane faith with Divine faith* And be it known to you, It is the Divine Revelations and Laws as diflinch from the Humane , which we are now calling our Religion, and difputing of - though this Religion teach us to obey Parents , Paftors and Princes, and that obedience may be confequentially and redudively called Religions if you pleafe. But if really your Religion be noi Divine, but Humane, let us know ir f For by the word \_ Religion ~\ we eflentially mean that which is [_ Divine. ]

P. Men were the fpeakers and writers of the Scriptures, and fo far they are humane, as well as the Decrees of the prefent Church.

R. The Decalogue waswittenby God, and delivered by the Miniftry of Angels: Chrift was owned by a Voice from Heaven. And himfelf fpake and did moft recited by the four Evangelifts: And the Prophets and Apoftles fpake by the immediate Infallible Infpiration of the Holy Ghoft : So that the Holy Ghoft is the Author of the Scriptures. Eut the prefent Paftors of the Church inftead of that Immediate Revelation from •God by the Spirits Infpiration , have but the ordinary help of the Spirit, to underftand thofe fame Revelations , and that proportioned to the meafure of their diligence , natural farts and helps of Art , as the knowledge of Theologie is attained by other Students ^ who are none of them perfed: or free from error.

P. I will tell you what our Religion is, It is Cods Word concerning things to be Believed and Done delivered partly in the Canonical Scriptures, And partly by

OralTraJition, and received bythe Church, and by it

delivered to us. The Trent,

&. Was it from the Church that Catech. Prefac. q. 11. faith,

the firft Church received it ? Or ~ j ,1 • •

was it not the fame Divine Reli OmntS doCtriTlA ratio, qua

gion which the firft Church (whe pdellbus tradenda fit , Wr£<?

thcr Council or Pradicers) re •* i-a

reived without the TraJiti™ of Vei contmeiur, quod in Sen-

Councilior Praters? If fc, this mm am, Traditionefq- diftri-

cannot be e(fcntial to Religion. * ' „ rr , * V' r J r

If the Apoftles words were to be vutum ejt, 1 be Rcajon OJ

believed, their proved Writings Vfry doctrine which is to

are to be believed. And tneir . / .. , .

Writings were proved their, be Ve delivered to the faith-

by each Church and oerfon that OJ God , VPtfjCtf IS dlftribu-%™^ E ^ khom:n ;° n: ted into the Scripture and

Traditions.

Vide Concil. Senonenf. in Bin. Deer. 5. p. 671. & Concil. Tridentini SefT. 4. p. 802. — Pcrfpicienfcjue banc Veritatem & difciplinam contineri in libris fa-cris, & fine fcripto Traditionibiu, qua ex ipfius Chrifti ore ab jipoftolis accept*, & ab ipjis Apoftolis Spiritu fanlbo dill ante quafi per manus tradita, ad nos ufque pcrvenerunt , orthodoxorum patrum fententiam fequu-ta, omnes libros tarn Vcteris quam Novi Tefiame?iti,nec nonTraditiunes if fas, tumadfidem, turn ad mores per-tinentes, tanquam vel ore tcnus a Chrifto, vel a Spiritu fancio diclatas, cjr continua fnccejfione in EcclejiaCa-tholica confervatas, pari putatis ajjcchi & rcverentia fufcipit ac vencratur.

Edlarmin. de Ferbo Dci y lib. 4. c. 2, 3. fheweth the divers forts of unwritten Traditions which are part of Gods Word : fome de fide, as the perpetual Virginity of Mary , that there are but four Gofpcls y &c. and Tome of Manners -, as Croifmg, Fafi-dayes, cj-c. fiafter, lVbitfontide y and other Feftivals.

Vtron

(29)

Veron de Reg. fid. cap, 2. faith, [ u The total and u only Rule of the Catholick faith, to which all are " obliged under pain of Herefie and Excommunication, u is Divine Revelation delivered to the Prophets And " Apoflles, propofed by the Catholick Church- in her a General Councils , or by her Univerfal pra&ice, to u be believed as an Article of Catholick faith. ~] [_ "All " that is of this nature is an Article or doctrine of " faith. And no other dodrine -can be of faith , if " cither the firft Condition fail, viz. Divine Revelati~ "on, or the fccond, which is a Propofal by thellni-"verfal Church. ] p. 5. No doctrine grounded on " Scripture diver fly interpreted, either by the antient' n Fathers or our Modern Doctors, is an Anicle cf faith. "For fucha do&rine, though it may be revealed, yet " the revelation is not afcertained to us, nor propofed

u by the Church ;

u Nor any Propofition which S o that if the Doftors win but " can be proved only by con- diff " cr in their Expofitions, the

cc r j c e> - Scripture is no more the fure

fequence drawn from Sen- Wor \j ot ' Godi or to be believed u pture , though the con- b y catholick faith. u fequences were certain and <c evident, and deduced from two proportions of Scri-

u pture Yet thefe doctrines are Certain, when

" the premifes are fo. Gratians decrees — the

Ci Papal decrees contained in the body of the Canon " Law , none of them do conftitute an Article of

" faith Nor that which is defined in Provin-

<c cial Councils, though the P. peprefide in perfon

" for the fecond condition is alwayes wanting in this

<c cafe, and very often the firft- p. 11. I did not

" fay that fuch definitions

" were not of faith 2^ii?°* ^ m a Genor21

u but they are not of Catho-

*! licKfath y or which all as Catholicks are bound

(30) " to hold-as of faith , and the contrary to which is " heretical, and removeth from the bofome of the

a Church. p. 12, 13. The

Mark then, that it may be de fi.le cC Pratlice even of the Vni"

dwina, though not oftachclick tt * C^i r>L... ^L i* ~~ /•„/!:• n -cejjhy without the pro,ofal of njCr J al Church IS no fuffiCl-

Council or univerfal prattLe. Cc ent ground for an Atti-

"cle of Catholick faith \ cc by reafon the objed: of faith is Truth : and a oft times the Church proceeds in matter of pratlicc^ tc upon probable Opinions , and this probability is fuffi-<c cient to juftifie the praclke, which the Church on " juft caufe may change : As e.g. as Vafyucz. teach-* eth, the Church did antiently pray in the Mafs for cc Infidels alive, and Catechumens dead, and the Sacri-u fice of the Mafs was offered for them, and yet he

« ; rather inclineth to the contrary , that the vSa-

ic crifice of the Mafs ought not to be offered, but for the cc faithful living and dead , by which Opinion the " Church feemeth guided at prefent. But Vafquez. <c anfwers, that the Church following a probable opi-u nion did pradife that which fhe.did not declare to

<c be of faith. p. 15. So General Councils

i( when they mention any thing in this manner ( by way £C of fimple afTerrion ) and do not properly define; " For as Be liar wine affirms, it is nccefTary that Gene-" ral Councils properly define the thing in queftion, as cc a Decree which ought to be held as of Catholic^ Ci faith. Hence BelUrmine adds, they are not proper-cC ly Hereticltj, who hold the Pope not to be above all 11 Councils, though he fay the laft Laterane Council " under Leo the tenth Sef. 11. exprefly and profeflldly " teacheth that the Pope is above all Councils, and " rejedsthe contrary D cree of the touncil of Bafil: 11 becaufe it is doubtful \v\\q htr ihx Later an e Council •"defined that do&rine properly as aDecreeto be be-

a leived

! " lievedwith Catholic^ faith. The fame Bellarrm. (de u ConciL I. i.e. 19.) alfo requireth that the definition "btnxiAeConciliarly: Pope Martin the fifth faid, he ic only confirmed thofe Decrees of faith which were " made in the Council of Conftanee , Conciliariter : " that is, after the manner of other Councils, the que-u ftion being firft diligently examined : But its clear u ( faith he) that this Decree, that a General Council u hath immediate authority from Chrift, which all, "even the Pope, are bound to obey, was made without

"any examining p. 17. The object defined muft

" be truly and property an object of faith ^ and a <c Decree ought to be on a thing univerfaliy propofed

Cc to the whole Church Vafquez. holds t It is

" noc at all erroneous to affirm that a General Coun-cC cil may err in Precepts, and in particular Judge-

<c ments ^and (p. 19. ) in framing Laws not

cc neceflary to falvation ; or making fuperfiuous Laws— u Without all doubt a General Council may err in a " queftion of fad : ( which depends on teftimony and cc information of men: ) So the fixth General Council " condemned Honorms of Herefie by fa[fe Information,

<c and mifund rftanding his Epiftles. p.20. The

" Pope ( faith Suarez.) to a particular action belonging " to humane Prudence , hath no infallible affiftance of

u the Holy Ghoft As that fuch or fuch an excom-

" munication is valid, or that fuch or fuch a Kingdom <c is difpofable by the Pope for fuch and fuch caufes. ] So far Verorty who is raoft favourable to you , in narrowing our faich.

R. Thus far you have refolvedme i but I muft crave fomewhat more. Q^. 1. Are there no EfTential Con-ftituiive parts of your -Religion , more necefTary than the Integrals and Accidentals f Have you no description for it, but that It is Divine Revelation propofed by

the

tVi)

the Church t The Dofirine of Sacrificing was a Divine Revelation to Adam, and the difference of clean arid unclean Beafts to Noah , and the Jewifh Law was Gods Revelation to Mofes and them ; And yet I fuppofe Chriftianity is fomewhat different from all thefe. Is not Chriftianity your Religion ? Hath Chriftianity no Conftitvtive fpecial EjfenceJdUt only the Genus of Divine Revelation which is common to that with all other Divine Revelations ? And what if you add [" to a Prophet orApoftW} ? Was Agabus Prophefie of Paul, or Pauls of the event of the ihipwrack, &c. effential to Chriftianity l Hath Chriftianity no Ejfence r Or is all Divine Revelation ejfential to it ?

P. You take advantage of the difagreement of our

Dodors. You know that

r johtf. Kcv. Kep.r. 19. of the ex- fome few acknowledg diftinfi

^?7/J™ '*$&% fundamentals, and fome deny

xckat are the points necefary to the diftindionin your fenfe :

be believed explicitly neceditate a^J-», n. ~C ~ 1* ., »U ^ meiii : Some, and dfe the more And llioft of US lay, that 110

antient hcu, that the exMiei* man can enumerate the

belief of God. of the whole Trini- 1 • rr 11 1

tyjft'bijtlb* Pafio*, Kcfurre. things neceflary to all , but

ctiov, &c. are necejfary needfitate that it dcpClldeth UP0I1 mens medii : Others among' ihereeer . • • 1 tiers, that no more than the belief VariOUS Capacities, education Ptii', and that he is the ons anC l means of kllOWinP. nvrard'.r of cur work*, is abf - \ . r . V johmly necefary rrith that nc Alld in ium, that 110 more IS cvjjir^tebeexvlHtelylzluve.'. necc flary [Q ^\[ [0 fc e ex .

plicitly believed , but that Gods Revelations are true •, and that All are Gods Re-velations which the Church propofeth as juch.

You may take our judgement much from him that cometh neareft to you, whom I have heard you much praife, as moft moderate and judicious, w'*,. DxMJdul-den AnaL fid, L i.c, 5. Lett. 2. p, 53. [ a Divines tc difputing of the receiiuyof points to be believed, do 4£ commonly tend tbis way, to denote the Articles of

" thing

fit)

u things revealed, the explicite and exprefs belief "whereof, is (as they opine) altogether necefTary t6 u all Chriftians. The refolution oi which queftion is " among them fo doubtful and uncertain, as that they <c are in this ( as ft> they are in all things elfe ) di-"ftra&ed and divided into various Opinions: which <c they that care for them, may feek: To me they are " as Nothing, while the Authors of them profefs, that c< they have nothing of Certainty, Yea> to one that " meditateth the matter it felf, laying by all preoccu-u pation, it is moft clearly manifeft, that the Refolutiori u of this queflion is not only unprofitable, that I fay not u pernicious, (as it is handled by Divines^) • but alfo vairi cc and importible. It is unprofitable, becaufe no good ac-<c crueth by it to fouls. Q$* It is pernicious, while Divines "for the moft part afTert, that only One or Two Arti-a cles, yea, ( as fome fay ) no fmgular Article at all, is "necefTary to be believed of all by an explicite faith: " For hence ( however the truth of the matter be ) " the colder Chriftians taking occafion, do little care <c to obtain that degree of Knowledge in the Myfteries " of faith, which they might commodioufly and eafily " attain. It is Jmpoffible , feeing it is Manifeft, that no " particular Rule or Points to. be believed, or Number " of Articles can in this Matter be given or afligned, cc which (hall be wholly common and necefTary to all " Chriftians: For this dependeth on every individual " mans natural capacity, means of inftru&ion, and ail cc the other circumftances of each mans life and difpo-" fition, which are to each man fo fpecial, that we can <c determine of nothing at all that is common to all.

cc But I handle the Neceflity of points to be Believed cc in a far other fenfe : For the Articles of the Chrifti-<c an faith, which I now call necefTary, I do not at all' " underftand to be f»ch as all and every one muft di-

D << ftinftly

(34) <c ftin&ly know, or hold by explicite allent ; But I u mean only fuch, the belief of which is accounted u univerfally by the whole Caiholick Church, fo fub-" ftantial and efTential, as that he that will defervedly cc be efteemed, and truly be a member of it, mult needs , ,. "adhere to them all at leaft

He doth better interpret the di- L , T .. . . • T i n,

ftinftion of Expiidte andimpii- " Implicitely and Indirectly I

cite on another occafion, in ano- " t hat is, by believing what-

" foever the holy and Univer-u fal Church doth Catholickly believe and teach as a u Revealed Doctrine and Article of divine faiih. And li therefore he is for that caufe to be removed from <c its Communion and Society, who (hall pertinaciouily " and obflinately deoy the leaft $f them, much more " if he maintain the contrary, while he kjmvetb and "fecth thai it isihe Univerfal fentenceof that Church, " that we muft adhere to ihar as an Article of faith. And " in this fenfe I will henceforth ufe the word Necejjity.

R. This might have been faid in fewer and plainer words, vfe. That your Divines herein do commonly err, and that pernicioufly, and yet that indeed he is of the fame mind. y*&. that It is impofiible to name the Articles necefTary to be believed explicitely of all, bc-caufe each mans divers capacity, means and circum-flances diverlifie them to each : But thai only this one thing is explicitely to be believed, [That whatsoever the Holy and Univerfal Church doth Catholickly believe and teach as a Revealed Doftrine and Article of faith, is true.3 And therefore that no man muft per-rinaciouily deny any thing which he knoweth the Church fo holdetb. So that nothing is neceftarily to be believed actually and indeed, but Gods and the Churches Vtratky,

P. Another of ours that cometh as near ycu as rs.,ft, openeth this more fully, Davenfort alias Fr. a

(35)

SanBa Clara, Be. Nat. Crat. p. 11i, &c. £ " As to " the Ignorance of thofe things that are of neceftity of " Means, or End, there is difference among the Do-" dors: For Soto 4. d, 5. ^.5. er /. dfe iV^zr. $■ Crat. u c. 12. ^ Vega 1.6. c. 20. fnf.Trid. hold that now " in the Law of Grace there is no more explicite faith " required, than in the Law of Nature, Yea, Vega ib. " & Gabriel z.d.zi. q.i.ar. 3. £r 3. d. 21. q. 2.think " that in the Law of Nature, and in Cafes in the Law of u Grace, fome may be faved with only natural know-" ledge , and that the habit of faith , is not re-" quired. Whom Horantius terms men of great name, '('and will not accufe of herefie. I would this great "mans modefty were more frequent with modern Do-"dors. Yea ; Alvarez, deatix.difp. 56. with others, cC feemethto hold, that to juftification there is not at "all required the knowledge of a fupernatural objed " ( or the fupernatural knowledge of the objed. ) " Others hold, That boih to Grace and Glory is re-" quired an explicite belief of Chriil. Bunav. 3. iC d. 2$ y &c. Others, that arleaft to falvation is an u explicite belief of the Gofpel or of Chrift, though "not to Grace or Juftification. And this is common cc in the Schools, as Ferera fhews that followeth it: " And for this Opinion Scot us is cited — But I think he holdeth, that explicite belief of Chrift or the Gofpel, is " not of neceility of means as to Grace or Glory, as " 4. d. 3. q. 4. What is \ lainer than that now — " men may be faved without the explicite belief of

"Chrift- And I plainly think its Scetu/s and

" the common opinion, which Pfega followeth, and. " her 4. d.i. and Tetigiam \ " Thomifts Barnes 2. . Ye;.,

" the Trent Council, feemeth to favour it, Sejf. 6.C.4.

" ——p. 114. SoCcrdfd^a^ Medina^ Bradwardine.

D 2 "(& zAnd

cc £?* Aadfuch ( as have no explicite faith in Chrift ) cc are not formally without the Church, This way go " Vi&vria in 4. Relctt. 4. tit* Richard dc Villa wed. 3. "25. a. S.*.i r &c.

c<m Well faith Tctigianisz.d. 35. q.i.a.g. that if cc there were a fimple old woman to whom fume falfe " Opinion were preached by a falfe Prophet (e.g. that c< the fubftance of Bread remaineth with the body of " Chrift in the Sacrament) and fhe believe it : Doth

<c fhe fin by this? No. — p. 119. Yea, if fhe fo

"err through piety, thinking that the Church fo be-

" lieveth, perhaps fhe fhould merit, p. 720. For

" my part I think that the Vulgar committing themfelves " to the inftruftion of the Paftors, trufting of their " knowledge and goodnefs, if they be deceived, it will cC be taken for invincible ignorance, or at leaft pro-<c bable, ( as Herera ) which excufeth from fault!*

"nefs. Yea, fome Doctors give fo much to the

u Inftrudion of Paftors , that have the care of the " Sheep , that if they fhould teach , that fl$» hie & " nunc God would be hated, the rude Parifhioner were

"bound to believe him : which yet I think falfe

u p. 123. It feemeth at this day to be the common cc judgement of the Schools and Divines, that the Laity u erring with their Do&ors or Paflors are altogether u excufed from all fault • {r> Yea, oft times fo maternally erring do merit for the aft of Chriftian obedi-"ence which they owe their Paftors: as you may fee "in Talent. To. 3. difp. i.a. 2. p. 5. and others. So <c Angles 2.d.22.q. 2. dub. 7. Vafqu.p. 2. difp. 121. "Incafe they never doubted of the Veracity of their " Prelates

Much more faith Santta Clara there, to prove that the ignorant Protectants here may befaved ; citing further CO his end, Zanchez^in Dtral. 1.2. c. 1.;;. 8. Alph.

a. / rtflro.

k?7/

aCaftrOj Simanca^ Argon, Tanner , Faber, Eman r .fa, Ro^elL And out of Argon tells us when Faith is furfici-ently propofed, viz.. £ tc When faith is fo confirmed " by Reafons, holinefs of life, the confutation of the " contrary errors, and by fome figns, as that Reafon it (C felf begiitneth prudently to prefcribe , that ^ the mat-" ters of faith heard are to be believed > and the con-(C trary Seft is falle. 3 p. 125.

" And probl, 26. p. 127. Whether men may be cc blamelefly ignorant of the Law of Nature and the u Decalogue ? The common opinion is that they may 5 <c not of the firit principles, but 1. Of the eafie conclu-<c fions for fome time, and of the remoter conclufions c< for a longer time : Such are the Commandments of u the Decalogue as to the fubftance of the aft • as in " fome lying, theft, fornication, manflaughter ( in Will cc at Ieafl: ^ &c.

R. £u. 11. But do you think that men may not as invincibly and inculpably be unacquainted with the Authority of the Pope and Roman Councils or Church, as H-iden. 1.1. c 9 . p. 169. ^u-^t you fey they may be igno- S^SrffS rant ofChrift, and the Law fempr fomfe in dm ^ir.e

nfNhmri-? T inft-ance in rhe f ltum nov ' mi « ? S»^ndiu fane or r\acurc t 1 inrtance in une arhhretUY qui fi iam tujufrhodi

millions of the Abafjlne fidci alium lumini vaturalt tr rnrifl-hnc nrhn fnr ulvwp a WJoni obpofttum & contYari H m

^nrntians, wno ior aoove a e f ei „ equaqiia m ^em ad uium thoufand years never heard eiuicndum tftvingU from the Pope or his emiflaries.

P. That cannot bedenyed 3 For they have not the ne-cefTary means.

R . How then do you make your Churches propofal to be the necefTary point to be Explicitly believed of all?

P, We do not mean it of all that will befavecj: For D 3 you

(38)

you hear that feme may be faved without any ex^licite belief of Chrift. But'we mean it (fail thauW//be in the Church, and be faved there .

R. But do you not hold and fay, that out of the Church there is no falvation ?

P. Some fay fo : and fome fay that It is rare out of the Church.

R. But are the Ethiopian Chriftians out of the Church ?

P. They are out of the true Church, being Schif-maticks.

R. Why faid your Author before, that Infidels were not formally out of the Church who are invincibly ignorant >

Pi B .1: other Doctors are of another opinion. R. But Chrift is the Saviour of his body: Are not thofe of the Church who are faved, or in a flare of fal-vation ? What he-Id vou of that ?

P. S'imefay, They are all of the Church : and others that Cbri ft faveth more than his Church : And fome fay, that They are of the Church Regenerate, but not of the Church Congregate. But few own this, becaufe it is your diftindion : as of a viiible and invifible Church.

R. Qi±. III. Bur above ail, I would know of you, what you mean by the (ZitholickChurch, whofe propofal is neceflary to the being of f ith ?

P. We mean the Roman Ca holick Church : that is, t h e Pope and his Snb ,cUs*

R. Do you mean the Pope without a General Council, or a General Council wi.hour the Pope? or only both agreeing and conjunct >

R. You ta^e advantage of our differences: but thofe do but fhew, that this is no point of faith. Some hold that the Pope alone may ferve : aad fome, that the Pope

\ 39) in a Provincial Council : and fome that a General Council without him : But you heard Veron taketh in the Council, and it is no true Council without the Pope : And therefore the fureft opinion faith, that it muft be both in Concord.

R. But what is the Vniverfal Church whofe Pradicc is made fufficient inftead of, or without a General Council ?

P. It is the whole Roman Church real, diflind from the Representative.

R. Is it the Clergy only, or the Laity only • or muft it be both?

P. Both, but not equally •, but in their feveral places.

R. Muft it be All the Church, wkhout any excepted ? Or only the greater part ?

P. Thefe are points not agreed of, and therefore not of faith. Some fay that it muft be fo many as that the diflenters be not confiderable. But how many are considerable or inconflderable is undetermined. Others fay, It may be the minor part that pra&ife, fo be it the reft do not contradid it, or do contrarily.

R. I will trouble you with no more fuch queftions, ( though I have a multitude which fhouid be here re-folved ) for I perceive that we muft exped nothing but a Maze of uncertainties and confufion.

We are next in order to Agree upon our common principles which muft be fnppofed in our following Di-fpute : For they that Agree in nothings are uncapable of difpnting of any thing ; feeing all conclufions of which we doubt, muft be drawn from more evident truths^ of which we are lefs doubtful, and refolved into a conceded Principle.

D4 PART.

PART II.

The Trincipl's which Tapifts and Troteftants are agreed in : And therein the full Jufti* fication of all the rroteftants ( f{eligion.

T

"^He firfl: common Principle : That we are Men, having Reafon, and Free-will, and Senfe ; whofe Natural way of knowing things fcnfible, is by the perception of our fenfes }

having noway of greater Certainty.

R. I take it for a common principle, that we are Men, having Reafon, and Free-will, and Senfe : whofe natural way of Knowing things fenfible, is by the perception of our fenfes: And therefore that our rightly conflituted. or found fenfes, with their due media, about their proper obje&s are to be trufted •, being either certain, or we have no certainty.

P. I know what you intend : I grant it as you exprefs it.

R. It muft then be granted us, that there is true Bread and Wine in fubftance remaining after the words of the Mafs-Priefts confecration.

P. Yes: when you can prove, that the confecrated Bread and Wine are the proper objects of fenfe : which We deny ; they being not now BreadandWine.

R. Is it by the Perception of fenfe that you deny it ? gr by other means ? ' '

P. No:

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P. No : It is by Faith and Reafon which are above Senfe.

R. Now you come to deny the Principle which you granted: Senfe is the pcrceiver of its own objetts: No 'Faith, no Reafon can perceive them , but by fenfe : And if due fenfation perceive them, and Faith deny them, then Faith denyeth fenfe to be the proper natural ferceiver of its objetls , and our judgement of things fenfible to be fuch as muft: follow that perception. But we muft difpute of this anon, and will not now anticipate it. Only remember, that if you deny fenfe which is the firft Principle, no mortal man is capable of difputing with you, there being no lower principle to which we can have recourfe , and refolve our differences.

The fecond Principle : That there is One only God, In* fnite in Being, Power,. Wifdom andGoodnefs j Our Owner, Ruler andChiefGood • Mo ft Holy, 'Jufl and True, and therefore cannot lye ; but is absolutely to be belitved, and trufted, and loved*

R. I need not repeat it: Do you not Agree with us in this ?

P. Yes: Heathens ( that are fober ) and Chriftians are agreed in it.

R. You grant then, that this may be known by them that are no fubjeds of the Pope. Remember anon that we are not to be blamed for Believing God,

The

Kt* )

The third Principle : That the whole frame of Nature within U6 and without us (within our reach ) is the fvgnal Revelation of God and his Will to ynan • called ( Objectively ) The Light and Law of Nature.

R. I fuppofe that this alfo may p^fs for a common granted Principle.

P. Yes, as you expreft it : If we agree not of the Light and Law of Nature, we come fhort of Infidels, and meer Natural men.

R. Obferve then, that we are Juftificd bvyour principles, for Believing and Trufting Gods Natural Revelation. The very firft part of which is made to our fenf's : By Natural Evidence. God (heweth us that Bread is Bread.

P. Yes : when fenf ■: is found, and objects and media jufr, and God doth not contradict fenfe by fupernatu-ral Revelation.

The fourth Principle : That Natural Revelation is before fupcrnatural , and fenfe before faith, and we are Men ( in order of Nature at leaft ) before we are Chriftians , and the former is fttll prefuppofed to the later.

R. This alfo T fuppofe is a granted Principle.

P. It is Td • Bat fee that you raife no falfe confe-quents fr< m it.

R. I conclude from it, that He that denyeth the pei> ception of fenfe to be the certain way <of Judging of

things

things fenfible, denyeth all the Certainty of faith> y and fubverteth the very foundations of it: And that we are juftified for our Ailcnting firft to Gods Natural Revelations. It is God that made my fenfes and under ft an ding, and God that made the objebt and media, as Bread and Wine, and therefore God deceiveth me, if I be deceived in taking it for Bread and Wine after Confecration. But God is to be. believed, in his firft Revelations.

P. You vainly call Senfacion , and Intellection or Knowledge of things fenfible by the name of Believing.

R. We will not vainly contend about the Name, if we agree of the Thing: But this leadeth me to another Principle,

The fifth Principle: That the Knowledge of things fully fenfible hath more quieting , fatisfying Evidence, than our Belief of fuper natural Revelations alone, ai made to ns by a Prophet or Apoftle: And that where all the found fenfes of all men living do agree about their near and proper fenfible object, there is themoft fatisfying Evidence of all*

R.X fuppofe that we are all agreed alfo in this principle.

P. As you word it we are : For our Divines diftin-guifh of Evidence and Certainty: and are fo far from faying that Faith hath more Evidence than Senfe and Knowledge, that it is ordinary with them to fay, that this is the difference between Faith and Knowledge, and that faith hath not Evidence : but yet it hath no lefs certainty.

R. Some men life words firfl: to fport themfelves' out of their underflandings, and then to ufe others

to

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to the fame game. Evidence is nothing but the Tcr-ceptibility or Cognofcibility of a tiling : by which we call it Knowable ; which is the Immediate necefTary qualification of an Objetl oi Knowledge. Certainty is either Objective, which is nothing but this fame Cognofcibility or Evidence as in a Satisfying degree : Or it is Subjective or ACtive, which is nothing but the Infallible or Trite , and quieting fatisfuCiory knowledge of a Truth. Where the Certainty of Objetl and Act concurr : For no man can be certain of a lye or untruth : For to be Certain , is to be certain that it is True: Thofe therefore would befool the world , who would perfwade men, that a clear and confident perception of an untruth, or confident error, is Certainty. There may be Objective Truth and Certainty of the Matter , where there is not in us an Active or Subjective Certain Knowledge of it : But there can be no Active Certainty of an Obtitive Uncertainty, or certain Knowledge of a lye. Now if you mean that faith hath Ob.ettive Certainty without Evidence of Certainty, or Afcertaining Evidence ■, that is, but to fay and unfay i It hath Certainty and no C €rta * nt y : For this C crt ^ nt y' dn & Evidence is all one. But if you mean that Faith hath an Active Subjective Certainty without an Objective Certainty in the Matter, you fpeak p\\ impoili'oility and contradiction j a> if you faid, [ / clearly fee a thing invifnde or without light. J

P, Do you think that our Divines knew not what tlu-y faid, when thev fay that to believe without Evidence nukeih faith mentor torn f

R. The old afferters of this meant the fame that Chrift meant, when he faith to Thowat [B'cfjcd are they that have not feen, and yet have believed.^] There is a fenfible Evidence, and an Intelligible Evidence, Faith hath not an Immediate fenfelc Evidence * that is, we be-

(45 ) lieve things anfeen, and above kn(c : And this is their ; meaning-/ We fee not God, Ghrift, Heaven,Angels, ffc. But faith hath alwaies Intelligible Evidence of Ferity . and (as our Mr. R.Hooker faith ) can go no further than it hath fuch Evidence.

However, I appeal to any that have not been difputed out of their wits, whether, If Gcd would give us as full a fight of Heaven and Hell, and Angels and BlefTed fouls, as we have of the Bread and Wine before us, and as full a Hearing of all that they fay, in juftification of Holinefs, or Lamentation of fin, and as full fenfible acquaintance with the world we go to, and cur title to it, as we have with this world, I fay, whether this wouid not be more afcertaining and fatisfa&ory to us, and ba-nifh all doubts, more than our prefent faith doth ? I love not to hear men lie as for God, and talk and boaft againft their experience, as if the intereft of faith required it. Things revealed to faith Are Certain and Infallible. But that is becaufe we have certain evidence i. That Cod cannot lie » 2. And that God revealed them . and fo that they are True. But if we did fee, feel, tafie, dcd we fhould be more certain. Elfe why is it faid, that we now know but enigmatically and as in aglafs^ and as children-, but hereafter Jliall fee as face to face , and know as we are known, when faith is done away y as being more Imperfect than Intuition. We have evidence to prove, that the Revelation made to David, Ifaiah, Jeremiah, l Pctir, Paul, &c. were of God, and that their words are by us to be believed, &c. But to fee, hear, talk, feel, &c. would be a more quieting Af-furancc.

Therefore when all the found fenfes of all men liv-ing, perceive after confecration, that there is Bread and Wine, this Certaimy is, i. in order antecedent to that of faith) and 2* by Evidence, more fat isfy ing and affuring

than that of meer faith, as to a prophets Revelation -, And therefore to rejed it on pretence of faith , is a fub-verfion of o } \ natural methods of afTurance . and is but pretended, I think, by your felves.

The fixth Principle. That except thofe Immediate In-fpirations which none but the Jnfpired do Immediately and clearly perceive^ we have no Revelations from God, but by fignes ; which are created beings ^ and have their feveral Natures, and fo may be called Phyfical, though fignifying Moral things . And thus far our natural and fupematural Revelations agree.

K. Every being is either "Uncreated f which is God only) or Created (in a large fen fe, that is Caufed:) What God Revealed to Chrift, Peter, Paul, &c. we have knowledge of, but by fignes: In Scripture thefe fignes are Words : Thefe words fignifie partly the mind of Cjod, and the fpeakers or writers, and partly the matter fpoken or written. When it is fuid, that It is impoffible for God to lye, it can mean nothing to us, but that it is impoffible that God fbould make us a deceitful fign of his will. The voice of an Angel, Prophet, Apoftle, a thoufand Miracles, ore. are but fignes of the matter and of Gods will: And if God can ordinarily make faife natural fignes, we are left unafiured that he cannot make faife fignes by an Angel, or a Prophet, or a Miracle. And fo all faith is left uncertain.

P. Then you will make God a lyar or deceiver whenever any man is deceived by natural fignes.

R. Not fo : For men may deceive :hemfe!ves by taking thofe for fignes of a thing which are none, and fo by m fonder fan ding them. And the Devil and bad

men

(47) men may promote this deceit. JBut whenever Godgiv-eth man fo pLiia af:n of the Matter and his Will, as that no errour of an a-nfonyidfenfe^ zxiunqus'ified object^ a culpable or diieakd fantafie or 7«ff//fc^(hiterveneth, then Bf we are deceived it can be none but God that doth deceive us-, which cannot be, becaufeher^wf lye. And as it is an unrefiftible argument againft the Dominican doctrine of Phyftcal Predetermination as abfolutely necefTary to all alls of natural or free agents, that If God phyjically predetermine every lyar to ivery lye, that is mentally conceived or uttered, then we have no certainty but he might do fo by the Prophets and Apofiles ; fo is it as good an argument againft Papifts, that if he ordinarily deceive the fenfes of all found men by a falfe appearance of things feeming fenfible, he may do fo alfo by the audible or legible words of a prophet.

The feventh Principle. That he that will confute fenfe y and prove that we jhould not Judge actor ding to its perceptions , mufc prove it by fome more certain evidence that contraditleth it.

R. I fuppofe you will not queftion thi?.

P. No : The word or Revelation of God is a more certain evidence.

R. How know you that there is any word of Cod y but by vour fenfes ?

P. But yet by fenfe I may get a certainty which is above that of things fenfible. As I know by the world that there is a God, by a certainty above that of fenfe.

R. i. If that were fo, yet if things fenfible be your media, you deftroy your Conclusion by denying them, and undermine your own foundation.

2* But it is not true : The knowledge of the Con-clufion can be no ftronger than that of the pirincU pies, even of the weaker of them. If you are in any uncertainty whether there be Sun, Moon, Heaven^ Earth, Man, Beaft, Heat, Cold or any Created fenfible being, you muft needs be in as much doubt whether there be a God that made them.

The eighth Principle. That Believing or AfTenting is Intelle&ion of the Truth of fomething revealed, and therefore muft have Intelligible Evidence of Truth in the thing believed.

R< I know that Affiance or Trufi as it is the act of the W:ll, repofing it felf quietly on the Believed fidelity of God, is not Intellection. But the Affenting ad is an Intcllettion or an Act of Knowledge of a Verity ; not as Science is narrowly confined to principles, but as Knowledge is taken in gen ere for notitia. So to believe is no other than to know that this is true^ becaufe God faith it* Joh.6.69. We believe and are fare that thou art that Chrift, &c. Joh. 3.2. We know that thou art a Teacher come from God } for no man could do fuch Works^&c. Joh. 21.24. We know that his teftimoity is true — See Rom. 7.14. & 8.28. 2 Cor. 5. 1* We know that if this earthly houfe, &c 1 Tim. 1. 8. 1 Joh. 5. 2. Joh. 8. 28, 32. 1 Cor. 15. 58. We know that our Labour is not in vain^ &-c. Therefore your denying the certainty where.the evidence ismoft notorious and telling men of Meriting if they will but believe your Church, without any Evidence of certainty, is a meer chca:*

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The ninth Principle. That Jefius Chrifi is the Son of God And the Saviour of the World, and that Chrifiia-nity is the true Religion, and Gods appointed fufficient way to Heaven, including Godlinefs, which is its final part.

R* By Chriflianity I mean both our Believing, Loving and obeying Chrifi as the way to the Father, and our Believing, Loving and Obeying God our Father, as the end of Chrifts Mediation : The Knowledge of God and the Mediator being Eternal Life, Joh. 17. 3. And as Taking a man for my Phyficion, is taking him, by his .medicines to help me to my health, and fo Health is finally included* fo taking Chrift for my Saviour, is to take him by faith to be the means of bringing me to the Love of GWand to Glory : And fo I include Godlinefs in Chriflianity, and the Law of Nature in the Law of Grace.

P. We are agreed on the truth of this ; but not of the medium by which it muft be made known to us.

R. At the prefent I ask no more than that we agree in Chriftianity as the true and fufficient Religion and way to life.

The tenth Principle. That Baptizing is our Ckriftw-ing i And that all that are truly Baptized are £hri-ftiansj and mem for s of the vifible Church, untill they Apofiatize or arejufily excommunicate {at leafi.)

PA

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P. I grant you all this as a common Principle with Chriftians.

R. Then you grant us, i. That our Religion is the True Religion 9 of Gods appointment, fufficient to fal-vation : For it is Ckriflianity, which you confeffed to be fuch. 2. You grant that we are baptized into the true Catholick Church, which is the bodv cf Chrift.

The eleventh Principle. That all that are truly Bap-tizedhave the pardon of all their (ins, and have prefcnt right to falvation if they fo die.

R. I mean, that they that are Internally true Confent-ers to the baptifmalCovenant , and are baptized, have all thefe benefits of Baptifm : And that Infants have them as rightly dedicated to God and baptized : Do not you Content to this ?

P. Yes, you km w we do.

R. Then you fully grant, that all among the Prote-ftantswhoin Infancy or at age are truly baptized are in a ftate of falvation : Why then would you make people believe that there is no falvation in our Churches, when you grant the right to all that are Baptized.

P. But you are not Baptized by lawful Minifters.

R. Take heed what you fay : Your party holdeth that even Schifmaticks and Hereticks Baptifm is valid, if they have all that is eilential to Baptizing in the doing of it: Yea that a lay mans, or womans baptizing is valid. If you deny it, I will fhame you, by producing the common confen&of your Dv&ors •, and your cenfure

f 50

of Cyprian, and making the contrary do&rine to be a Herelie.

P. But you have not all that is eflential to Baptifm, becaufe you are not intentionally Baptized, into the true Catholick Roman Church : Fur while you are not fub-jed to the Pope, you are not baptized into the Church : and therefore Bcllarmine fheweth that indirectly we are obliged to the Pope by baptifm j which you intend not.

R. Come, come, ftrive not againft your knowledge.

1. If our Baptifm have not all that is efTential, why do you never rebaptize Proteftants when they turn to you? Do you not find that you condemn your felves ?

2. Why do not you your felves put the name of the Pope into your words of baptifm ? 3. Doth your Tradition tell you that the ancient Churches did baptize men into a fubjedion to the Pope ? 4. Did any of the Primitive Chriftians baptize men into the name or fnb-jettion of Peter or any Apoftle ? 5. Doth not Paul expreily renounce it as to himfelf and Peter, 1 Cor. i c 12,13,14, 15. Every one of yen faith, I am of Paul, and 1 of Apollo, and I of Cephas, and J of Chrifi : Is Chrifi divided ? Was Paul Qrmified for yon ? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul, &c . 6. Did not Chrifl: himfelf tell us all that was Eflential to baptifm in his in-ftitution, ajfrfatth. 28 without making any mention of Peter or the Pope ?

P* I cannot deny but our doctrine inferreth that all that are baptized among you have a true Sacrament, but not the Benefit of it, and fo are not in a ftate of pardon and falvation : Or at Ieaft when you come to age, by re-fufing the Pope, you turn Hereticks and lofe it.

R. I know fome of your divided writers fay that we have Sacramentptm, but not Rem Sacramenti : But 1. You fay that a Character is imprinted by Baptifm, and all fin done away, and the perfon in a ftate <tf life,un-

E % fefs

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lefs he come feignedly ^ which you will not charge on Infants, nor can you prove it by thofe of the Anabaptifls themfdves that are baptized at age. And faith Aquinas when the fldion ceafeth, the fruits of baptifm are obtained. 2. And it will be long ere you will prove that to be baptized into the name of the Trinity is uneffedual, if we leave out the Pope. 3. And you will hardly make a man underftand what you mean by the validity of the Baptifm of Hereticks and Schifmaticks, if it neither take the Baptized into the true Vilible Church, nor the inviii-ble (' or a flate of faving grace ).

And as to Infants lofing it as you fay at age by Herefie. 1. Will you fave all the Anabaptifls, that are baptized at age ? If their baptifm put them into a flate of falvation, and they continue jufl of the fame faith and mind that they were baptized in, fure that faith which put them in a flate of falvation, will keep them in it ^ or not be damning through dcfedivenefs to morrow, which made them heirs of Heaven to day. But you cannot make your dodrines hang together. 2. And they that are Baptized in Infancy are baptized into the fame faith which they continue in at age. The Minifler intendeth no other : The Parents, Sponfors, arc. intend no other: And will that prove defective even to Salvation after, which was faving then } 3. If Baptifm make us Chriftians • and if Chrifiianity be the true Religion , fufficient in fuo genere to falvation, then we that continue in the Qnifiianity which we were baptized into, by your confeflion continue in the true faving Religion:, And this is aU our Religion.

P. It is not every one that owneth Chrifiianity that frail be faved : Hereticks own it in general, and yet contradid it by their Herefie?.

F. It is every one that truly owneth Qoriftianity in mind and will that (hall be fayed : elfe Chrifiianity

were

(53) were not a faving fufficient Religion : The queftion is not whether objective foriftianity or faith be fufficient to fave him that believeth not, or is not fubjellively a Chriftian -, nor whether the dotlrine of faith be fufficient in omni genere : But whether it be a fufficient doctrine, or eb ettive faith, in fito genere ? If a Heretic^ deny any elTential part of it, he believeth not that which he ( really, underfhndingly and prevalently ) denyeth. It is but the Name of ftriftianity, and not the Thing, which he owneth, who difowneth any ot the effrnce. Our queftion is now whether our profeffed ob ecbive Faith be trite and fufficient . ? When you come ro prove us heretical denyers of any of its efTaice, we-will give you a fufficient anfwer.

The twelfth Principle. That the Effenee of our Religion or Chriftianity as Active and Saving, is Faith that worketh by Love : Orfuch a Belief in Cjod the Father, Son and Holy Ghofi, as is accompanied with a true devoting of our fe Ives to him, by Love and wil-lingnefs to obey his Laws, fo far as we know them ; in oppojition to the temptations of the world, the flejh and the Devil : And he that ps truly fuch fhatt be faved. >

P. I grant that he that truly Loveth God, fhall befa-ved : But a Proteftant cannot truly love God, becaufe he hath not true faith.

R. Do you not agree and confefs then, that If any Proteftants do truly Love God, and are fmcerely willing to obey his will, and to know it that they may obey it, fuch are of the true Religion and fhall be faved, and that popery which denyeth their falvation is falfe ?

E 3 P. If

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1\ If your falfc fuppofition were true, thefe falfe/ conftquents would be true : But you are all deceived when you think that you fincerely Love God, and are willing to know and do his will.

R> i. Let all Protectants note this firft, that you grant that none but 3$* faljhearted Hypocrites, that are not what they profefs to be, and Love not God, nor would cbey him , fhould turn Papifts.

2. And if a man cannot know his own A4indand\Vill, what he Lovethznd what he is willing of, no not about his End and great eft concernments, how can he know when he Believeth aright ? Why do you trouble the World thus with your noife about Believing the Propofals of your Church, if a man cannot know whether he believe or not f i$> And he that cannot know what he Willeth , Choofeth or Loveth, can no more know what he believeth. For the Atts of the Will are more plenary and eafily perceived. And do all Papifts know their own Hearts or Minds, but no Proteftants ? What would youexpeci but indignation andderifion by fuch arguing as this, if you will go about the world and tell men, £ Ton none of you know your own Minds and wills, but we know them ^ Tou think )'°u Love God, and are Willing to obey him j but you are all miftakgn^ it it not fo with you: but you muft believe our Pope and his Council, and then you way ktww your own minds and hearts!^ They that believe you on thefe rates, de-ferve the deceit of believing you \ and punifli them-felves.

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The thirteenth Principle. That when fori ft deferibed all the Effence of Chriftianity, by our Believing in and being baptised into, the name of the Father y the Son and the Holy Ghofl y the Apo files and firfl Paftors of the Churches, in fir tilled people to underfiand the meaning of thefe three Articles -, *And the ancient Creed called the Apoftles, is the expofhron of them, as to Belief: And that this Creed was of old the fymbolof the true faith, by which men were fnfpofed fufficienxly qualified for baptifm, and diftinguifiwd from Here-ticks: which after was enlarged by occafwn of here-fas to tVe fflictne aha fonft'antinopolitarte Qreed ; To which that call d A than alius'.* was added as a fuller explication of the doctrine of the Trinity : And he that believed all thefe, was taken for one of the true Chriftian Religion, which was fuffcient in fuo genere to falvation*

P. All that was then Neceffary to be explicitely believed, neceffitate medii, was exprefTed in the Creeds ( if not more ) : But not all that is now neceffary when the Church hath propofed more.

R, i. Some of you fay., no more is neceflary ut medium, but to believe that God is, and that he is a reward-er of them that diligently feek^him : Others fay that the chief articles of the Creed alfo are commonly neceffary : And in your difcord we lay no great weight on your Opinions. 2, But is not Chriflianity the fame Thing now as it was at the beginning ? Is Baptifm altered ? Hath not a foriftian now the fame definition as then ? Are not thrifts promifes and the Conditions theTame ? Shall not he that was a Chriftian then, be

E 4 faved

faved if he were now alive ? May not we be Qiriftians, and faved by the fame (fonflitutive faufes which made rnen Qhriflians, and faved them in the primitive (fhur-ches ? Subvert not Chriftianity, and confound not the Church, and cheat not poor fouls, by labouring to hide the ejjence of (hrifliamty, and fuch plain important truths. You cannot deny our faith to be true , without condemning the ancient Church and Chriftianity it felf: While we aloud profefs that the Chriflian faith ex-plained in all the ancient Creeds, is the faith which we own, in its EfTentials explicated.

The fourteenth Principle. That the Books which the Proteftants commonly receive as Canonical Scriptures, are in the agt eeing Original Copies, as to the very Words, and in true Tranfations at to the fence , the mofl true Infallible word of God,

R. I grant that where the Copies difagree by various Readings, we are no more fure that any of them is the word of God, than we are fure, that fuch a Copy is righter than all that differ from it. But as long as the efftnee of Chriflianity on which our Salvation is laid, is in the Covenant of Grace, explained in Crcdendis in the [reed, and in Petendus, in the Lords Prayer, snd in Agendis in the Decalogue as explained by Chrifl. And no one Duty or material do&rine of our Religion dependethon the various Lettions, but thofe texts that Agree are fufficient to eftablifh them all ^ yea, as Franc. /? SanEla- Clara fyflem. fid, proferTeth, the ordinary Tranfia'ions fo agree, as that no material point of Religion doth depend on any of their differences •, It is as much as we affert, t v at the Agreeing Original Copies r

and

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and the found Tranflations, fo far as they are fuch, are the True Infallible word of God • the former both as to words and fence, and the later as to fence alone. Do you not grant this ?

P. We grant the Scripture as you fay to be Gods Infallible word ^ But i. You cannot know it to be fo, becaufe you take it not on the Roman Churches Authoritative Propofal ^ 2. And you leave out part of it.

R. i. Whether we can know it, (hall be tryed in due place. 2. And whether we have All of it, or enough, is another queftion, to be debated when you will. You grant us exprefly that which we now defire ^ which is the Infallible Truth of our Canonical Scripture. And this is All our Religion, containing not only the EJfenti-als, but all the Integrals, and Accidentals needful to be recorded. So that All the Protefiants Religion is con-fejfedto be Infallibly True.

And from hence further note, that in all our difputes, you are obliged to be the defendants, as to Truth: For we deny the Truth of much of your Religion, but you deny not the Truth of one word of ours : but only the Plenitude or Sufficiency.

P. The name of a Proteftant was never known till Luthers time : And the occaflon of it was a particular Proteftation of the German Princes, and not dire&Iy a Vrotefling againft Ropery.

R. It is not Names but Religion which we difpute of. And it is that which each party Profejfeth to be their Religion* Therefore you muft take our Profejfion or you change the fubjcclof the difpute. And we frofcfi, that the Law of Nature ( which no fober man quefti-oneth ) and the Scriptures,zxt All our Religion. Therefore if you pleafe you fhall fuppofe that the name Pro-teflantwerz not now in the world : It doth not fignific our Religion. But we now ufe it to fignihe our Protcft-

(53) ing dgahtft Popery) or that we agree in fubftance^ and iii rejecting Popery, with thofe that made that particular Proteftation mentioned by you.

Names are oft given from accidents j as Africans , GcrmanicM, Britannictu, &c. to feveral Roman Captains • when yet their Humanity was the fame before they were fonamtd.

P. Turks, Socinians, Quakers, crc Protcft againfl: Popery : It feems then they are Protectants too • and your companions.

R, i. Thus fome men ftudy to deceive, by turning from the queftion to another. Ourqueftion I tell you is Whether the Religion of the Proteftants be Infallible * and not, Whence is their name ? 2. But by a Proufvani we mean only one that taketh the Scripture for the Rule, and foriflianity for the Ejfence of his Religion : Which no one doth that denyeth any effential part of ir. If we do fo, prove it, and you ihall have our anfwer. How da you judge of any man among your felves that taketh Gods word propofed by your Church for his Religion, and yet miftaketh the Church in any point: As Burandm that thought the matter of Bread continues, whom Be liar mine yet denyeth to be an Heretic k. So is it with anv among us that miftake the fence of Scripture in fome fuch poim.

When a Name is put upon any pcrfon or party from a common accident, you may if you will call all by that name which that accident agreeth to : And fo Pafifts are called by fome Non-conformifts now in England, becaufe they Conform not; But the world knoweth well enough that it is Proteftants which are commonly meant by that ~*me, and not Papifts, Quakers S\ckers, orr- though

fe conform not. And fo vou may fay if it pleafe

r felf that Turks, Jews, Hcaihens, Socinians, Qua-

>, Ranters, are Proteftants^ becaufe they Prctcft

againfi^or reject Popery : But the world knoweth who is meant by the Name, JLvenfcbriftians rejctling proper Popery,

And for my part, I deal openly with you, I care not if the name Proteftantwerz utterly call: aiide • If any man be fo deceived by it as i, Either to think that it flgnifieth the Efiexce of our Religion ( unlefs you mean as we Protejl for Chriftianity.) 2. Or that we take thofe called Proteftants for the whole Catholick^Charch, they make it an occafion of their own deceit: Names of di-ftin&ion are ufed, becaufe men know not elfe readily how to fpeak intelligibly of one another without circumlocutions : And then cometh the Sectarian, and taketh his Party, for all the Church (at fealt which he may lawfully Communicate with), and the name of his party to notifie his Religion, And then comes the crafty Pa-pift, and pretends from hence that fuch a named Religion is new • and asketh you, where was there any fe. g.) Proteftants before Luther ?

My Religion is naked Chriftianity, the fame as is where the name of a Proteftam is not known, and as was before it was known ^ and as if the name of the Pope had never been known. But now the Pope and his Monarchical Vfurpation over all the world, are rifen and known, I am one of thofe that proteft againft them, as being againft Chriftianity which is my Religion 5 But fo as to addict my felf to the opinions of no man or party that oppofeth them, wholly and abfolutely and beyond evidence of truth : I take the Reformed Churches, to be the foundeft in the world : But I take their Conferli-ons to be all the Imperfect expreflions of men •, and the Writings of Proteftant Divines to be fome more clear and found, and fome more dark, empty, and lefs found, and in many things I differ from many of them. Choofe now whether you will call me a Proteftant or not ^ I

tell

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tell you my Religkn , which is firnple Chrifliamty : Names are at your own Will. I could almoft wifh that there were no name known befides that of CHRISTIAN as notifying our faith and Religion^ in the Chriftian world ("Though as notifying Herejie and fin y there muft be proper names , as in Rev. the name Nicolaitans is ufed ). Even the word Catholic!^ had long a narrower fenfe in the Empire with many than I now own it in. Though as it fignifieth One that is of the Church Vniverfal, loveth Vniverfalty all true ChriftianSy and hath Communion with them in Faith, Love, and Hope, fo I like it, and am A CATHO-LICK CHRIST IA N. I difpute for nothing elfe ^ I perfwade this perfon here in Doubt, to nothing elfe-, but i.To hold fail to true and meer Chrifti-anity^ 2. To Reject all in Popery or any other Sed that is Evidently again ft it j 3. To fufpend his belief of all thats doubtful*, and to receive nothing as a part of Divine faith or Religion-, till he be fure that indeed it is of God.

And now thefe Principles being fuppofed, let us proceed, and try whether Popery be of God or not.

PART,

(«)

PART III.

The (prrteftants (Reafons againjl Popery.

D. "y Have heard what you have faid in ftating the Protefiants Religion : I now exped: to hear what Reafons yon have againfl that which yon call Popery : And afterwards that you prove all that you charge upon it. But I adjure you firft that you fay nothing but what you believe in your conference to be the truth, as one that looketh to be judged for it.

R. With many Papifts confident and vehement pro-teftations go inftead of Arguments, and we oft hear them fay, |~ If this be not true, I am content to be torn in a thoufand pieces : We will feal it with our blood: We will lay . our falvation on it : And do yon think* we have not fouls to fave ? &c.~] k Which is much like as if they would end all Controversies by lay~ ing Wagers that they are in the right, o* by protefting that they are honefier and credibler men than their adversaries : And it is no more than a Quaker or other fuch Se&ary will fay: the moft proud and ignorant being ufually the moft confident: But yet though I exped not that you fhould receive any thing from me, upon Protefiations, but upon Proofs, I will here pro-mife you that I will charge nothing on the Papifts, but what in my Confcience I am verily perfwaded to be srue.

The

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The Reafon.s which refolve me againft Popery are thefe andfuch like.

I. Reafon, Their Doctrine of Tranfubftantiation is fo notorioufy falfe and inhumane, even contrary to the fuijeft afcertaining evidence that mankind can exped en earth, ( viz.. for all men on pain of damnation to believe, that there is no Bread, and no Wine, when all the founded: fenfes of any men in the world, do perceive Bread and Wine, by feeing it , tafling it, feeling it, fmellmg it, and by the notorious ejfetls ; and all this built upon no Revelation of God, no Reafon at all, nor any true confent of the Primitive Church , but clean contrary to them all ; ) that I iblemnly profefs, that I find if an utter Impojfibility to believe it : And it often puts me to a doubt, Whether it be poffible for any mortal man unfeignedly and fully to believe it, and Whether there be really any fuch Papift in the world I or Whether moft do not for carnal refpe&s take on them to believe it, when they do not •, or rather the Vulgar underftand their words, as not really excluding the true being of Bread and Wme ^ and the reft only fomewhat overawing their own reafon with a reverence of their Church, fo far as not to contradict, or fo far as nationally to own it, when they do not from the heart believe the thing.

So many contradictions, abfurdities, and impieties are to be by them believed with it, that I am furenoman that underftandeth them, canpollibly believe them all.

And all this muft be done by Miracles, fupendious miracles, daily or common miracles , which every Prufl can do a. his plcafure, and never fail , fober or drunken, greater than raifing a man from the dead $ fo

that

that every beaftly, fordid, ignorant Prieft, (hall do more miracles by far, than ever Jefus Chrift did in all his life on earth, as far as ive know by the holy Records, ( if he live as long J). He that can believe all this,may next believe, that there is neither Earth under his feet, nor the Firmament over his head, nor Water, nor Air, nor any other Creature, and that he hath no being himfelf.

11. Reafon: The Faith or Religion of the Papifts, as defcribed by themfelves, is fo far from Infallibility, as that it is utterly uncertain, unintelligible, and meer contradiction and confulion » 'and a changeable thing j fo that no man knoweth whether he have it or not, and whether he have it all •, But whoever hath it, he hath certainly a hodge-podge of truth and falihood.

III. Reafon. Their Papacy, which efTcntiateth their Church, is a horrid Ufurpation of Chrifts own Prerogative, and of an Office to do that which is incompa-parably above the Natural Power or Capacity of any mortal man •, even to be the Apoftle and Governour of the whole world ( of Chriftians at leaft ) • To take Charge of all the fouls on earth . to teach and call thofe that are uncalled, and to Rule thofe that are baptized ': even at the Antipodes, and in all thofe unknown or in-accefTible parts of the world, which he hath no knowledge of: A far more arrogant undertaking, than to be the Civil Monarch of ail the earth ; and utterly im-poflible for him to perform, and which never was performed by him.

(H)

I V. Reafon. The faid Papacy is an arrogant U-furpation of the Power of all the Chriftian Princes and Pallors upon earth, or of a Power over them, never given by Chrift : It fetteth up a Kingdom in a Kingdom, and taketh from Paftors the power which Chrift gave them, over their particular flocks.

V. Reafon. The faid Papacy is a meer humane Ihfti-tution : They confefs themfelves , that it is not of Divine faith that the Bifhop of Rome is Sr. Peters Sue-ceilbr by Divine Right: It is no article of their own faith : But Hiftory fully afTureth us, that it was but in the Roman Empire, that the Roman Bifhop was made Supream : as the Archbifhop of Canterbury is in En-gland : And that he ftandeth on the fame humane foundation as the other four Patriarchs of the Empire did. And that their General Councils were called by the Em± ferours y and were called General only with refped to that Empire. And there never was fuch a thing as a General Council of all the Chriftian world, nor ever can be : And that there never was fuch, is mod notorious yet by the Names fubferibed to all the Councils. But they abufe the world, and claim that power over all the Chriftians on earth , which one Prince gave his fubjed-Prelates in his Empire : As if the General Af fembly of Scotland or France fhould pretend to be a General Council of the world y and the Archbifhop o£ Canterbury fhould call himfelf Archbifhop of all the Church on earth, and claim the government of it.

VI.

f*5)

V I. Reafon: The faid Papacy hold their claim of Sttpream Government as by Gods anointment ( though they confefs as before faid, that it is not de fide^ that the Poue fucceedeth Peter by Divine right ) and this notoriously Contrary to the Judgement and Tradition of the far greateft fart of the Churches in the world: General Councils ( fuch as they had ) and the fenfe of the greateft part of Chriftians have determined againft the Papal claime. And Tradition condemneth them to this day, while they plead Tradition,

VII; Reafon : It is Treafon againft Chrift for the Papifts who are but a Seci^ and not the third part of the Chriftians in the world , to call themfelves the whole (hurch^ and unchurch all the reft, and feek to rob Chrift of the far greateft part of his Kingdom, by denying them to be fuch: As if they would deny two third parts of this Kingdom to be the Kings. They are Sectaries and Schifmaticks by this arrogant dividing from all the reft, and appropriating the name and pri-viled^es of the Church to themfelves alone.

VIII. Reafon: By making an unlawful and 1m-poffible Condition and Center of Church Vnion y they are the greateft Schifmaticks in all the world : The great-eft Dividers of the Church upon pretence ofVnity: As he would be a divider of this Kingdom, who would fet up a Vice-King without the Kings authority, and fay that none that fubjeft not themfelves to him, fhall be taken for fubje&s of the JCing.

IX. Reafon; They ftudioufly brand themfelves with Satansmark of malice, or uncharitablene fs and cruelty to mens fouls: while they fentence to damnation two third parts of the Chriflian world, becaufe they will not be the fubje&s of their Pope: And they think their way to Heaven is fafeft, becaufe they are bolder than us in damning other Chriftians : Whereas Love is the mark by which Chrifts Difciples mull be known to all.

X. Reafon: They are inhumanely cruel to mens ho-dies : And this is their very Religion : For the Council at the Laterane under Innocent the third decreed, that thofe that believe not, or deny Tranfubftantiation are Hereticks, and all Temporal Lords {hall exterminate them from their Dominions : That is, no man fhall be fuffered to live under any Christian Lord, that will not renounce all his fenfes, and profefs that he believeth that they are all deceived by God himfelf •, which is not only to renounce their Humanity, but their Animality or fenfe it felf. So that no men indeed, are to be fuffered to live, but only fuch as deny themfelves to be men: What Heathens, what Turks, did ever exerdfe fuch Inhumane fury ? Beiides their burning and tormenting men as Hereticks that will not do all this and more, and will not fay as they require them.

X I. Reafon : Their Church indeed is invifble , while they deny ii , and an unknown thing : For, I. Men are forced into it by fuch bloody Laws, as that they cannot rationally be known to be Corfentcrs:

,2. Ana tney nave no certain faith to constitute a Church-member : For they hold that his obligation to believe, is according to his inward and outward means, of which no man can pofiibly judge c . And fo no man can know whether himfelf or another have that faith which is required as necetfary to falvarion. And many of them fay, That they that believe not in Chrifi, have fiving faiths and are in the Church, if they had not fufficient means.

X 11. Re afon t The Papacy doth intolerably tyrannize over Kings, and teach fuch Do&rines of Perjury and Rebellion, as their very Religion, as is not in the pra&ice of it to be endured in any Kingdom - nor dare they fully practife it: The Crowns and Lives of Princes being at the mercy of the Pope h As the faid Later one Council fhewetfu

XIII. Reafon: Their Qiurch is oft EJfentially unholy, heretical and wicked, becaufe the Pope is often fa, who is an EJfential part of it • And therefore it is not the holy CatholickjChurch. General Councils have upon examination judged their Popes to be Hereticks, Schifmaticks, Adulterer s> Murderers, Simonifls , yea, guilty of Blafphcmy or Infidelity it felf. And the Church cannot be Holy , whofe EJfential part is fo unholy*

XIV. Reafont Their Churches fuccejfwn is fo no-torioufly interrupted, and their Papacy fo often altered in its caufes, as that it is become a confounded and sl m^v uncertain thing. So many notorious or judged

F z He-

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Hereticks,Simqnifts, Murderers, Sodomites, Adulterers have poflefTed the Seat, who were therefore Hncapable y that the line of iucceflion mull needs be interrupted by them. And fo many wayes have they been made or elected, fometimes by the people, fometimes by the City-Presbyters, fometimes by Emperours, fometimes by Cardinals, fometimes by Councils, that if any one way of Election be necefTary, they have loft their Papacy long ago. If no one way be necefTary , then the Turk may make a Pope.

X V. Reafon : Their Church called One, is really two in fpccie » one Headed by a Pope , and another by ^General Qrnncil : For while the Head or Supream Ruler is an Ejfential part, and one part of the. people own one Head and another part-own another Head , ( as they do ) the Churches thus conftituted cannot be One.

And alfo de individuo there have been long two or three Popes at once, and confequently two or three Churches; And to this day none knoweth which was the right.

XVI. Reafon: They plead for a Church which never had a being in the world j that is, All Chriftians Headed by one Pope y When all the Chriftian world did never take hirn for their Head, nor were governed

by him to this day.

XVII. Reafon: They dreadfully injure the holy Scriptures, as if jefta Cbrift, and all the Prophets and Applies \r\ all thofe Sacred Record;, had not had skjU

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Dr will to fpeak intelligibly, and plainly to deliver h$ :he do&rines neceffary to falvation : But they make :heir Voluminous Councils more intelligible and fuffici-mt - as if they had done better than Chrift and his Apoftles : And when men muft only Difcern Gods Laws, and fudge Caufes by the Law, they make them-felves Judges of the Law it felf, that is, of God the Judge of all, and of that Law by which they muft be judged.

XVIII. Reafin ; There is no other Se& of Chriflians under Heaven which hath fo many differences among themfelves, or have written fo many Books againft one another as the Papifts: And though many of them are of great importance, yea, fome are about the very Ef-fence or ConftitutiveHead of their Church,yet have they no handfomer way to palliate all by, than by faying that thefe are but Opinions, and no Articles of faith, and the Infallible Judge dare not decide them : No though it be diverdy of Expofitions of Gods own Word, yet Commentators ftill differ without any hope of a deci-flon, as if Gods Word were not to be believed, but were only the matter of uncertain Opinion , till the Pope and Council have expounded it, and no more Scripture is de fide than they expound.

XIX. Reafon: Perjury is made the very Character of their Church, or the brand by which it is ftigma-tized •, As is vifible i,In the Trw 04th impofed on their Clergy , which whoever taketh he is immediately perjured : and 2. By their difobliging men from Oaths and Vpws 5 even the Subjects of Princes from their Oaths of Alkgiancc , whenever the Pope (hall excom-

F 5 raunicatc

(10)

municatc them, and give their Dominions to others, as is decreed 'Qtncil. Later, fub Innoc. 3. Can. 3,

XX. Re*fon\ They are guilty of Idolatry in their ordinary Worfhip by the Mafs : while they worfhip Bread as their Lord God: Nor will it juftifie them to fay, that if they thought it to be Bread, they would not worfhip it : Any more than it would juftifie Julian to fay, that he would not worfhip the Sun, if he thought not that it was God : And they confefs, that if it prove to be ftill Bread, their Worfhip will prove Idolatry: and we defire no other proof.

AnH I am not able to juftifie their fending God his Worfhip by aCrofs, Crucifix, or other Image, as a medium cult urn, from being a grofs Violation of the fe-cond Commandment: ( which they leave out ).

X X I. Reafon: Their Religion greatly tendeth to Mortify Chriftianity, and turn it into a dead Image , by de/lroyingmuch of its life and power: 1, By befriending Ignorance, and hiding the holy Scripture, forbidding all the people to read them in a known tongue without a fpecial Iicenfe : blafpheming Gods Word, as if fo read, it had more tendency or likelihood to hurt men than to profit them, to damn them than to fave them ; when they will fay otherwife of all their own Vulgar poftils and fuch like writings.

2. And by teaching the people a blind devotion, viz.. to pray in an unknown tongue, and to worfhip God by words not undcrfiood*

3. And by making up a Religion much, if not far mofi, of external formalities^ and a multitude of ccre-monicsy and the opus opcratum of their various Sacra-

ments

T7U

> merits ^ As if God delighted in fuch adions as befit not the acceptance of a grave and fober man ; or as if Guilt and Sin would be wiped off , and charmed away into virtue andholinefs, by fuch corporeal motions, fhews and words.

XXII. Reafon: Their Religion, though it thus tend to gratifie the ungodly by deceitful remedies and hopes, yet is very uncomfortable to the godly. For, I. By it no man can know that he is a true believer, and not a child of Hell, ( much lefs that he lhall be faved: ) For they teach that no Divine can tell them what Articles are necelTary to be believed to falvation : But they muft be fo many as are fuited to every ones capacity, and means, during his life. And no man living can know that he underftandethand believeth as much as his capacity and means were in their kind fuf-ficient to: Nay, there is no man that hath not been culpably ignorant of fomewhat which he might have known.

2. Mens. Sacramental receptions and comforts depend on the Intention of the Prieft, which no man knoweth.

3-Almoft all Godly men muft expect the fire of Purgatory: and confequently none of them can be rationally willing to dye : Becaufe this life is better than Purgatory 3 and no man will defire to go from hence into the fire : And fo by making all men unwilling to dye, it deftroyeth a heavenly mind, and killeth faith, and hope, and love, and holy joy, and tcmpteth men to be worldlings, and to love this life better than the next. Yea, it tempteth men to be afraid of Martyrdom, left (dying in Venial fins, as all do) they go to a Purgatory fire ? more terrible than Martyrdom.

XXIII. Rcafon : Their Do&rine is not only contrary to many exprefs Texcs of Holy Scripture, but alfo contrary to it felf : One P,>pe and one Council having decreed one thing , and ano:hcr the clean

contrary.

XXIV. Re/tfon : All this evil is made more pernicious, by that profeflfed Impenitence which is included in the conceit of their Churches Infallibility : For they that hold themfejves Infallible, do profefs never to Repent, pf any thing in which they fuppofe themfelves to be h. And as Repentance is the great evidence of the pardon of fin •, fo Impenitency is that mortal fign of an unpardoned foul, without which no fin doth qualifie the fmner to be Excommunicated by man, or damned by God .• And a fin materially lefs^ is more Mortal un-refemed of, than a greater truly lamented and for-faken.

X X V. Reafon: Every honeft godly Proteftant may b: asfure tha: Popery is falfe, as he is that he is him-{df fincere, and Loveth God, and is truly willing to obey him. And no man can turn Papift, without felf-contradi&ion, who is a true Chriftian, and an honeft man : For by turning Papift he confeffeth himfelf to be before a falfe-hearted hypocrite, who neither Loved God, norfincerely defired to obey him, nor was true to his Baptifmal Covenant. For it is a part of Popery to believe that none are in a ftate of falvation , but the Sub-jelh of the Pope, or members of the Papal Church : And confequently that no others have true Faith, Repentance

(73) penrance or Love to God: Or elfe that God is falfe in promiflng falvation , to all that have true Faith, Repentance and Love to God. All therefore that know their own hearts to be truly devoted to God, are fafe from Popery • And feeing it is agreed on both fides, that none can or ought to turn Papifts but ungodly hypocrites ( or Knaves ) no wonder if fuch are deluded by the mod palpable deceits, and forfaken of God whom they perfidioufly forfook.

I will name you no more : If I make thefe, or any one of thefe good ( as I undertake to prove them all ), you will fee that I refufe not my felf to be a Papift without fufficient caufe,

And yet by this charge you will fee that I am none of their extream adverfaries : I pafs by abundance of Doctrinal differences, wherein by many they are mod deeply charged : Not as Juftifying them againft all or moft fo charged on them , but i. As giving you thofe Reafons which moft move my felf ', and which I am moft able to make good, and leaving every one to his proper work : 2. And as one that have certainly found oat, that in many dotlrinals feeming to be the matter of our wideft difference, we are thought: by many to differ much more than we do ^ 1. The difference lying moft in Words, and Logical Notion j, and various wayes of mens exprefling their conceptions : 2. Andtheani-mofity of men engaged in Parties and Intercfts againft each other, caullng moft to take ail in the worft fenfe, and to make each other feem far more erroneous than they are, and to turn differing names into da?nnable herefies: And 3. Few men having Will and Skill to ftate controverfies aright, and cut off miftaken feeming differences : 4. And few having bonefty and felf-deny at

enough.

(74) enough to incurr the cenfure of the ignorant Zealots of their own party, by feeming but impartial and juft to their advcrfaries.

I mean in fuch points, as i. The Nature of Divine faith, Whether it be a perfwafion that I am pardoned, &c. 2. Of Certainty of falvation, 3. And Certainty of perfeverance, 4. Of San&ification, 5. Of Juftifica-tion, 6. Of Good works, 7. Of Merit, 8, Of Predefti-nation, 9. Of Providence and the Caufe of Sin : 10. Of Free-will, 11. Of Grace, 12. Of Imputation ofRigh-rcoufncfs, 13. Of Univerfal Redemption, 14. Of Original Sin, and divers others: In all which I cannot juftifie them, but am fure that the difference is made commonly to feem to be that which indeed it is not: In the true impartial ftating whereof Lad. Le Blanch^ hath begun to do the Chriftian Churches moil excellent fervice, worthy our great thanks, and his bearing all the Cenfures of the ignorant.

PART

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PART IV.

The Firfi Charge made good againjl Tranfub* Jlantiation: In which Topery is proyed to be the Shame of Humane Nature i Con* trary to SEHSB , ^EJSON, SC^IfTH^E and T^JVh TION, or the judgement of the Antient and frefent Church ; devijed by Satan to expoje Qhrijltanity to the Scorn of Infidels.

CHAP. I.

The Fir ft Reafon to prove Tranfubftantiation falfe.

R. fT^He Papifts Belief ofTranfubftantiation

is, that There is a change made of the

I whole fubftance of the Bread into the

JL body ofChriftj and of the whole fub-

fiance of Wine into his blood. Their opinion ( caUed

their faith ) hath two parts: The firft is, thitThere is

no more true Proper Bread and Wine after the words

ofConfecration, Hoc eft Corpus meum. The fecond is,

that There is the true proper Flejh and Blood of Jefus

Chrift, under the fpecies ( as they call them) of

Bread and Wine*

It is the firftthat I fhall now prove falfe: And you muft not forget the ftate of Aqain. p. 3.^75. a. 5. ad 3. F*fo the Queftion, which is not, ntntjteontrsjerfum.fedejtde* whether Chrifts Body and aiauodfenfus nsn&mngtt. But f , t J ~> J

doth not fenfe fay, Here is Bread Blood VC prefent ? But Whc-

**T!\*l ther there remain any Bread

and Wine ? Arg. I. If there remains Bread and Wine after the Confecration, then all the fenfes of all the found men in the world are deceived, or all mens perception of thefe fenfible things deceived, though there be due magnitude, fite, diftance of the objed, a due abode, and a due medium and no depravation of the fenfe or intelled. But this Confequcnt is notoriously falfe, (as fhall be proved ) Therefore Popery is falfe.

■ i.That all mens fenfes perceive Bread and Wine , or all mens Intellects by their fenfes ) will not bedenyed. Not only Prottftants, but Greekj, Mahometans, Heathens, Papifts, all perfons perception by fenfe is here the fame: Therefore it is found fenfes or elfe there are ?wne found in the world.

2. It is not one fenfe, but all. The eye fceth Bread and Wine ; The hanft and mouth feel it . The palate tajleth it j The fmclling fenfe fmlkihmt Wine -, yea, and the ear hearethit poured out,

3. It is in due quantity, and not an undifcernable jit 0 me.

4. It is near the fenfe, and neither by too much diftance or nearnefs made infenfible.

5. It hath a due abode, and is not made infenfible by hafly pafwg by.

6. The air, and light, and all neceffary media of perception are prefent. So that there is nothing wanting to the fenfbility of the objed.

P, And

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P. And how do you prove all or any of thefe ? For ought you know, the media may be undue ^ the magnitude, fite, diftance, abode, may hot be what they feem to be j and Co you prove not what you fay.

K. All that I am now faying, is, that *All men of found fenfe, in the world have thefe immediate clear perceptions: The InteHcB by fenfe perceiveth the object as quantitative, as near^ &c. This you dare not deny: So that if this perception be falfe, and here be no Bread and Wine, then Senfe or the Intellect difcerning by the means of fenfe, is deceived.

P. I fay that the Senfescr Intellects perception are deceived.

R. I prove that they are not deceived ; or at lead, that this kind of perception is the moft certain that man on earth is capable of, and is to be trufted to by all men, and disbelieved or contradicted by none.

Reafon I. Becaufe that humane nature is fo formed, that the Intellect hath no other way of perceiving things fenfible , but as they are firft perceived by the fenfe, and by it tranfmitted to the Intellecl ( or made its objects ) : And if about Spirits k hold not, that There is nothing in the lntitlell y which was not firft in the fenfe : yet about things fenfible, it doth undenyably hold : And alfo that the Jntellecl of it felf is not free to perceive things fenfible otherwife than as they are fenfed, or not to perceive them •, but is naturally necejfitated to perceive them. So that it is a contradi&ion for a man to be a man, confifting of a reafonable foul, with fen-fitive faculties and a body, and yet not to be formed to judge of things fenfible as fenfe perceiveth them.

P. Then mad men ceafe to be men , if they judge otherwife.

R. Mad men are your fitted presidents : But, t. I told you how mans nature is imie by God to judge of

things;

things: I told you not that this nature may not be vitiated, and hindered from right aftion. Did I ever fay, that the eye may not bt blinded, or the underftand-ing diftraeted ? Blind men and mad men judge not according to the tendency of Nature, and therefore mif-judge. The Connexion of the Intellect to the fenfe is efTential to man as man •, but fo is not the foundnefs or right exercifeof his faculties,

Reafon I1. Hence I argue, that fenfation and the under landings perception thereby, is the fir ft perception of maiio foul, and all that follow are but the rational improvements of it, and therefore ever prefuppofe it: The natural order of the fouls apprehenfions is this, beyond all controverfie. Firft Senfe perceiveth things fenfwle, and the Imagination the Images of them. Next the Vnderftandmg by zfimple perception conceiv-cth of them as it findeth them in the imagination. Thirdly, then by this Thinking or Knowing, we perceive alfo our own Aft, that we do foThinl^ or Know. And then Fourthly, We compound our conceptions, and form organical notions, and fpin out conclufions from what we firft perceive. Now if the fir ft perceptions be uncertain or falfe, it mud needs follow , that all thofe following thoughts, and reafonings which do but improve them , are at leaft as uncertain and falfe, if not more. So that there can be no more cercainty in any of the Conclufions as fuch , than there is in the premifes and principles. Therefore if mans firft and mo ft natural necejfary perceptions arc falfe, all the following aftions or reafonings of his mind mud be no better. All being finally refolved into thefe perceptions hy fenfe, there is no Truih or Certainty in mans mind at all, if there be none in thefe.

<7p;

Reafon 111. Elfc you would infer, that God is not at all to be Believed^ and that there is no fuch thing as Divine Faith and Religion in Certainty in the world : And fo you would bring in, by unavoidable confe-quence, far worfe Impiety , and Jrreligioufnefs than Mahomet or Julian, or any Idolaters that I hear of on the earth. For you dire&ly will overthrow the Divine Veracity , or Truth of Gods Revelations , which is the Formal Objett of Faith, without which, it is no Faith.

P. A heavy charge, if you can make it good.

R. To make it good, do but firft obferve, i. That Gods Ejfential Will or mind is not in it [elf immediately feen by man ♦, but known only by fome Revelation.

2. That this Revelation is nothing but fome SIGNES: For there is nothing in the Univerfe of Beings, but GOD and CREATURES and the ACTS or Works of Creatures. Now it is not Gods oven Ejfence which is the Revelation in queftion. Therefore it muft be either A Creature ( or work of God J , or an Att or Work, of a Creature. As the voice on Mount Sinai, and that of Chrift at his baptifm and transfiguration, and the written Tables of Stone, &e. were either the works of God immediately, and fo created Signs of his mind ; or elfe the Atts of Angels, and fo Imperate Signs of his mind. Nor it is. not the or dinar inefs or extraordina-rinefs of the way of making thefe figns, which maketh them currant and true,or credible: For if God can make a Natural falfe fign, he can make a fupematuralfalfe one, for ought any mojtal man can prove. Only all the queftion is, Whether it be indeed a fign of the mind and will of God or not . ? Now the works of Nature are Gods Natural Signs, and his Natural objective Light and Law-, as the perception of them is the Sub-

jeftive

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jetlive or Active Light and Law of Nature i Something of God, thefe Natural figns do fignifie or reveal plainly, and feme things darkly : And fo it is with fiu-pernatural figns -, As the written Tables, the voice of an Angel, the words of an infpired Prophet or ./4/w-yr/<?, e£*<r. Now there is no other way for God to fpeak or reveal falfly, could he do it, but i. Either to make a falfie fign, naturally or fupernaturally, or 2. To determine mans fienfie or mind to a falfe perception. And if God can do this naturally , why not fiupernaturally f

Nay, a fortiore mark how you teach the Infidel to inferr? 1. Gods Natural Revelations are Common, and his fiuper natural rare. 2. Gods Natural Revelations art moft certainly his own Alls: But how far a Voice or Book, frum a Spirit, may be the Act. of that Spirit or Angel as a free Agent, and how far that Agent is fallible v. r defectible, we could not tell, if we had not farther Evidence of Gods owning it. Therefore if you make Gods own ordinary Natural Revelations or fignifications to be falfe, how will you be able to difprove the Infidel about the reft? 3. And then note, that our Cafe is yet lower and plainer than all this : For if the very Being of the Creatures, which is the Matter of thefe Signs be uncertain to us, and all our fenfes and minds deceived about it ; then we have no place for enquiry, Whether this Creature be any fign of the mind of God. As if the hearing of all men was deceived, that thought they heard that voice, [ This is my Beloved Son ~\ or Pauls, that thought he heard Chrift fpeak to hkn [ Saul, Saul, &c. ] or if their Eyes and Intellects were deceived, that thought they fiaw Chrifiv and his miracles -, or that think now that they read the Bible, and indeed there be nofuch thing as a Bible, no fuch words, &c . then there is no room to enquire what

they

■(■Si;

ihzyfignifie: For nothing hath no ftgnification. Truth and Gojdnefs are affections or modes of Being.- And if | we cannot by all our found fenfes know the Being of things, we can much lefs know that they are True or Good. Therefore all knowledge, and all faith, and all Religion is overthrown by your denyal of the truth of our Senfes and Intellects perception of things fenfible.

Reafon IV. And by this means you are not capable

of being diluted with, nor any Controverfie between

you and any others in the world, of being decided,

! while you deny fenfe. For then you agree not with

mankind in any one common principle. And they that

agree in nothing, can difpute of nothing. For this is

the firft principle : Eftvel non eft is firft to be agreed

\ on, before we can difpute any farther of a fubftance.

i What will you do to confute an adverfary, but drive

him to deny a certain principle ? And can you drive

him to deny a lower fundamental Principle, than the

Being of a fubftance perceived by fenfe, yea, by all the

found fenfes of all men in the world ?

Reafn V. Yea, it is ipecially to be noted, that our difference is not only about the fpecies of a fenfible fubftance, but about the very fubftance it feIfin genere\ Whether all our fenfes perceive any fubftance at all, or nor. Suppofe the question were, Whether it be water or not, which all mens fenfes fee in Rivers ? If a Pa-pill would deny it tobew^r, doubtlefs hedenyed the agreeing judgement of all mens Intellect by fenfe. But if hefhouldalfo fay, It is no fubftance, which we call water or earth, This were to deny the firft Principle, and moft fundamental perception in nature. . Now that this is your cafe , is undenyable. For, i. You profefs, that Qorifts Body arid Blood are not fenfible there •, That it is not the quantity, Jhape, nuw-

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her, colour, fmell, weight, &c. of Chrifls Body and 2?/<W which we perceive, and that thefe Accidents are not the Accidents of Chrifr. 2. And you believe that the Bread and Wine is gone, that is, changed into the body and blood of Chrift ^ fo that no part of their fub-fiance, matter or form is left. And you put no third fubftance under thefe Accidents in the (lead. So that you maintain, that it is the quantity of nothing, the figure of nothing, the colour, the weight, thtfeituation, the fmell, the number, eye. of nothing, which all mens Intellects by fenfe perceive. So that the Controverfie is, Whether it be any fubftance at all which by thofe accidents we perceive ? And when we fee, handle, tafle, fmell it, you believe for fay you believe) that it is none > neither Bread or Wine, or any other : Now if by fenfe we cannot be fure of the very Being of a fubftance, we can be fure of nothing in the world.

Reafon V J. Yea , it is to be noted, that though Brutes have no Intellects, yet their Senfe and Imagination herein wholly agreeth with the common perception of man : A Dog or a Moufe will eat the bread as common bread, and a Swine will drink the Wine as common Wine : and therefore have the fame perception of it as of common bread and wine • And fo their fenfes mull be all deceived as well as mans. And Brutes have as accurate perfed fenfes as men have, and fome much more. And meer natural operations are more certain and con ft ant ( as we fee by the worlds experience ) than meer Reafon and ^Argumentation. Birds and Beafts are conflant in their perceptions and cotirfe of adion, being not left to the power of 'Mutable free-will.

Reafon VII. You hereby quite overthrow your own foundation, which is fetcht from the Concord of all your party, which you call all the Church : You think

that

tnat zueneralLouncil could not agree to any thing as an Article of faith if it were not fuch • ( when it is but the Major Vote that agree ) j You fay that Tradition is Infallible , becaufe All the Church agreeth in it 7 ( wben it is perhaps but your Sell , which is a Minor fart). But do you not overthrow all this, when you profefs, that All thefenfes of all the found men in the world, and all the fimple perceptions of their IntelUtts by fenfe , do agree , that there is fubftance, yea, de fpecie Bread zn&Wine after the Confecration ?' No one mans perception by fenfe dfagreed in this, from the inftitution of the Sacrament to this day , that can be proved, or the leaft probability of it given. And if this Concord be no proof, much lefs is yours : For, i. The Intellect in Reafoning is more fallible than in its Immediate perception of things fenfed ( or perceived by fenfe). 2. Tours is but the Content offome men • but ours is the Confent of all mankind. Tours among your felves hath ofc in Councils a Minor part of dijfen-ters, who muft be overvoted by the reft: But our Cafe hath never one dijfenting fenfe or perception.

Reafon VIII. By this denyal of fenfe, you overthrow the foundations of Humane Converfe : How can men make any fure Contracts , or perform any duty on a fure ground, if the Concordant fenfes of all the world be falfe ? Parents cannot be fure which are their own Children 5 nor Children which are their own Parents : Husbands cannot certainly know their own Wives from their neighbours. No Subjects can certainly know their own Prince. No man can be fure, whether he buy or fell, receive money or pay it,(^-c„ No man can be fure that there is a Pope, or Prieft, or man in the world.

Reafon IX. You feem to me to BUfpheme God, and to make him the greateft Deceiver of mankind , even

in his holy Worjlup : Whereas 6 od cannot lye •, It is tm-

pojfible : And the Devil is the Father of lyes : And you make God to tell all the world ( as plainly as if words told them ) even by demon fir at ion to their fight,

fmell,fceling, tafie, that, here is Bread und Wine, when there is none • yea, that it is at leaft fome fubfiance which they perceive, when it is none at all.

Reafon X. You thus lain God to be Cruel to Mankind, and that under pretence of Grace • Even to put fuch hard Conditions of falvation on man , which feem to us impoffible, to any but mad men, or thofe who by fa&ion have caft their minds into a dream. If thefe be Gods Conditions^ that no man fhall bzfaved, that doth not believe that all his fenfes, and all the fenfes of all the world, are deceived whea they perceive Bread and Wine, or fubfiance , many may take on them to be-

• lieveit, but lew will believe it , and be faved ind-ed.

• Reafon X I. Hereby you make the Gofpcl or New

Covenant to be far harder ahd more rigorous than ei-

' ther the Law of Mo fits, or the Law of Innoccncy ; For neither of thefe did damn men for believing the agreeing fenfes of all mankind : P erf eft Obedience, to a pcriect. nature, was fit to be a delight. The burden-fome Ceremonies had no fuch In.pofibilities in them. None of them obliged men to renounce all their fenfes, and to come to Heaven by fohard a way.

Reafon XII. You feem to me to Contradict Gods Law and terms of life, and to forge the clean contrary as his: He faith, He that comcth to Godmuft Believe that God u, &c. and He that btlicveth Jliall be faved, and he that believcth not jhall be damned : But you feem to me to fay in plain erfedr, [_ He that Believcth Gods Natural Revelations to all mens fenfes fliall be damned, and that believcth that the faid Revelations are falje^ maybe faved, cxieris.paril>l

Reafon

Reaf XIII. And what a thing by this do you make Gods Grace to be ? Whereas true Grace is the Repairer ; and perfetler cf Nature, you make it to be the defer oyer and deceiver of Nature. The ufe of Grace according to your faith is to caufe men to believe that Gods natural Revelations are falfc, and that all the fenfes of the world in this matter are deceived : Whereas a madman can believe this without Grace.

Reaf. XIV. By this dodrine you abominably corrupt the Church with hypccnfie, while all that will have Communion with you, muft be forced to profefs that all mens fenfes are thus deceived : And can you think that really they can all believe it ? or rather your Church muft.be moftly made up of grofs hypocrites who falfly take on them to believe it when they do not.

Reaf. XV. And by this means you make the Vnity of the Church to become a meer Impoffibility : For your condition of union is, that men all believe this among other Articles of your faith : And that man hath loft or vitiated his humaniiy who can believe and exped, that all Chrifiians in the world Jheuld ever believe that all the fenfes of all the world are thus deceived. You might as well fay, The Church fhall never have Unity till all Chriftians do believe that David or Chrifi was a Worm and no man, a door, a Vine, a thief, a Rock^, in proper fenfe • or we fhall have no unity till we renounce both our humanity and animality and the light and Law of God in Nature. And after this to cry up Vnity, and cry down Schifm, what abominable hypocrifie is it ?

Reaf. XVI. And by this dodrine what bloody inhumanity is become the brand or Charader of your Church ? When you decree ConciL Later, fib. Innoc. 3. Can. 3. that all that will not thus renounce their fenfes, and give the lie to Gods natural revelations, fhall be excommunicated and utterly undone in this World,

G 3 even

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even banifhed from all that they have, and from the Land of their Nativity -, Yea your Inqutntfon muft torture and burn them, and your Writ de hcretkts ccmburendts muft be ifiued out againil them, to fry them to death in flames, if they will not renounce the common fenfts of mankind.

Reaf. XVII. And it even amazeth me to think what horrid Tyrants you would thus make all Cbriftian Princes! When the faid Canon determineth that they fball be fir ft Excommunicate and then caft out of their Dominions, which fhall be given to others, and their fubjecls abfolvcd from their allegiance and fidelity, except they will exterminate all thefe as heretickj from their Dominions, who will not give the iye to all mens fenfes and to Gods natural Revelations. The plain Englifh is, <T> He fiiall 'not be the Lord of his own Dominions who will have men to be his fubjetls, or fuch as will not renounce both their humanity and animality or fenfe. For to perceive fubfiances in genere & infpe-cieby finfe, and to believe or trufi the Common fenfes of all the World about things fcnfible, as being the fureft way that we have of perception, is as neceffary to a tJtfan as Ratiocination is. Choofe then O ye Princes of the Earth, whether you will be Papifis, and whether you will have no men to be your Sub.etts, even none that believe the fenfes of themfelves and all the world.

Reaf. XVIII. Thus alfo your Idolatry exceedeth in abfurdity the Idolatry of all the Heathens elfe in the World : Even Canibals and the moft barbarous Nations upon Earth. For if they call men to Worfhip an Image, the Sun, the Moon, an Ox or an* Onion (of which the Egyptians are accufed) tky do but fay that fome fpiritual or celcfiial numen affixeth his operative pre-fence to this Creature : But they never make men fwear that there is no Image, or Sun or Moon or Ox or Onion

left

left, but that the whole fubfiance of it is turned into God, or fomewhat elfe. Your Abfurdities tend to make the grofleft Idolatry feem comparatively to yours, a very fair and tolerable errour.

Reaf. XIX. By thefe means you expofe Chriflianity to the fcornoi humane nature, and all the world. You teach Heathens, Mahometans and other Infidels to deride Chrift as we do Mahomet ; and to fay that a Chri-ftian Makith and Eateth his God, and his faith is a Be-lieving that Gods fufernatural Revelations are a lie 7 and that God is like the Devil the great Deceiver of the world. Wo be to the world becaufe of offences, and wo be to him by whom offence cometh.

Reaf, XX. Laftly by this means you are the grand pernicious hinderers of the Conversion of the Heathen and Infidel world : For you do as it were proclaim to them ; [Never turn Chrifiians till you will believe that Gods Natural Revelations are falfe, and that all mens fenfes in the world are deceived, in judging that there is Bread, Wine, or fenfible fub fiance after the words of Confecrationf\

Thefe are the mifchievous Confequents of your doctrine. But one benefit I confefs doth come by occafion of it • that it is eifier hereby to believe that there are Devils, when we fee how they can deceive men : and to believe the evil of fin, when we fee how it maketh men mad 5 and to believe that there is a He 11, when we fee fuch a Hell already on Earth, as Learned Pompous Clergie men, that have ftudied to attain this malignant madnefs to decree to fry men in the flames and damn them to Hell, and give them no peace or quietnefs in the World, unlefs they will fav,that Gods Natural Revelations are falfe, and that all mens fenfes are herein deceived, by God as the great deceiver of the World.

G4 CHAP.

CHAP. II.

The Papifts Anfwers to all this confuted.

P. Y T is eafie to make any caufe feem odious, til] the 1 accufationsareanfwered, which I (hall confidently do in the prefent cafe,

L All this is but argument from fenfe : And fenfe muft vail to faith : Gods word muft be believed before our fenfes.

R. It is eafie to cheat fools and children into a dream, with a found of empty words : To talk of fenfes vail* ing to faith and fuch like Canting, and infignificait words, may lerve turn with that fort of men. But fo-bermen will tell ycu that fenfe is in exerafe in order of Nature at leaft btfore Reafon or faith, and that we are Men and Animals before we are Chriftians: And that the truth and certainty of faith , pref iippofeth the Truth and Certainty of fenfe. Tell me elfe, if fenfe be falfe, how you know that there is a Man, or Pope, or Priefl in the World ? that there is a Book^ or Voice, or any being ? And what poffibility then have you of Believing . ?

P. Gods Revelation is furer than our fenfes ?

R. This is the old fong over and over. Revelation without fenfg ( to you and ordinary Chriftians at leaft J is a contradiction. How know you that God hath any revelations ? If by preachers words, How know ycu that there is a preacher, or a word but by fenfe > If by books, How know you that there # a book^ but by fenfe ?

P. 11. We may truft fenfe in all other things, where

God

God doth not contradict it: But not in this One Cafe, becaufe God forbiddeth us.

R. Say fo of your Church too, your Pope, Council or Traditions • that we may truft them in all cafes fave one or two, in which it is certain that they do lye ! And will not any man conclude, that he that can lye in one cafe, can lye in more ? If one Text of Gods word were falfe, and you would fay, You may believe all the reft fave that, how will you ever prove it ? For the formal objed of faith is gone, which is the Divine Veracity • He that can lye once, can lye twice. So if all our fenfesbefalfe in this inftance, how fhall we know that they are ever true ?

P. You may know it becaufe God faith it.

R. i. Where doth God fay it ? 2. How fhall I be fure that he faith it ? If you fay, that it is written in Scripture ^ befides that there is no fuch word • How .fhall I know that all mens fenfes are not deceived in thinking that there is a Scripture , or fuch a word in it ? If you fay that the Council faith it, How fhall I know that there is a man or ever was a Council^ or a Book^ in the world ? The certainty of finclnfanj pre-fuppofeth the certainty of premifes and principles: And the certainty of faith and Reafoning, prefuppofeth the certainty of fenfe : And if you deny this, you deny all, and in vain plead for the reft.

P. I muft believe my fenfes, where I have no reafou * to disbelieve them. But when God contradideth them, ; I have reafon to disbelieve them.

R. 1. You vainly fuppofe without proof that God contradideth them. So you may fay, I may or muft believe the Scripture or an Apoftle, Prophet or Miracle, except God contradict, them. But if God contradict them, he contradideth his own word or revelation : For we have no other from him, but by man : And if he

contradid

contradict himfelf, or his own word, how can I believe him, or know which of his words it is thats true, when ohe is falfe ? fo here : His Natural Revelation is his fir ft, near eft, and mod fatisfatlory revelation : And if that be faid to be falfe by his fisfcrnatural revelation, which fhall I believe, and why ?

P. III. You cannot deny but God can deceive our fenfes. And therefore if he can, will you conclude againft all faith if once he do it ?

R. i. This is not once ^ but as oft as God is wor-fhiped in your Mafs and our Sacrament.

2. God can deceive us without a Lie, but not by a Lie. flhrift deceived the two Difciples, Luke 24. by carrying it as if he would have gone further ^ but not by faying that he. would go further. God can do that from which he knoweth that man will take occafwn of deceit. God can blind a mans eyes, or deflroy or corrupt his other fenfes ^ he can preient an object defectively, with unmeet mediums, diftance, (ice, arc. In this cafe he doth not give us a FALSE SIGN ^ nor doth he by the Nature of the Revelation oblige any man to believe it : Yea Nature fekh 3 that a man is not to Judge by a vitiated fenfe, or an unmeet medium, or a too diflant objett, or where the due qualification of the kni'i: or object are wanting : Nature there tells us that we are there to fuppofeor fufped that we are un-capable of certainty : But Nature obligeth us to believe found fenfes about duly qualified objt&s ^ and to take fenfe for found when all the fenfes of all the men in the wn-ld agree •, and the object to be a duly qualified object of fenfe, when all mens fenfes in the world fo p rcetve ir. For we have no way but by fenfe to know what is an objeel of fenfe.

3. The queftion is not what God can do by his fower, if he will j but what God vtiH do> and can will

to

o do, in confiftency with his perfettion^ andjuft and

nerciful Government of the World. And God in rca-

;:ingusw«7 whofe Intellects are naturally to perceive

hings fenfible by the means of the perception of fenfe,

ioth naturally oblige man and nccejfitate him alfo, to

rult his fenfes in fuch perception. And in Nature man

lath no furer way of apprehenfion : Therefore if you

could prove that ienfe is ordinarily fallible, and Gods

revelations to it falfe, yet man were not only allowed

but necejfitated to ufe and trufl it, as having no better

furer way of apprehenfion : As among many knaves or

lyars, I muft moft trull the hone fie ft and moft trufty,

when I have no better to truft. If 1 am not fure that it

is a Sun or Light that I fee, yet I am fure that I muft

take my perception of it as a Sun or Light as it is •

11 For God hath given me no better. If 1 am not fure

that my fight, feeling, tafte, &c* are infallible . yet I

am fure that I am made of God to ufe them • and that

1 have no better fenfes, nor a better way to be certain

. of their proper objetts : fo that I muft take and truft

them as they are, or ceafe to be a man.

P. IV. thrifts Body and Blood are not fenfible objects ^ and therefore fenfe is no proper judge whether they be prefenr.

Ri This is one of yourgrofs kind of cheats, to change the queftion. We are not yet come to the queftion, Whether Chrifts Body and blood be here /And I grant you that fenfe is no judge of that, any more than whether an Angel be here. But the queftion is now only, Whether Bread or Wine or fenfible fubftance be here ? And of this we have no natural way but by fenfe to judge.

P. V. If God fhould fay to you [Tour fenfes are in this deceived, Here is no bread or wine or fcnftble fub-ftance 3 Would you not believe him ?

X. i. Again

R. i. Again I tell you, it is a fuppofuion not to be put : As if you ihould fay, [If God jlwuld fay , that part of the GofpeI or word of God is falje, would yon not believe him r J 2. If 1 know that God telleth me that fome difeafc orfalfe medium, &c, deceive me ox another in particular, I will believe him : But here it is fuppofed, i. That I have alTurance that it is God that tells me fo . 2. And that I have no aflurance that common fenfe faith the contrary. But if the fenfe of all the world about a well fcituate object of fenfe agree, I will not take that to be Gods word which contradi&eth it, till I havcfo?ne evidence which is better and fironger than the agreeing fenfes of all the world to prove it to be fo. And what evidence muft that be ? I allure you femewhat greater than the authority of a beaftly ignorant murdering Pope, and his factious Council.

P. VI. Cartefim giveth you an inftance of deception of fight: We think a fquare Tower of a Steeple to be round till we come neer it: And the water feemeth to us to move when it is the boat.* "

R. Cartefim and you do feem to be Confederate, to put out the eye of nature, and tempt the world to Infidelity, if not to Atheifm. 1. Nature tells us that a diftant Steeple or other objed, is not perfectly difcermble : and therefore Nature forbiddeth us to judge till we. come neerer. We fpeak only of ob efts duly fcituate and qualified. 2. The failing of the fight there is but Negative : It difcerneth not the corners : but here you feign it to be pofitive. 3. As the errour is corrigible by nearer approach, fo alfo by the ufe of other fenfes. If a man feel the Tower that is fquare, he will infallibly perceive it. But if you could prove that this fquare Tower is noTower, no Stone, no Sub fiance at all, though all the world ihould judge otherwise that fee it at the

wectefi

(93) meetefi diftance, and feel it with their hands, then you did fomething to the purpofe.

So as to the moving water cr banks, i. Motion is not Co evident as fubfiance, 2. Though one fenfe, through the weaknefs of the bruin be inefficient, the Intellclb by the fume fenfe about 01 her objects, and by other fenfes can infallibly difcern what that one perceiveth nor. 3. And if one mans eyes deceive him who is in the boat, ten thoufand mens eyes that ftand on the firm land^zv-ccive the truth : But in our cafe it is all the fenfes of all the world, in all ages, about the necrefl object, that agree.

P. VII. Sub fiance is not the proper objed of fenfe 7

■ but only Accidents: We fee, feel, tafte, fmell the accidents, but not the fubftances.

R. 1. If you can name fome notional fpeculator or

I Word-maker that hath faid fo, you think you have authority to renounce humanity by it. Call it proper or not-proper, fibftance is the certain object of fenfe as cloathed with its accidents. Quantity and the res quanta are not two things, but one : And he that feel-eth or feeth quantity, feeleth or feeth the rem quan-tam. He that feeth or feeleth fhape or figure, feeth or

! feeleth the thing figured. He that fmelleth odor^ fmel-leth rem c dor at am ^ He that feeth Colour, feeth the rem coloratam. When to feel the fuperficies, you feel the fubftance.

2. By this we fee how by words you will unman mankind. Have ycu any way of perception of corporal fab-

i fiances but by fenfe ? Do you know that there is any ' Earth or Water, or any corporal f 11bfiance in the world,

or not? If you do, tell us how you know it but by the ! perception of fenfe prefenting it to the Intellect ? You

know that you muft thm know it, or not at all.

3. And thus ftill you would bring men with Scepti-

cifra

(H)

cifm to Infidelity. You would teach men, that the^ that faw Chrift were not fure that they faw him or am fubftance at all, but only the accidents, called Quantity Shape, Colour, &c. They that faw Apoftles, Miracles Bibles, Councils, were not fure that they faw any mori than accidents, &c.

P. VIII. They that faw Angels appearing to th-:rt like men, or the Holy Ghoft defcending on Chrift ir the fhape of a Dove, thought they faw Men and ; Dove : So Mofes Rod did feem a Serpent. But theii fenfes did deceive them.

R* Their fenfes were not at all deceived : And if by rafh. judging they would go beyond fenfe, and wilfully deceive themfelves, it was their fault. Their fenfe faw the JJjape or liksnefs of a man and dove. The text faith, not that the. Holy Ghoft was a dove, but that it defended in the likenefs of a Dove : and their fenfes perceived no more. And this was true. A man conlifteth of a foul and a body of flefh and blocd •. Did fenfe perceive any of this in the Angels? either, foul, flefh or blood ? or any fuch thing in the appearance of a dove ? If I fee your pi&ure or ftatue, is my fenfe deceived if I take it not for a living man ? If I fee it moved^ is my fenfe deceived if I take it not for any other than a moving Image ? Nature doth not bind me to take every fimiie to be idem •, a corps for a man • an Image for the per [on. It will be foolifhnefs fo to take ir. But if this Angela or Dove, had come near to the fenfes, all the fenfes, of all forts of men, and they had feen, and felt, arid tafted, zn&pnelt, all that are the obje&s of thefe fenfes, and yet there had been indeed no vifible, ta&ible,; fenfible fubftance at all, this had been a deception of! the fenfes remedilefs. Chrift I am fure appealed to fenfe, to prove that he had flefh and blood and was not a meerfpirit. The fame I fay of Mofes Rod ; either it

was

\9) )

,vas really a Serpent or not ^ If it was, then it was no deception to judge it fuch : If not, fenfe was not at all Received : For it perceived nothing but thefimilitude and motion, andthofe ( with the fubftance ) were certainly there. But if all mens fenfes, feeing, feeling, tailing, &c. had been deceived, and there had been indeed no Jhape of a Serpent, nor any fcnfible fiibfiance at all but .Accidents real without any fubftance, this had been indeed a deception of theienfes. And if God fo fubvert mans nature, he will not bind him to do the things which belong to the nature of man to do.

But by all this we may perceive, that there is no end • of Controverfies with you to be hoped for : For how is it poflible to bring any thing to a more fatisfying iftiie, than when the fenfes of all the world do as clearly perceive it, as any fenfible thing can be perceived ? If our difference were whether this be Paper, and thefe be Letters • or whether this be a Pen, a Table, yea or a fubftance, and I fhould appeal to the fenfe of all the World, and yet this will not ierve to decide the Con-troverfie ^ what end, or hope of ending can there be : I will fooner look for concord with a mad man, than with men that deny the fenfes of all the World.

CHAP.

CHAP. III.

The fecond Argument Again ft Tranfubftantiation : The Contradictions of it.

R. Arg.2. (T^Od owneth not Contradi&ions (nor VJ can do). The Papifts doctrine of Tranfubftantiation, or nullification of the whole fubftance of Bread and Wine, is contradictious : Therefore it is not owned by God.

The Major I know no man that denyeth.

The Contradictions arethefe.

1. You feign many Accidents of no fubftance ; which is a grofs contradiction. For to be an Accident is efTentially Relative to a fubject or fubftance : And ejus ejfe efl ineffe. To be a Rather without a Son, or a Son without a Father, a Husband without a Wife, or a Wife without a Husband, &c. are contradictions: And fo it is to be an Accident of nothings or without a fab jell*

Particularly, i. The quantity of nothing is a contradiction : We can meafure the Bread, and Wine : To be an inch in longitude, latitude or profundity, and yet to be no fubftance is a contradiction. To be ( as the Wine is ) a quart , a gallon of Nothing is a contradiction.

2. So for number • we can number the wafers or pieces of Bread, and the Qtfs of W T ine : And to be twenty, forty , an hundred nothings y is a contradiction.

3. So for the Weight, To be an ounce , a found y or ten pound; of nothings is a contradiction.

4. So

4» So for the figure or fliape : It is a contradiction to be a round nothings a fqttare nothings See.

5. So is it to be a Jwcet nothing, a fharp nothing, an aufiere nothing, &c. as the W*#* is fancied by you.

6. Or robe an odoriferous nothing: A rough or a fmooth nothing, &c

7. Or to be a white nothing, or a tW nothing, or any coloured noting. The fame I may fay 01 fit e 7 and of a multitude of Relations, &c.

II. It is a contradiction, tor Nothing to have all thofe Real notable ejfecis, which it is certain that the confecrated Bread and Wine have.

As, 1. That when a man or a beaft, is really vou-riflied by the Bread and H^fi and flejh and &/<W, and fpirits are made of it, ( as they may live by it many months, ) that thefe fhould be the effects of nothing, or made out of no fubflance by way of Nutrition, without a proper Creation.

2. When the Confecrated Bread and Wine do partly turn to Excrements, Vrine, Dung and Spittle, that all the Excrements are nothings or #W* 0/ nothing without a tffvp C reat ^ on ^ * s a contradiction.

3. When the Wine fhall ( as it may do ) make a man I cr z. fvine drunks, that he is made drunk Jay nothing I or no fubflance, when as that drunkennefi is effentially I the operation of the fpirits of the W/#* upon the fpirits ! of him that drinks it, this alfo is a contradiction. And I God maketh not contradictions true.

P. It is the plea of an Infidel to fay that God cannot do this or that. Will you limit the power of the Almighty ? Will ycu fay that God cannot make Quantity, quality, fce, eye without fubflance, becaufe we cannot? It is blafphemy to fay God cannor.

H & God

R* God can do All things that arc works ef Power : God can do nothing which is a work of Jmpotency, defective nefs, naughtinefs, or folly y or which are contradictions in themfelves. And when we fay God cannot, we do but fay either that God is Perfect and Almighty, or that the thing is Nothing, but a falfe name, and not capable of being any ones work. God cannot lye, becaufe he is perfeft and Almighty, and not be-caufe he wanteth power. God cannot make you to be a man and no man, a fubfiance and no fubfiance, in the fame fence, at the fame time : becaufe it is a contradiction.

But if this Argument did not hold, and it were no contradiction, for God to overturn his fetled courfe of Nature, I (hall (hew you next that we have other rea-fons enough to judge that he doth it not. If he Can make darknefs to give Light, and a clod to be to the World inftead of the Sun, without changing it, or a ftone to underftand and fpeak without changing it, yet that God doth none of this, both reafon and experience prove.

CHAP-

!

KS>9)

CHAP. IV,

The Third Argument againflTranfubftantiation: front the certain falJJwod of their affertion of multitudes of Miracles in it,

K. HpHat doctrine which afferteth a multitude of L falfe or feigned Miracles is falfe and not of

God : But fuch is the do&rine of Tranfubftantiation

E rg0 ,

I will i. Shew you what Miracles it afTerteth ; and 2. Prove that they are feigned or falfe.

I. It is a Miracle for Bread and Wine to be turned irn to no Bread and Wine, yea, into nothing -, and this by the fpeakjng of four Words.

II. It is a Miracle ( or Contradiction ) for the Bread and Wine to be turned into Chrifls Body and Blood, and yet neither the matter nor form of it- to become any of the matter of Chrifls body and blood.

III. It is a Miracle, ( or a contradiction rather as aforefaid ) for the Accidents to be the Accidents of i\ft-thing, or no fubfiance -, to be the quantity of Nothing, theJhape, the number of nothing, the colour j favour, fme 11 of nothing, and fo of all the reft.

I V. It is a Miracle to have all the found fenfes of all forts of men in the world fo deceived herein, as to per* ceive bread, wine and fubfiance, if there be none.

V. It is a Miracle to have the fenfes of Mice and Rats, and Dogs and other Brutes alfo deceived when they eat and drink ir.

V I. It is a Miracle ( or contradiction ) to have nothing without a Creation, to become excrements: ot elfe thofe excrements to be nothing alfo : And the

H 2 Accidents

fioo)

Accidents of all thofe excrements to be the Accidents of Nothing*

VII. It is a Miracle to be nouri^ed by Nothing : ( For you fay, that it is not ftmfls body and blood that nourifheth the rlefh. ) To have Hefh and blood made of nothing, is a creation.

VIII. It is a Miracle to be drunt^whh nothings when xhtWine is annihilated or gone, and feemeth to be it that caufeth the effe&: Yea, for Beaft or man to be fo drunk.

IX. It is a Miracle ( or contradiction ) for Chrift to eat his own body ( as the Papifts hold he did )• and yet it was his Whole Body which did eat his body, and yet he had but one body.

X. It was a Miracle ( or contradiction ) for Chrifts entire body to be nourifhed by that eaten body, and that the eaten body turned into the fubftance of his eating body : And yet all was but one.

. XL It was a Miracle that Chrifts Bate n body being not dead but living with a humane foul, fhould be broken and eaten by him and his difciples, and yet feel no pain by it.

XII. It was a Miracle that his whole body was on the Crofs h and yet \ art of it in the difciples bellies at that time ■> or at leaft before that eaten by them.

XIII. It was a Miracle ( or contradiction ) that Chrifts eaten body now nourifheth not the fiefh of any man •, and yet did nourifh the flefh of the difciples before his death. Or if it did not nourifh them, it was a Miracle that what they eat and drank then did not nourifh the m, ( or Chrift what he eat and drank ).

XIV. It was a Miracle that the whole body of Chrift fhould arife and live, and afcend to Heaven, when the difciplej had eaten it.

XV.

(lOl)

» X V. It is a Miracle that every Receiver eateth the whole body ofChrift, and not a part, and yet that he hath but one body j or that they eat each a part without dividing him.

XVI. It is a Miracle that as foon as the fpecies of Bread and Wine perifh or ceafe in the Eater, Chrifts body and blood ceafeth to be in him, and this without his detriment.

XVII. It is a Miracle that there is fuch a local di-ftauce between the confecrated bread and wine all over the world ■ and yet no fuchdiftance between the parts of Chrifts body, and yet that bread to be his body,

XVIII. It is a Miracle that bread and wine is Annihilated or ceafe every Mafs, and yet that the quantity of corporeal matter in the whole world is no whit diminifhed : or elfe that thofe four words can fo annihilate and diminifh the matter of the world.

XIX. It is a Miracle that Chrifts body and blood increafe not, when fo many millions ofparcells of bread and wine are turned into it.

XX. It is a Miracle that Chrifts body and blood is not diminifhed, when by the Corruption of the fpecies of bread <*nd wine, it vanifheth away.

XXI. It is a Miracle that Chrifts body and blood fhould be fo received into the bowels of a wicked man, and yet not be any way defiled by his (in, nor by his bodily uncleannefs.

XXII. It is a Miracle that a Raker difpofitively, and a Prieft effectually can make his own God, and eat him when they have done.

X X 111. It is a Miracle that when Worms are bred of that which was bread and wine, thefe worms are really generated of nothings created • f or if as fome fay, the bread and wine do fubftantially return again, and breed them, that is another, a double miracle.)

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XXIV. And it is a Miracle that the Corporeal matter of the world fhould by thefe Worms be daily in-creafed, out of nothing, or out of meer accidents that have no fubftance.

XXV. It is a Miracle that men may be poyfoned by the Sacramental Elements as ingredients in the mixture, and yet that they are no fubftance.

XXVI. It is a Miracle or Contradidion,that when flejh and blood ( formally fuch ) enter not into the Kingdom of God, but Glorified bodies are all fpiritual bodies ( though not Spirits ), and therefore not fiejh and blood : Yet Chrifts body in the Sacrament fhould be truly and properly fiejl) and blood , and yet the fame with his glorified body ( which is not flefh and Wood : ) which is the Papifts doftrine j and the bread turned into fLchflefh.

XXVII. It is a Miracle that the fame Body which in Heaven is brighter in Glory than the Sun, and exalted above Angels, fhould yet fhew no figns of Glory on the Altar, in the Cup, in the hand, mouth or beliy of him that taketh it h but all its Glory be fo hid.

XXVIII. It is a Miracle ( or Contradiction ) that Chrifts Humiliation ftiouldbe paft, and his whole Body Glorified, and yet that to be torn with the teech of a wicked man, to be eaten by Mice, Rats or Dogs, to go into the filthy guts, to be trodden in the dirt, fhould be neither painful, nor any diminution of the Glory of that fame body. Indeed his body on the Crofs might be broken, and his blood fpilt and trodden on, becaufe he was a facririce for fin ; and it was the time of his Voluntary Humiliation : But now for the fuffering of deaih he is crowned with Glory and Honour, Hcb. 2.9,7.

XXIX. It is a Miracle that the Living Body of our Glorified Redeemer fhould give no evidence or fign of

life; neither ftir, nor fpeak, nor have breath, pulfe, warmth, or other property of life appearing.

XXX, It is a Miracle, at lead, thu/lejlj fhould have none of the common notes or properties of fle/h, not to be made of food, of blood and chyme, not to con-fill of the fibra which fleih confifteth of y not to have the colour, tafte, odour or other fuch accidents of flefh : And that Blood fhould have none of thefe notifying accidents of blood.

XXXI. It is a Miracle or Contradiction , that Chrifis FleJJ} was Broken before it was broken , facrificed before it was facrificed, I mean really broken and facrificed at his Supper, when yet he was whole and not really facrificed till he was nailed to the Crofs. And fo that his blood was really and properly fhed in his Supper, and yet no skin broken, nor his blood really fhed till his fide was pierced on the Crofs. And that he that was but once offered and Jacnficcd, fhould yet be offered and facrificed once on one day, and another time on another day.

Here are one and thirty Miracles or Contradictions: Let us hear fome of the Aggravations of them, as worthy to be confidered.

I. It is a Miracle of thefe Miracles, that there fhould be as many Miracle workers asPriefts in the world : How many thoufand are they in France alone ? And fo in many other Countreys. Whereas in Cbrifts own time, they were comparatively but few.

II. That the Pope or any Prelate can make a Miracle worker when he pieafe, yea, a thoufand y as if the Holy Ghoft were at his will.

III. It is a Miracle of thefe Miracles that a Simonift who buyeth the Priefthood with money, doth buy the Holy Ghoft to work Miracles for that money, which Simon Metgm was condemned for thinking poffible.

H* For

( 104;

For the Papifts hold, that the Confecration of a Simoni-a.cal Prieft traniubftantiateth.'

IV. It is a Miracle that all this power of Miracles fhould be given to flagitious wicked men ^ Adulterers, Murderers, Drunkards, &c.

V. It is a Miracle that all thefe men can work Miracles at their own will an'dfleafure^ at any hour : whereas the Apoflles had not the Spirit at command, and could not do it when they would.

VI. It is a Miracle that Miracles fhould be as common as Maffes, or the Euchariftical worshipping of God i' not only on every Lords Pay in all Church-af-femblies , but any day or hour elfe in the Week, And fo Miracles be as ordinary almoft as to eat and drink/

V 11. It is a Miracle that every wicked Prieft fhould do fo many Aliracles in one , and fo many more in number than Chriji himfelf did, in the fame proportion of time, as far as the Hiftory of the Gofpel telleth us: Chrift is quite exceeded by them all.

V111« It is a Miracle that every wicked Prieft can work all thefe Miracles fo eafly y as with the carelefs faying over four words : When the j4pofllcs could not cait out fome Devils, or work fome Miracles, and fome could not be done but by faft ing and payer.

I X. It is a Miracle that every Prieft can work all thefe Miracles upon an unbeliever or a wicked man: For to fuch they fay, it is the real fleft and blood of (jhrifiy and no bread or wine ^ And the fenfes of all thefe wickgd men are deceived. Whereas Chtift him-felf could not do any great miraculous wor i^among fome where he came, becaufe of their unbelief

X. It is a Miracle that Cod and the Trieft fhould do thefe forefaid Miracles on Mice and Rats and other fcafts, by deceiving their fenfes, which we find not

that

that Chrift ever did : or that God fhould feed them with the miraculous accidents aforefaid.

X I. It is a Miracle of thefe Miracles that the Prieft can thus eafily work Miracles not only on other creatures, but on the glorified body of Qforifi himfelf, ( by the forefaid changes, eH. )

XII. Ic is a Miracle, that when Chrift wrought his Miracles ufually before a far fmaller number, thefe Priefts work Miracles thus before or on the fenfes of all the men in the world that will be prefent at the Mafs ^ for all their fenfes are deceived.

XIII. It is a Miracle that the Aballines, Armenians, Greeks, Protectants, yea,

any that they call Schifma- nd.Aquw. 3.^.82. a.j.c. ticks, and Hereticks, who do

not intend to work any Miracle, nor believe Tranfub-ftantiation,do yet work Miracles in each Sacramental administration of the Eucharift, not only without their knowledge, but contrary to their belief, and againfi their wills : For they fay, that even fuch mens confecration is effectual.

XIV. Either their Priefts confecration worketh all thefe Miracles, when they

intend it not, fas if they ?'U.^quin.^.q.6^.a. 9 . fpeak the words in jeaft or

fcorn, or in Infidelity, ) or only when they intend it. If the firft be faid, it is a Miracle of Miracles, that any Prieft can work fo many and great Miracles by a jeaft

or fcorn —If not, then all the bufinefs is come

to nothing, and no one but the Prieft knoweth whether there be any fuch Miracle at all, and whether ever he eat the flefli of Chrift : And fo it will be in the power of the Prieft to deceive and damn all the people, according to the Papifts etfpofition of Chrifts words, Joh.6. Except ye eat the fiefh of the Son of man and drink his bloody you 'have no life in yon* X V.

(ib6)

X V. Either a malicious intention te a wrong end will be eifc&ual in Confeeration, or not. If not, none but the Prieft knoweth that there is auy body and blood of Chrift, or that ever he received any: Becaufe none knoweth though the Prieft intend Confeeration, whether he intend it to a right end. But if a wicked end will ferve ( as I think mod of them hold ) the Miracle may be great and fad. For any Roguifh drunken malicious Prieft may undo a Baker or Vintner at his plea-fure, and by four words deprive him of all his Bread and Wine : Yea, he might nullifie all ihe Bread and Wine in theCYry, and fo either make a famine at his pleafure, or elfe make whole Families and Cities live ftill and be nourifhed without any fubftance by bare Accidents, which would be a Miracle indeed.

If the Prieft can by confeeration change only a con* venient quantity of bread and wine , then all that is ever much is bread and wine after confeeration. If otherwife, why may he not change all the bread and wins in the Shop or Cellar where hecometh, intending confeeration to an ill end ?

If he can do it only on the Altar , then want of an Altar would fruftrate the effed: ( which they hold not ). But if he can do it without an Altar he may do it in the Shop and Cellar,

If he can do it only on the bread and wine prefent, how near rnuft it be ? Then the words will work at fo many yards diftance, and not at fo many. Or if he cannot do it out of fight , a blind Prieft cannot doit. But if he can do it on that which is abfent , we may fear left in an anger be may take away all the bread and wine in the Land ^ at leaft in a frolick to try his power.

XV",

Cio7;

XVI. And it is fonr.e aggravaion of thefe manifold Miracles that a Degraded

Trie ft can do them : Because v& Aquw. 3. ? . 82. a. 2. they follow the indelible Character : And fo he that hath.once made a Miracle-I worker, cannot take away his power again, nor his fin lofe his power* Is not this a marvellous power of Miracles, which becometh like a nature to them, as the power of fpeaking is ?

XVII. Yet is this Miracle-working-power more miraculous, in that a mans own unwillwgnefs , or Repentance ot his Calling cannot hinder the Miracle if he do but fpeak four words, frnfent it fe/f is not necef-fary to it: Let a man Repent that ever he was a Trie ft y and profefs that he continued in that Calling againft his will, yea, let him write as I now do again ft Tr an-fubftantiation, yet all this will not hinder his next Con-fecration from working all the forefaid Miracles.

XVIII. It is miraculous that if you keep a confe-crated Wafer never fo long, if you ufe it never fo courfly, if you ( as he did who occafioned the conver-fion of Mr. Anthony Egan a late Injh Prieft ) pawn it at an Ale-houfe for thirty (hillings •, if you lay it down for a flake at Cards or Dice, &c. it will not ceafe to be Chriftsflejh ( and fo by his blood, ) nor ever becomes bread, or any other fubftance till it corrupt : And yet in a mans ftomach it ceafeth to be Chrifts body, as natural heat corrupteth it by conco&ion ; And yet it is not Chrifts flejh that is concocted.

XIX. It is a Miracle of this Miracle which Aquino* and others afTert, that the Bread and Wine are not Annihilated , but wholly turned into Chrifts body and blood • and yet, as Fafquez, faith, It is not that the matter of bread begins to be under the form of Qirifts body ( as Dnrandu* hdd.) Saith Veron Reg. fid. cap. 5.

(io8)

This Tranfidft an tiat ion is neither a change nor a pro~ duchion of any thing j but it is a Relation of cyder between the fukftance that doth defift to be, and that into which it doth defift. And yet faiih r.he Concil. Trident, There is a change made of the whole fub-fiance into, &c.

XX. Laftly, It is a Miracle that all thefe Miracles fhould be done fo as not to appear to the fenfes of any man living, either to Convert Unbelievers or Confirm the faithful : So that millions of thefe Miracles are fun and not feen » the Pried, and A&ion, and Accidents are fcen, but no Miracle fcen by any. vSo that Aminos concludeth 3. q. 76. a % 7, [Though Chrift be exifcent in this Sacrament per median- ptbftantia , yet neither bodily eyes, nor our Intellects can fee him, but by faith: no nor the IztclU'il ojan Angel can fee him fecundum fua naturalia 5 nor do Devils fee him but by faith -, nor the blefied, but in the Divine EfTence ,~]

All thefe make thefe Miracles far more miraculous than the railing of Lazarus from the dead.

WHether all thefe are Miracles, ormoftormany of them Contradictions, and therefore Impof-fibilities, I make no great matter of at this time. I think it utterly needlefs to add any more to what is faid in anfwer to fuch fayings as Aquinas ( 3. q. 75. &' 76.) and other Schoolmen, that [The fenfes arc not deceived, beeaujc there are the Accidents, and the Jn-telleti is by faith prefcrved from deception: that the remaining accidents are in quantirate dimenliva quail in fubjefto : that thefe Accidents can change an cx-trinfick^body, ean be corrupted, can generate Worms, can nourifti, can be broken, eVc. ] I or ail this at lead corifefTcth, that its all done by Miracle ; ( Though I

will

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will fay, i. That they could fcarce have chofen a more unhappy pro-fubje& of Accidents than Quantity, nor have given more unhappy reafons for it than Aquinas doth q. 77. a. 2. c. 1. Becaufe the fenfe perceiveth that it is Aliquid quantum, that is coloured, 2, Be-caufe Quantity is the frfi difpofnion of matter , &c. For this includeth matter : and Aliquid quantum is a word that giveth away his Caufe: And no Accident is more the fame with its fubjeft than Quantity , or moles extenfiva. 2. And he will be long before he will make or prove mans nature to be fuch , as that his Intellect can judge of fubftances by Believing, as incomplex objects, before it have perceived them by fenfeand imagination. When we fee, tafte, fmell, feel, hear them, the Intellect will fuddenly and neceflarily have fome fpecics or perception of the Thing , before it come Logically to difpute from extrmfick^ media of Teftimony , What this thing is in a fecond notion. And our queftion is, Whether the Intellect: in thU firft Perception be deceived, or not ? If you difcharge the Intellect from perceiving fubftances prefently , before it know them by fecond notions or Argument, you will make man quite another thing, than every hour and a&ion tells us he is: But what will not a man fay, when he fets himfelf only to ftudy what to fay for the making good of his undertaken Caufe ?

But my next work is to prove the Fallhood of thefe pretended Miracles.

CHAP*

( no;

CHAP. V.

The Minor proved, viz. That thefe Miracles are

Mi.

THat thefe are all but feigned Miracles, I thus prove. I. Becaufe the holy Scriptures do plainly deny fuch an ordinarinefs or commonnefs of the gift of Miracles, i Cor. 12. 8,9, io, 11. £ To one is given by the fpirit the word of Wifdom^ to another the word of Knowledge by the fame fpirit, to another faith by the Jame fpirit, to another the gifts of healing by the fame fpirit y to another the working of miracles, &c. But all thefe worketh that one and the ft If fame fpirit • dividing to every man fever ally as he wilL 28, 29. tAnd God hath fet fome in the Church, firfi Apofiles } fecon-darily Prophets, thirdly Teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healing, helps, Governments, diverfities of tongues : Are all Apofiles I are all Prophets ? are all Teachers ? are all workers of Miracles, \

Here it is mod exprefly told us, that working Miracles is a peculiar gift of fome, and even in thofe times not common to all that were Priefts. But the Papifts make it common to every Prieft, though a common Adulterer, Drunkard, Murderer or Heretick ^ no one Prieft in the world is without it.

11. Though fome few that were workers of iniquity might have fome fuch gifrs, <sJP{atth. 7. Yet that was fo rare, that Nature it felf taught men to judge Miracles to be figns of divine approbation; fo that Nico-demm thence argueth, Joh. 3.2. No man could do thefe Miracles that thou dofi except God be With him. And

the

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he man Joh. 9.31. God heareth not (inners, but if any man be a Worfnipper of God and doth his will, him he heareth. And the people, verf. 16. How can a man that is a finner do fuch Miracles ? And it was Chrifts own proof that he was of God, and his Gofpel true y and therefore to Blafpheam his Miracles , by afcribing them to the Devil, was the unpardonable Blafyhemy of the Holy Ghoft : And to deny Miracles to be a fign of Gods atteftation is to fubvert all Chriftianity. A ft. 2.22. Jefui of Nazareth a man approved of God among you by miracles, wonders and figns which Cjod did by him in the midfi of you — Joh. 5. 36. The fame works that I do bear witnefs of me that the Father hath fent me. Joh. 10. 25, 37, 38. The works that I do in my

Fathers name, they bear witnefs of me Jf /

do not the works of my Father, believe me not : But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works, that ye may know and believe that the Father is in me, and I in him*

Joh. 14.11. Believe me for the very works fakg.

Joh. 15.24. If 1 had not done among them the works that no other man did, they had not had fin*

This alfo was Pauls proof of his Apoftlefhip, yea and of the truth of all the Apoftles do&rine : Heb. 2.5,4. God alfo bearing 2 cor. 12.12. them witnefs both with figns and wonders, AftTi'.V 9 ' and divers Miracles, and gifts of the &I51 --Holy Ghoft, according to his own Will.

Therefore that Doctrine is unlike to be true, which tells us that every wicked ^ Iatth 21 1 ^ Trie ft in the world, though a Simonift, or an enemy of (fhrift and Godlinefi, and drown din all Vice, is fuch a ermftant miracle-worker : When God hateth all the workers of iniquity, Pfal. 5.5.

Cirt)

III. Eut though this Reafon be but probable, this following is demonftrative to a believer.

That dotlrine which makcth every Ignorant wicked or Heretical Trie ft in the world, far toexcell the Prophets, Apoftles, and Qirift hiwfclf, in the Greatnefs, Number and facility of Miracles, is falfe : But fuch is this doBrinc of Tranfubftantiation - —

I know that Chrift telleth his Apoftles^GV^ er works than thefe fiall ye do. ~\ But i. There are Greater -works ( fuch as the converting of greater numbers-ill the World ) which are not Greater Miracles : 2. And what was promifed to the Apoftles, as to Miracles, was not promifed to every Trie ft in the world.

I appeal to the Consciences of fober Christians, whether it found not as ah arrogant if not blafpheamous fpeech, to fay that Chrift and his Apoftles did fewer and [mailer miracles ( proportionable to their time ) than every Trie ft.

And as to the Minor, it is foon proved in its parts.

1. As to the Greatne§ of the Miracles \ thofe of Chrift were exceeding Great : efpecially his Raifwg Lazarus, and his own Refurrelhion, his turning water 'into Wine, and his feeding thoufands with a little

food But he that will examine Tranfibftantia-

tion as afore-defcribed, (hall find it to have more that is contrary to nature, than all thefe, by far. The fubftance of the dead body of Chrift or Lazarus did not vanish, but remained to be the organized Recipient' matter of the re-entring foul. There were no Accident's without fubftances, or other fuch things as are mentioned be-•fore. The multiplying of food, could at the inoft be tut 3.'new Creation •, But it was real food, and none of the contradictions or abfurdities before recited. The turning of Water into Wine was like ft this in the Papifts opinion ? but indeed little like it. lor the matter of the

Water

water there remained, with the firm of Wine, and fa became the Matter of Wine, and did not vanijh i And here was real Wi?ie, and real fubfiance, and not Accidents without fubjlances, deceiving all the fenfes or JntelleElual perceptions. The fame may be faid of the miracles cf the Apoftles, compared with Tranfubftan-tiation.

2. And as to the Number, though Chuifts and his Apoftles Miracles Were very many, yet there is no Scripture-evidence that they were for number comparable ( for fo much time) to every Priefls. Chriffa miracles are fet down in the facred hiftory in fttch order, and the Evangelifts fo much agree in reciting the fame miracles, that ( though $t. John fay ) the world

could not contain the Books that foouldbe written

yet we find no probability that they were neer fo com-

, mon as Majfes are * when in feveral places where Chrift came, they that looked after Miracles and Signs were denyed them, and had none, but were put off to the fign of the Prophet Jonah, &c. Yea Herod and Pilate were in this denyed their defired fatisfattion • and they that call to him for a miracle on the Crofs. Andfo of the Apoftles. But every Prieft doth his miracles as eft at there is a Mafs, though every day4

3. And as to the Facility I faid before^that [in his own (Country, among his own kjndred, he could do no mighty work^fave that he layed his hands on a few fick^

folk^and healed them, and he marvelled at their unbelief\ Mark6. 4, 5,6. And he fome time groaned in Jpirit 9 and wept, fas for Lazarus), And the Difciples could not cafl out a Devil , Mar. 9. 18^28. Luk.9.40* It was not to be dune but by fafttng and prayer. Its like Paul would have cured Trophimm if he could, when he left him fick* And as holy men fpakc, not when, nor as they pleafed, but when and as they wtre infpired by the

Holy Ghoft : fo did they work^ miracles, not arbitrarily, but at fuch times and in fuch manner as the fpirit moved them.

But any the moft wicked Prieft can do it at his plea-fure, any hour of the day : and that but by reciting Hoc eft corpus me urn. Many other difparities appear in what is faid before.

IV. The End of the Gift of Miracles confuteth the feigned Miracles of Tranfubftantiation. The End of Chrifts gift was to prove him to be of God ( as is afore-fhewed ) and to prove his Apofiles to he of God, and to confirm the Gofpel which they Preached, Mar. 16. 17, 18, 19, 20. Heb. 2. 4. As the gift of Tongues fo other wonders, were to convince unbelievers y j Cor. 14. AA. 2. &4.30. & 5. 12. &7. 36. & 8. 13. & 14.3. 2 Cor. 12. 12.

But the miracles of Tranfubftantiation are known to no unbeliever •, nor to any one in the world by any fenfe ^ and have no fuch End, but a contrary effed.

The Apoftles who were to convert the world, and next Chrift, to do the greateft good, were therefore to do the greateft miracks: And it was their argument for Chrift, Joh.7. 31* When fimft cometh mil he do more miracles than thefe which this man hath done . ? Yet now every ignorant Prieft pretendeth to far more, who doth but tempt Infidels to deride Chriftianity by the pretence ; as we do Mahometanifm, for Mahomets fport pretended With the Moon, and other fuch delirations.

V. God is not to be faid to work Miracles and crofs the eftablifhed courfe of nature without proof. But thefe pretended Miracles have no proof No man living perceiveth them by fenfe. And that God telleth us of no fuch things by fupernatural Revelation, fhall be further (hewed anon : In the mean time, it may fatisfie

us,

fMf)

us, that they bring us no proof, but their own affirmation, which they require us to believe.

VI. The Matter of thefe pretended Miracles is ex-prefly contradicted by the W6rd of God, as fhall be proved in the next Chapter.

VII. Adhominem • Do not the Papifts forget them-felves here, and contradict

their Other fuppofltions ? So they do by forbidding to eat Flefh

. T-i , X 0 i^ in L a m : And yet fay they eat Ch rifts

i. They make Miracles fle(h - Unt .. fc; k i f dt:d by to be one evidence offantli- o&ukmi* com. in i Ten <■. a; bring-

„ J l. r f> eth in Blandma proving to the Hea-

ty, and therefore (,anomZ.e tbens that Chriftians did not eat flefh

men, When they think that and drink blood in the Eucharift, be-

, '. r i i cauie that th^v u(e even to abftain for

they have prOOt that they exer cife fake/from Lawful flefh.

wrought Miracles : And

yet maintain that a Whoremonger, Drunkard or He-

retick may do many more.

2. *They make Miracles a proof that they are the true Church, and fay that among m thefe are 'no Miracles ; and yet they eonlefs that every Prieli, among us and all others, whom they account Schifmaticks and He-reticks, do more Miracles than Qbrift ^\ if they confe-crate frequently.

3. They burn men to allies for -working miracles^ even for making Cod • if fo be, they do it not in the Roman fafhion.

4. They confefs that the other Sacraments are not thus made up of Miracles 9 no not Baptifm, which is our

"Qiriftening, and wafheth us from our fins: And yet this Sacrament alone , mud by a multitude of Miracles differ from the reft.

4. Whether the Doctrine of their St. Thomas and his followers and others, that the formal words of this Sacrament have a created effective virtue by which they rnftr urn ent ally make the change ( 3. q. 78. a. 4. c.) be not an "abfurdity rather than a proper miracle. For

(US)

■words Phyfically move but the air firft, and the terminus of the aires motion ( e.g. the ear ) next : and next that, if it be an intelle&ual, or oiher animal recipient, the fenfe, and fantafie next, and fo on : But the Bread -and Wine have no fenfe nor fantafie nor Intellect : And to fay that the moved aire is the means of turning them into the body and blood of Chrift, is ftill to multiply miracles.

5. Do they not too much magnifie the common rvork^ ( and confequendy the office ) of a Priefi, above the work of a Pope or Prelate, who feldom confecrate ? when the Prieft worketh fo many Miracles more than they?

<5. They conclude that a (inner that hath Volnntatem feccandi receiveth Baptifm in vain, as to its ends of pardoning him, and therefore fhould not receive it ( Con-cil. Rom, Epift. Gregor. 7. Aquin. 3. q. 68. a. 4.C. &c.) And yet, be the finner never fuch an hypocrite or Infidel, he eateth Chrifts real flefti nevertheless, yea againft his will, if he do but the outward ad.

7. Is it not ftrangethat an Infidel receiveth as verily the real flefh and blood of Chrift as a Saint, and yet not the benefits or effects f As if Chrifts flefh and blood could be in a mans body without his benefit: When he hath promifed that he that eateth him, fiiall live by him. Yet fee the meafures of their faith and Church : Saith Aquinas (3. q. 80. a. 3. adz.) [Vnlefs perhaps an In-fidel intend to Receive that which the Church giveth, though he have not true faith about other Art teles or about this Sacrament ~] then he may receive facramen-rally.

CHAP.

(H7)

CHAP. VI.

The fourth <tArg ument. This Mir aculo hs Tranfubftan-tiation is expre fly contrary to the Word ofGod, in Scripture*

-&&' 4* TpHe Papifts fay that there is no bread after X the words or Confecration : Gods word faith, There is Bread after the Confecration : Therefore the Papifts fpeak contrary to the Word of God.

I. In i Cor, i i. It is called exprefly BREAD after confecration no Iefs than three times in three verfes together, 26) 27, 28. £ cc For as oft as ye eat this Bread M and Drinks this cup y ye fljcw the Lords death till he <c come, Wherefore whofoever frail cat this Bread and ic drink this cup of the Lord unworthily frail he guilty of Ci the Body and blood of the Lord, But let a man exa~ iC mine himfelf and fo let him eat of that Bread and. drinks of that £up 3 •* Here they that call for exprefs words of Scripture for our doftrine, without our con-fequences, may fee their own faith exprelly contradi&ed, and ouroppofition juftified : The Holy Ghoft here ex-prefly czUeih it Bread: And yet no exprefnefs nor evidence will fatisfie them.

P f By Bread is meant that which was Bread before, or elfe that which nourifruth the foul as Bread doth the, body : And fo it is metonymically only called Bread, as Chrifts Flefti is called Bread in J oh, 6.

R, Why then do you call for exprefs texts of Scripture as our proof, when that exprefnefs fignifleth nothing with you •, but you can fay, It is a metonymie or a metaphor at your pleafure. But you fay fo againft notorious Evidence ; The Apoftle calleth it Bread fo

often over and over, as if he had forefeen your inhumane herefie : He calleth it The Bread which u to he Eat en j joyned with Drinking the fop -, never once- calling either of them the Flcfti or Blood of Chrift, but as he recketh Chrifts words which he expoundeth. Yea he tellech us that eating this bread, and drinking this cup, is to Jlicw the Lords death till he cor.ie j where he calleth us to look back at Chrifts death aspaft, in our Commemoration, and to loo\ forward to his perfonal coming as future 5 but never telleth us that we muft kill Chrift and eat him our felves (' when we have made him), nor that his body is there prefent under the accidents of Bread and Wine;

But the reft of the Scriptures as exprefly juftifie our do Anne, i Cor. 10. 15. The Cup of bleffmg which we b'ujs, is it not the Communion ( or Communication ) of the blood of fiorift : And the Bread which we breaks, i> it not the communion for participation ) of the body of Chrift ? J Here it is the £up and the Bread after Confederation, if the Holy Ghoft may be believed.

And in the next words the Apoitle repeateth it in his reafon \For we being Many are One Bread, and One Body \ For we all partake of one Bread ( or Loaf). ] "Is not here exprefs proof?

So At'h 20. 7. When we came together to break*

Bread And v. 11. He afcending, and break?

ing bread, and eating &c. Here it is twice more called 'jf?mrdTaf:er the Qo-nfecration (which ever went before the Breaking J.

So Act. 2.42, 46. It is twice more called Breaking cf Bread.

And whatelfe can the recitation of Chrifts inftitution mean, 1 Cor. 11. ijL 24. Pancm accept(ft, f re gi§e -, to have taken Bread, and hiving given thankj, to have broken ? What is it that he brake f \ti fcori-ienCe if it

h ive

( "P)

have no accufative cafe that it refpeds ? And plai n Grammatical conftrudion tells us then, that it muft be that before mentioned, What he Took*, he bleffed y and brake and gave : But he tool^. Bread and the Cup . The fame is in Mat. 26, 26, 27. and the other Evangelifts.

II. The Scriptures expreily ( Acl.z^&c.) make the Killing of fortfl^ and drawing his blood, to be the hey-nous fin of the Jews, for which fome Repented and others were call: off: Therefore it is not to be believed that Chrift did firft kJM or tear himfelf^ and JW his own blood ^ or that his diiciples did kill him, or tear his fiefh and fried his blood, before the Jews did it. And if they tore his flefh and drank his blocd, and yet killed him not, the event altered not the fad 1 The Jews did but break, his flejh and floed his blood. If you fly to a good intention^ Paul will come in for fome further ex-cufc for his perfecution.

III. 1 Cor. 10. 21. Te cannot drink* the cup of the Lord, and the cup of Devils: Te cannot be partakers of the Lords table and of the table of Devils* — Here note 1. That the fame phrafe is ufed of the Participation of the Lords myftzrks and the Devils, But it was not the flefh and blood or the fubflance of Devils which the Idolaters ever intended to partake of: but only their facrifices,

2. It is here called only the Table and the Cup, and not the flejl) and the blood.

"3. It is faid that They could not partake of both : whereas according to the Papifts doctrine, if a man fhould partake of the Idols facrifce in the morning, and of the Lords Table in the evening ( without repentance, ) he fhould really partake of Q)rifls own flefh and blood • which the Text faith cannot be done.

P, It meaneth only, You cannot Lawfully, or you I 4 ought;

ought not to partake of both, but not that it is impojfible or never dene.

R. No doubt but it meaneih that They ought not, or cannot Lawfully-^ but thats no: all : The text plainly meaneth, Ton cannot have communion with both: You may take the bread and wine at your peril t but you can-pot partake of it as a facramental feafi which God prepared you, and fo partake of Chrift iherein.

And the fame is faid ( expounding this) 2Cor.6.i5;.

What concord hath Chrifi with Belial * and what

agreement hath the temple of God with Idols . ? J Intimating that Communion with God and Idols, Chrift and Belial, are ( fo far) inconfiftent :• But by the Papifts do&rine an Idolater and Son of Belial may partake of the very fubflance of Chrifts body and blood, into his fody> as verily as he partaketh of his meat and drink.

IV. The Scripture teacheth us exprefly to judg.e of fenfible things by fenfe. Luk, 24. 39. [_Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I my felf : handle me, and fee ■ for'a fpirit hath not fleflj and bones as ye fee ml have* And when he had thus fpok*n, he foewed them his hands ■ and his feet ^\ And v. 43, \he dideat before thcm~] to confirm their faith. But they could have no more fenfible evidence of any of this, than we have of the being of Bread and Wine, or fome fenfible fubftance after Confecraiion. Joh. 2. 9. they taftedthe water turned into Wine, and were convinced.

P, But the Body of Chrift here is not a fenfible thing. R. But Bread and Wine are frnfible things. P. BuiTheyare not There \ and fo are no objeds of fenfe.

#. But all our fenfes fay that They are there ^ and by them we muft judge.

P. Your fenfes perceive nothing but Accidents : and your understanding mnfl believe Qod, and io (as you

noted

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notedoqt of Aquinas before) there is no deceit either of fenfe or Intellect.

R, Though this be anfwered fully before, I will again tell you, That thefe two notorious falihoods are all that you have to fay againft Humanity in this cafe, thats worth the noting. I. Itisfalfethat you fay that fenfe perceiveth not fubfiance ; When I take up a ftatf or ftone in my hand, I do not only feel Roughnefs or Smooihnefs, &c, but a. fubfiance : It is a quantitative, and qualitative fubftance, which I feel, talte, fmell, fee and hear : And this I perceive by fenfation it felf, as the medium to the Intellect, It is not the fenfe indeed, but the Intellect that giverh it the Logical notion or definition of zfubftancc ^ but it is the fenfe it felf that by fenfation perceivetb it •, and to deny this is to deny all fenfe. And if it were not fo, How could any finch fubfiance be known ? when it cannot come into the Intellect but by the fenfe ?

11, fly* Your great cheat ( or errour ) is by confounding the firft and natural-necefiary perception of a fenfibile ftnjalum or incomplex objeti^ by the Intellect, with the fecond conception of the Names of things, or of Organical fecond notions, and the third conception of them Artificially by the ufe of thefe names and Organical notions, and the fourth perception of Confequents from thole conceptions. To know by Believing is but the third or fourth fort of knowledge, and prefup-pofeth the two firft. If a man had never heard a name or word in his life ^ yet by fenfation as foon as he faw, fmelt, tafted, heard, handled things, his Inteflctl would have had a pe rception oftheTbing it felf as it was;'fen fate ^ And this is the Intellects firft perception : And this is it which falleth under our queftion, Whether the Intellect in thii fir ft perception of a fub fiance or Thing as fenfate, be deceived or not, when the Thing harh the Conditions

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of an object before mentioned. 2. Next this we learn or invent Names and organic al notions for things: And whether thefe be true or falfe, and whether they be apt or inept is all one. This is but an arbitrary work of art. 3. Next this we conceive of things by the Means of thefe Names and fccond notions, and examine the Congruence: and fo we define them : And this is bu: a work of .Artificial Reafo?;ing, and prefuppofeth the firft ■Natural neccjfary perception. Now Faith belongeth partly to this, and partly to the fourth, which is The railing of Conclufions, and the weaving of methods ; and prefuppofeth the firft, yea and the fecond : It is but an aflent given by the means of an Extrinfick Teftimony of God, that this particular Word is True, &c. Now if the Intellect in its firft Perception ( natural and ne~ ceffary ) of the Thing it [elf, as fenfate, be deceived, if faith fhould be contrary to it, 1 .It muft be fuch a Faith which is the immediate contrary perception of a fen fate obje'Ci 5 which is no faith , nor is any luch poilible, f properly called faith ) : 2. And if faith can come after and undeceive the Intellect, by faying that God faith otherwife, yet this would be no prevention of its deception, but a cure, prefuppofing the faid deception as the di-feafe to be cured. So that to fay as Aquinas thar faith preventeth the deceit of the JnteHeEi, is a faIfhood contrary to the nature of man, and his natural way of acting, as he is compofed of foul and body.

I have faid this over again, left errour get advantage by the brevity and unobfervednefs of that which I faid before.

CHAP

("3)

CHAP. VII.

Argum. 5. All thefe miracles have not the leaft proofs yea> the Scriptures fully dlretl its to a crofs interpretation of the Papijh pretended proofs 5 which alfo are renounced by themfelves.

I Know cf no Scripture proof in the World that the Papifts pretend to, but the words, This is my Body, and This is my Bloody and fuch like. And that thefe are no proof I (hall fully prove to any impartial man.

I. The very nature of the Sacrament inftitured by Chrift with his expreffed End, command our Reafon to expound the word ["is] of fignijication^ reprefenta-

J tion Or exhibition, and the word [Body] and [Blood] of a new Relative form only, that is, of a body and

: blood Reprefentative, ( which is all one in effect ) : As a

] piece of Gold, Silver, or Brafs, is by the law and ftamp turned really into the Kings Current Coine •> and fo hath

; a new Relative form: fo that ycu may truly fay that there is a change made of the Gold, or Silver into the Kings Coyn : and it is no more to be called meer Gold or Silver ( though it be Gold and Silver frill), becaufe the form denominated, and the new form is now that in queftion which mull denominate. Or as a Prince that is marryed in effigie or by a Reprefentative to a woman, is not there perfonally •, and yet it is aptly faid, This is the Prince which is betrothed or marryed to thee* Of as we fay of Pi&ures, This is Peter, or Paul, cr John. Or as when we deliver a man poflTeflion of a

Ho ufe

(124J

Ho fife by a Key, or of Land by a tmg and a turf 7 or of a Qmirch by the be trope, &c. and fay, Take, this is f*ch a Ho fife, or finch a piece of Land, or Church, &c. As this is ordinary intelligible (peech among all men, fo Chrift tells them that he would be founderftood.

1. In that his Real natural body fpaks this, of the Bread and Wirte which was wr his natural body : His real na ural body was prefent, vilible, entire, unwound-ed, his blood unipilt, and did eat and drink (the other, as the Papifts hold, as being the fume ) : And can any living man imagine that the Difciples who underftood not his Death, Refurre&ion, Afcenfion, &c. yet underftood by thefe four words, when th y faw Chrifts body alive and pre&nt, that this Bread and Wine was that fame Body and Blood, without any more quelli-oning ?

2. In that he bids them, Do this in Remembrance cf him . which plainly fpeaketh a commemorating llgn : Who will fay at his Iaft farewell when he is parting with his friends, / will flay among you, or keep me among you, in Remeyy.br ance of me ? So for Chrift to fay, Jiat me in remembrance of ?fce,were flrange.

11. It may put all out of Controverfie to find, that Chrifts words of one half cfthe Sacran.cnt arc (as they confefs) figurative •, therefore the other mull be lo judged alio. Luk, 22. 20. This (fiup is the new Teftament in my blood, which is filled for you : I Cor. 11.25, [This Cup is the new Tvflament in my blood,^} And here no man denyeth a double Trope at leaffc: no man expounded it, that the Cup or tlie Wine \\\v: the New Teftament it J'elf And yet it is as expreily laid, as it is that the $rea4i$ the Body it (elf. How men will they prove that ont is fpoken properly, and the other figuratively?

HI, There

III. There is no more found in thele words to a flirt the Br tad to be Chrijls Body , than is found in a multitude of fuch phrafes in Scripture aliening things which all men expound othtrwife. As in Joh. 15.1. / km the Vine and my Father U the hnsbayidman : Joh. 10.7, 9.

t am the door Joh. 10. 14. I am the good Shepherd

and know my Sheep : Pfal. 22. 6. 1 am a worm and no man ( which being a propheiie of Chrift, a Heretick imitating you, might deny Chrifts humanity :) 1 Cor.10.4.

That Rock^was Chrift 1 Cor. 12. 27. Te are the

body of Chrift - Mat. 5. 13, 14. Te are the Salt of the

earth: Te are the lights of the World Joh. 6. 63.

The words that I Jpeak^ unto you they are fpirit and they are Life. Abundance fuch are in the Scripture, as Alifiefh is grafs: Chrift is the Lamb of God : the Lyon of the Tribe of Jnda ^ the bright Morning Star ^ the head Corner Stone, ®>c.

And it is yet more fully fatisfa&ory, that the Hebrew conftantly putteth [_is J for [fignifieth] as you may find in all the old Teftament •, having no other word fo fit to exprefs \_figntfying ~] by : And as Chrift fpake after that manner, fo the New Teftament ordinarily imi-tateth •, As DamelzxA the Revelation agree in faying, of the Virions, This is fuch or fuch a thing, inflead of this fignifieth ir. So Chrift, aj^atth. 13, 21, 22, 2 3> 17•> 38, 39. He that foweth is the Son of man : the field is the world : the good feed are the Children of the Kingdom ; the tares are the children of the wicked one : the enemy is the Devil, the Harveft:

is the end. The reapers are the Angels And

thus ordinarily..

I V. Yea, the fame kind of phrafe ufed before in the PafTeover, teacheth us how to expound this : Excd. 12. II. Te frail eat it in hafte^ It is the Lords

PafftQZ'tr —

Paffcover verf. 27. It is the facrifice of the Lords

Pajfeover.

V. Yea the ordinary way and fhrafe of Chrifts teaching may yet farther put us out of doubt. For he ufually taught by Parables, and exprefTeth his fenfe by fuch afTertions : As Matth. 13. 3. Behold afowerwent out to fow, &c. Luk. 15. 11, 12. A certain man had two fans, and the younger fiid, &c. Luk. 12.16. The ground of a certain Rich man, &c. Luk. 16. 19. There was a certain Rich man, &c. Mat. 21. 28. A certain man had two fons 7 &c. Verf. 33. There was a certain houflwlder which planted a Vineyard, &c. The Gofpel aboundeth with fuch inftances, which teach us how to interpret thefe words of Chrift.

V I. But mod certainly all thofe forementioned texts teach it us, which expreily call it Bread after the Con-fecration. If we will not believe the Holy Ghoft him-fjlf, who fo frequently calleth it bread, it is in vain to alledge any text of Scripture in the Controverfie.

Now to feign a courfe of ordinary Miracles^ Greater and more than Chrifts, and this to every Prieft, how ignorant and impious foever ^ to pretend that every Pope and Bifhop can for money fell the Holy Ghoft or the Gift of Miracles, in Ordination -, and all this when no eye feeth the Miracles, when it is con-feffed .that Angels cannot naturally fee it, yea when all mens fenfes perceive the contrary ; and all this becaufe, that Chrift faid This is my Body, while abundance fuch fayings in Scripture, yea the words about the Cup it felf, are confeffed to be tropical, and when the Scripture exprefly telleth us that there is 'Bread. Judge whether it be poftible for Satan to have put a greater fcorn upon the Chriftian faith, or a greater fcandal before the enemies of it, or a greater hindcrance

to

/to the Worlds Convention, than to tell them, you mud renounce not only your Humanity but all common fenfe, if you will be Cnriftians, and be faved, or fuffered to enjoy your eftates and lives.

VII. Laftly, It is ordinary with their fubtileft Schoolmen to confefs that this their do&rine of Tran-fubftantiation cannot be proved from Scripture, and that they believe it only becaufe their Church faith it y which mull be believed, and becaufe that by the fame ffirit which wrote the Scripture, the Church u taught thus to expound it. So that all their faith of this is by them refolved into a phanatick pretence of Infpra-tion -, As I have elfewhere (hewed cut of "Durandus^ Talndamts> Scotus y Oc^am, Quodl.6. li,$. q. $i.Rada vol. 4. Cont.-j.a. 1. fag* 164,165.

And no General Council ever determined it till that at Row, under Inncc. 3. Where faith Matth. 'Taru^ many decrees were propofed or brought in by the Pope which fome liked and fome difliked. And this was 1215 years afcer Chrifts birth. And Stephantu <s£-duenfis is the firft in whom the name of Tranfubftantia-tion is found, about the year 1100.

CHAP,

(123)

CHAP. VIII.

Arg. 6. From the Nature of a Sacrament*

Arg.6. HP Hat Doftrine which by confequencede-Jl nyeth the Lords Supper to be a true Sacrament, isfalfe.

The Papifts do&rine of Tranfubftantiation by confequence denyeth the Lords vSupper to be a true Sacrament : Therefore the Papifts do&rine of Tranfut> flantiation is falfe.

The Major I know no man that will deny that we have now to deal with.

The Minor needeth no other proof, than the common definition of a Sacrament, and Chrifts own defcription of this Sacrament in the Scripture.

I. Aquino* concludeth 3. q. 60. a. t. that a Sacra-mem is a fign • and a t 2. that it is a fign of a thing facred as it fan&ifleth men •. and d.3. that it is a Rememorative fign of Chrifts paifion, a demonftrative fign of Gods Grace, and a prognofticating fign of future Glory: And a. 4. that it muft be Res fenfibilis a fenfible things it being natural to man to come to the knowledge of things intelligible by things fenfible, and the Sacrament fignifieth to man fpiritual and intelligible Goods : and a. 5. that they muft be thing's of Divine determination, &c*

But, 1. If the Bread and Wine be gone, there isno-

thing left to be ay?^-;/, a Real fenfible fign, to lead us

-to the knowledge of fpiritual and intelligible things.

If they fay that the fpecies of Bread and Wine is the

fenfible fign , what mean they by that cheating word

r '/peeks n

\_fpecies?~\ Not the Specifying form or matter, but only the outriard appearance. And is it a true or a falfe appearance ? If True, then there is Bread arid Wine.* ii falfe , it is a falfe fign : And what is that falfe appearance which God maketh a Sacrament of > It is plainly nothing but 'the Accidents of Bread and Wine without the fubftance. But, i. When they take the Gup from the Laity, and deny them half the Sacrament, fure there are then no Accidents of Wine. Is there either Quantity, Colour, Smell, Tafle, &c. of Wine? They will not fay ic. So that here is no fenfible fign as to one half.

2i And herein they deal far more inhumanely with us than the Infidels themfelves : For when they plead againft Chrift and Scripture, they grant that the com* mon principles and NotitU , which all mankind acknowledge , are the certain unqueftionabie light of No- ** W ™T■ Rea f cn f f or th l

1 J « i ii •// j Christian Religion, and the Lord

tare. But the Papifts deny Herbert de nutate. not only the Notitias com-

munes, but common fenfe. It is nothing with them to damn all the world, that will not believe contradictions. They fay that the Quantity of Nothing endued with the (sualities>t\\e Attions, tht Taffion, the Relations , the quando^ubi, fit us o£ nothing, is the Sacramental fign. Inhumane contradiction I i. Gaffendm and others fay truly, that an Accident is not properly Res, but Modus Rei y (vel i?/^/;taJ,as he calleth it.) z.Quan-tity doth not Really differ a re quanta : and to fay, Q The Lengthy Breadth, Profundity of Nothing ] is a notorious contradiction; And fo it is of the other Accidents. There is no Real fenfible fign> and therefore no Sacrament, where there is nothing, but the quantity, colour, tafie, fine 11, &c. of Nothing.

3, And they cannot, thev dare not fay, that Chrifts K Real

Real Flefh and Blood, is the Sacramental fign: For, i. It is not fenfible ; 2. It fhould be then the fign of it felf: The fign and the thing fignified cannot be the fame.

II. The very fubflantiality or corporeity of the Bread 2nd Wine as fuck, is part of the fign: As Chrift faith, Behold and handle me, a ffirit hath not flefii and bloody as ye fee mehave : So he taketh Cor fore al bread and wine in their fight, and breadth it, and poureth it cut, and giveth it them to fee, to feel, to tafte, to eat, that they may know it is true bread a?id wine , the figns of his True Body and Blood. So that to deny the Corporeity is to deny Chrifis Corporeity in its figns -, and tendethtothe old Herefie of them that held that Chrift had but a phantafiical body, or was not indeed Crucified, but feemcd fo to be: They teach Hereticks to argue, The fign was no Real fubfiance: Therefore neither the thing fignified.

III. The nutritive ufe of the bread and wine was another part of the fign, as all confefs : As bread and wine are the Nutriment of the body and life of man, fo is Chrift crucified meritorioufly, and Chrifl glorified efficiently, the life of the foul. And he that denyeth the Nutritive fign, denyeth the Sacrament: But it is not the falfe appearance, or phantafm, or accidents of bread and wine, that are the natural nourijhers of mm : Therefore he that denyeth the nourifliing fubfiance , denyeth the Real fenfible Sacramental fign.

Saith Bellarmin de Euchar. /. 3. c. 23. \_ln the Eu-charifi we receive not corporal food that the flefii may be thence nouriflied and made fat : but only to fignifie inward refeBion.^\ So that he acknowledged this to be part of the Sacramental fign. So Gregor. Valent. faith that \_The chief and cjfential fignifieation of this Sacrament is that which by external nourishment_is

fignified

fignifed, the internal fpiritual refetlion of the foul by the body cfChrift. ] So that denying the nouriflnng fign is deftroying the eifence of the Sacrament.

I V. The breaking of the Bread and pouring out the Wine is confeiTedly another part of the Sacramental fen-fible fign. Bur, i. When there is no Wine, there is no pouring it out : 2. And if there be no Bread neither, there is no breaking it: Can that be broken which is not ? They that deny ( as the Papifts do ) that the Bread is broken ( faying that only the Quantity of Nothing is broken ) deny the fenfible Sacramental fign.

And here I may note, that we do not well to contend with them for denying the Cup only to the Laky, and granting them only the Bread, when indeed they grant neither, but deny them both : There is ( fay they^ no more Bread than Wine 0 but only a falfe appearance of it.

V. Laftly, TheApoftle i Cor. 10. 16, 17. fheweth that one Sacramental ufe of the Bread was to fignifie the Vnity ofChriftians, who are one Bread, and one Body, as one Loaf is made of many Corns. But that cannot be One, which is Nothing: E?is^ Vmm & Verum convertuntur. To fay with Greg. VatenP. and Bellarmine , that becaufe it was Once bread, and one bread, therefore the accidents of it remaining now fignifie that we are one bread • is but to fay, that There was once a fit fign, but then there wanted the form ; Now after Confecration, there is no Sacramental fign, but yet there is a Sacramental form : And in what Matter is that form ? Doubtlefs it can be no where but in the Brain or Mind of man : That is, man can Remember that once he faw Bread : This is the fpecies of bread in his Intellect : This fpecies is the pan : And fo we have found out another fenfe of the jpecies of bread , than many think on • viz. It is that which is called Thefpe-

K 2 ties

ties intentionalis^ or the Idea or conception of bread in a mans fantajie and mind : And fo indeed the Sacrament is with them an invifible thing : for it is only in mens minds: There is no Sacrament on the Altar , but in the thoughts: And fo who hath a Sacrament, and who not, we know not -. And a man may by thinking make a Sacrament when he will.

>■■'■ . ' M l. — I , ■ ■ II

CHAP. IX.

Of the Novelty of TranfMantiation.

R $ T Once thought to have next proved out of the A Current of Antiquity, the Novelty of this inhu-mane doctrine of the Papifts, and that the Antients commonly confefTed , that there was true Bread and Wine remaining in the Sacrament afcer Confecration : But, i. I mould but temp and weary ordinary Readers, who neither need any fuch arguments ( having Senfe and Scripture to give them fatisfa&ion ) nor are able to try them : For it is an indirect kind of dealing, to expect that the unlearned, or thofe that are ftrangers to the Writings of the Antients, mould believe this or that to be their mind and fayings , meerly becaufe I tell themfo. And if they read the plained words, they know not whether I rightly recite them, but by believing me. And it is as unreafonable on the other fide, that the Papiits mould expect, either by their Citations or their general Affirmations, that the Readers mould believe them, that the Antients were for Tranfubftantiation. Till men can both read the Authors themfelves, and try the Copies, they can have no fure hiftorical notice what the Fathers held , except by

the

(in)

the common confent of credible Reporters or Hiftori-ans: Not while one fide faith, they fay this, and the other fide faith they fay thecontrary,and yet their Books are to be feen by all. We may bid them believe «/,and the Papifts may bid them believe them, and a Prieft may cheat them by faying, that his word is the Churches : But though this will produce a humane belief in the Hearers or Readers, as by advantages it is moll taking with them, yet that fallible belief is all the Certainty that it can afford them. Therefore I think it moil ingenuous and reafonable to give men fuch argu-i ments as they are capable of underftanding and improving to certain fatisfa&ion.

2. Becaufe they that can ftudy fuch Authors as have gathered the fentences of the Amients in this Contro-verfie, may find it fo fully done by Edmund. Albertinus ?n his fecond Book, that they can need no more.

P. You know that Albertinus is anfwered.

R. And I know that he is again Defended : And who doubreth but you.can anfwer me copioudy, if I did maintain that the Sun giveth light: What is it that a man cannot talk for ? efpecially they that can hope to perfwade all the Chriftian world, that they rauft be damned, unlefs they will believe that all mens fenfes are deceived, and that God is the great Deceiver of the world.

P. But how can you think to pleafe God and be faved, if you be not of the fame faith as the Church hath alwayes been of ? All the antient Fathers and Catholick Church were for Tranfubftantiation; and are you wifer and in a fafer way than they ?

R. You have loft your credit with me fo far, as that your word is no oracle to me ; If I mud not believe my own nor other mens fenfes^ I am not bound to believe you : at lead when I know you fpeak falflv.

K 3 Buc

But I pray tell me, How know you that the Church and Fathers did io believe ?

P. Becaufe the prefent Church faith fo^ which cannot err.

R* Do not your own Writers fay, that a General Council and Pope may err in matter of fad: ? and that they did fo in Condemning Pope Honor int and in other Cafes ?

P. Yes : but this is a matter of faith. R. Is knot a matter of fad, what this or that man faid, and what dodrine the Church at fuch a time did teach and hold ?

But how know you that the prefent Church doth fay fo, that this was the faith of the antient Church ? P. By their teftimony in a General Council. R. Did you hear the Council fay fo ? P. No: but the Church tellethme that the Council faid fo.

R. Who is it that you now call the Church which tells you fo ?

P. My Superiours, who have it from the Pope, and their Fathers.

R. Are your Superiours that told you fo,the Church > Or is the Pope the Church ? If fo, What need you fay a Council is the Church ? And how know you that the Pope and your Superiours err not in a matter of fad ?

P. I know it by the Decrees of the Council yet extant.

R. i. But if fenfe be deceitful , how know you that you ever read fuch Decrees ? 2. How know you that they are not forgeries, or fince corrupted ?

P. The Church is a faie keeper of its own Records.

A Still

/'

R. Still what mean you by the Church ? The Vulgar -either keep nor under ftand your Councils. The Council of Trent is long ceafed : No other General Counc.i hath been fince, to tell you what are the true Decrees of that Council. The Pope is not the Church : And he may err in amauer of tad : What then is the Church that tells you certainly what the Council of Trent decreed ? Tell me if you can.

P. We have fuch common hiftorical Evidence and Tradition, as you have for your Ads of Parliament when the Parliament is ended. The prefent Gover-nours preferve them.

R. Very good: It is the Office of the Governours to take that Care, but therein they are not indefedible and infallible . but they and the pub>lifhedLaws, and the notice of the whole Land, and the Judicial proceedings by them in the Courts of judicature make uo a Certain flifiorical Evidence. And fo it mav be in your Cafe : And when you have talkt your utmoft, you can fhew no more. And have not we the fame Writings of Fathers and Councils as you have ? You dare not deny it. Why then may not we know what is in them as well as you ? And I pray you tell me, Whether your Antiquaries, fuch as Albafpin&us, Sixtus Senenfis,Vetavius, Sirmondus,&c, do prove what Cyprian, Optatns, An-gufiine, &c. held, by the judgement of the Pope or Councils, or by citing the words of the Authors them-felves ? And do C ra ^-> Binnim^ Surius, fitranza, &c. prove what one Council faid by the authority of another, or by the Records themfelves, yet vifible to all ?

P. Thofe Records themfelves, even the vifible Writings of the Fathers and Councils are for Tranfub-ftantiation.

R, Till you have perfwaded tfie out of my fenfes, I will not believe you, I pray you tell me if you can of

K 4 any

any Author or Council that ever ufed the name £ Tranfubftantiarion ] before Stephanus <^£duenfo after the year i ioo, de Sacram. <*Aitar. c. 13.

P. Though the name be new, the Doctrine is not.

R. Tell'me next, what General Council did ever determine it, before the Council of Lateranc under ln-noc. 3. an, 1215.

P. Not exprefly : for General Councils need not mention it, till the Albigenfes Hereticks gave them oc-cafion by denying it,

R. Was it an Article of faith before ? If it were, either the Councils are not the meafure of your faith, or it is very mutable.

P. Among all your qucftionings anfwer me this que-ftion if you can.Tf that General Council decreed Tranfubftantiarion, what could move them fo to do, if it were not the faith of the Church before ? Were they not all of the fame mind the day before they did it ? and fo the day before that, and the day before that, &c. Or do you think that they were againft Tranfubftantiation the night before, and awaked all of another mind the next morning ? What could make all the Paftors of the Church think that this was the true faith, if they did not think it was the antient faith ? And whac could make them think it the antient faith, if it were not fo? Did not they know what their Fathers held ? And did not their Father? know what their Fathers held I The fame I fay of the Council ofTrept alfo,

R. Thus men that mull not believe the common fenfe of mankind, can believe the dreaming conjectures of their brains,and {it in a corner, and thence tell the world what can and what cannot be done by publick afTemblies, at many hundred years and miles difiance. Who would not laugh at a Fryer, that in his Ceil would tell by moral conjectures, all the tnoughts and motions of an Army *'''•" cr

/ or Navy, that never faw them, and contrary to the experience of tbofe that were on the ground and interefled in their Councils and a&ions, Obferve how many falfe fuppofitions go to make up your cheats.

1. You fuppofe this a true General Council , which is a pack of factious Prelates fubjed to the Pope, and affembled at Rome in his own Palace,under the awe of his prefenceand power. And as if thefmall number after at Trent had fpake the minds of all the Churches,

2. You fuppofe all the members of a Council to be of. one mind,: when as they determine by the Major Vote. And oft times the difference is not above type or three, and its poflible one Voice may turn the fcales: And perhaps one, or two , or ten may be abfent one day, and prefent another, and fo the Cry of £ the Judgement of all the Bijhops in the world J may figniiie no more, but that two or three of the other fide ftaid a little too long at dinner that day, while the other party carryed it by their abfence. And I pray you where hath God promifed, that the faith of an hundred and one (hall not fail, when the faith of ninety nine of the fame company may fail ffuppofing the Council to be two hundred )\ Or why are the one hundred and one the Bifhops of all the world, and not the ninety nine ?

3. Do you think we never read the Hiftory of the Council of Trent ? and before them, of the Councils of Ariminum^ Ephef 2, yea, Calcedon , &c. ? And yet muft we fuppofe, that men come thither all of one mind ? when they have fuch fliameful Contentions ? Such cunning contrivances to get the majority of Votes ? Such awe and terror from the power of the Chief? and fuch carnal dependances and refpe&s to their feve-rai wprldly interefts? Yea, fometimes fighting it cut

| unto blood ( as Diofcoms and Flqyianm cafe doth fhamefully evince? )

4. And

4- And muft we fuppofc mens minds to be changed in their Jleep , when the awe or the oratory of other men change them ? Do we not know the Courfe of the Parliaments of England of later times ? How much a few men of more than ordinary parts and intereft, can do with the reft ? And how oft the major Vote hath gone againft the fenfe of the far greater number of the Houfe ?

5. And do we not know, that ordinarily he that is fent to the Council from a Province, is chofen as it pleaf-eih the Pope, the King, or the Archbifhop, or fomc in greateft power ; and rarely according to the free-will and fenfe of the greater part of the Clergy. If five hundred to one of the Clergy of a Kingdom be of one mind, and the Prince, or chief men, or powerfulleft Prelatcs be of another, they will fend a Bifhop thither of their own mind.

6. Do you think we know not that all the Papifts are not paftthe third or fourth part of the Chriftian world? -Why then fhould their fenfe be called the fenfe of all the Chriftian world ?

7. Do you think we know not how little reafon you have to fay, that the Council at Laterane fpake the fenfe of all the Church ? When the Decrees were but proposed by Pope Innocent ', and recited there without any due Syraodical deliberation, and fome liked them, and fome diiliked them ? as you may find in Math. Vans mK.John^NaHclcrusGener. 41. ad an, 1215, Gode-fridm ad an. 1215. Platina in Vita Innoc. 3. And this one of your late falfe Scriblers in a Book for Toleration alfo faith ♦, Though the Difputers againft ■IJr. Gunning and Dr. Tier [on copioufly and confidently juftifie that Council: and indeed with you it paffethfor an Approved one.

8, And

8. And were not your arguing as ftrong for the Council of Epbef. 2. and that at aArim. and Sirmium, and divers at Conftanttnople difallowed , and thofe at C»?iflance and JBajil, ( where were many times the number of the Council at Trent) ? Did thefe Councils all go to bed of one mind, and rife of another? Or did they not know what their Fathers faith was ? Why then do you reprobate them, and deny that which they decreed as"of faith ? Is it not a fhame, to talk of \_the Bijbops of all the world ~\ and [_ Tradition from their fathers J when your meaning is but that All thefe may err, and do oft err^ unlefs one man> the Pope approve them } But where fenfe is renounced, we mufl not ex-peel modefty.

P. But the antient Councils and Fathers are againft: you, as is to be feen.

JR. It is utterly falfe : I will not abufe the Reader fo as to carry him into a Wood, and lofe him among a multitude cf old Books, when he hath more fatisfa&ory evidence enough at hand.

But, I. As to all your Citations from true antiquity ( for your forged Authors and corrupted Teftimonies we regard not ) they are anfwered by this one true obfervation, that when old Writers fometimes fay, that after confecration it is £ No more bread and wine, but the body and blood of Chrift ], their whole Context plainly (heweth,that they mean that it is no more MEER or Common Bread and Wine ^ and ufually they fo fpeak. Becaufe forma denominate and it is the ultimate form that denominateth, all antecedent forms being but the difpoftio materia. As if the queftion be , Whether a Shilling be Silver or Money f Before the Coining, k was but Silver ; but after, it is no more Common Silver ? but Money: Silver is but the matter , and not the denominating form, Is your Garment to be called Cloth,

or

or a fi 9a k. ? Before the making it was but Cloth, but now it is not meer Cloth, but a Cloaks The fame I may fay of the Kings Crown and Scepter, or of any Relative , Reprcfentative or Perforating form that is added to any matter or man. This is the plain meaning of the Antients.

11. And as to what they fay againft you, I will now only give you a few brief inftances.

i.Jufiin Martyr, in Dial, cumTryph, faith, [_The offering of Flower delivered to be offered for them that were cleanfed of the Leprofie, was a Type of the PRE AD of the Eucharift which our Lord fefus ftrift commanded us to makj in remembrance of his paffton, dec. ]

And more plainly Apolog. 2. ( indeed the firft ) £ When the Prtfident hath given thanks, and all the people acclaimed^ thofe that with us are caHcd Deacons, diftribute to every one prefent BREAD and WINE and Water y and bring them to thofe that are abfent. ]

2, Iren&HS faith lib, 4. c. 34, [For as the Bread which is of the fiarth receiving the divine invocation, is not now Common Bread, but the Eucharift, confefiing of two things, theTerrene and the Celeftial, &c. J

See more out of him in Albertinus, at large.

l.Tcrtullian cont, Marcion I. 3. c, 19. [Calling Bread his Body, that hence you may underft and that he gave to Bread the Figure of his body, ~\

And before /. 1. [_ He reprobated not — £rcad,

by which he Rcprefentech his very Body. ~\

And lib. 4. cap. 40. \_ The Bread which he took^ and difiributcd to his Difciples he made his body, faying.

This is my Body j that is, The figure of my body,

*s4nd what he would have Bread then fig nifie , he fuffi-ciently declared, calling Bread his Body.2

And

(*40

And it Is a notable paflage of Tertullians againft the Academicks that queftioned fenfe , lib, de amm. c. 17. [ What doft thou , O procacious Academic!^ ? Thou ruerthroweft the whole ftate of life : Thou difturbeft the whole order of nature ; Thou bltndeft the providence tf God himfelf ; as if he had made mens lying and deceitful fenfes to be the Lords, in under ft anding, ho-nouring-, difpenftng and enjoying all his works : Is not the whole Condition ( of minj fubadminiftred by thefe,~\ And after [ We may not call thofe fenfes into queftion, left Chrift himfelf muft deliberate of their certainty ( or muft diftruft them ), Left it may be faid y that he falfty faw Satan caft down from Heaven , or falfty heard the voyce of his Father teftifying of him -, or was

deceived when he touched Ptters Wives Mother

or perceived not a true tafte of the Wine which he Con-fccrated in the memorial of his blood, J Many fuch places are in Tertullian.

4. Origen is large and plain to the fame purpofe in Matth.25. calling it [Bread and a Typical and Symbolical Body, which profiteth none but the worthy receivers, and that according to the proportion of their faith y and which no wicked man doth eat, &c. ] Many more fuch places Albertinus vindicateth. •

5.CypriansEpiftk to Magnm is too large this way to be recited* As [" Even the Sacrifices of the Lord declare the Qiriftian Vnanimity, connexed by firm and infeparable love: For when the Lord calleth Bread his body ( or his body bread ) made up of many united j grain*, &c. And when he calleth the Wine his Bloody I &c. ~\ So Epift. ad CiciU

6. EufebiusC<cfar. demonftr. Evang, I. i.e. 10. £ Ce-[ lebrating daily the memorial of the body and blood of

Chrift L _J [Seeing then we receive the memorial of

this Sacrifice to be perfected on the Table •, by the [yrn-

bols

boh of his body and mo ft precious blood ] And

/. 8* \_He delivered to us to ufe, Bread as the fymbol of his own body. ]

7. Athanafius's words arc recited by Albert inns L 2. p. 400,401,^.

8. Bafil. de Spir.Santt. faith, \_Which of the Saints hath left us in Writing the words of invocation , Vphen the Bread of the Eucharift, and the Cup of blef-fing are fiuwed ? J

9. Ephrem (in Biblioth. Vhotii p. 425. Edit. Auguft.) faith, [_The body of Chrift, W&c£ believers receive, /0/rt^ #0*" to fenfible fubftance , <#W zj /wr feparated from the intelligible grace. 3

And ^ eos qui filii Dei, &c £ T^J^ ^of/V? diligent-' ly hove taking Bread in his hands, /?<? blejfed it, tftfd/ £r#£e z>> for a figure of his immaculate body, and he bleffed the Cup and gave it to his Difciplcs as a figure of his pretious blood* ]

10. Cyrillus ( vel. Johan.) HierofoL Catech. My-flag, calls the bread indeed Chrifts body, but fully expounds himfelf de (fhryfmate, Cat. ?>.pag. 255. [_ For as the Bread of the Eucharift, after the invocation of the Holy Ghoft, is no more (fommon Bread, but is the Body of Chrift : So alfo this Holy Oyntment is no more mcer Oyntment, nor (if any one had rather fo fpeah^) com-mon, now it is cvnfecrated . but it is a Gift (or Grace) which caufcth the pre fence of Chrift and the Holy Ghoft •, that is, of his Divinity. J As the Oyntment is Grace, or the Holy G^oft, jufx fo the Bread is the body of Chrift, as he faith after Cat. 4. It is not only what we fee ( Bread and Wine ) but more.

11. HieromcGKT. jovinicuuU 2- The Lord as a type (or figure ) of his blood] offered not water but wine.

12. Ambrofe de Sacram. L 4. c. 4. [_ This tforefore we ajfert 7 How that whichvs Bread, cm yet be the body

i of Chrift. ] And [ If Chrift sfpeech hadfo much

\ force, that it made that begin to be which was not,

how much more is it operative , that the things that

were, both Be , and be changed into fomething elfe. ]

And [ As thou haft drunks the fimilitude of death, fa

\ thou drinks ft the fimilitude of pretious blood. J

13. Theodoni t n Dialog. Immutab. dealeth with an Eutychian Heretick, who defended his Error by pleading that the bread in the Euchartft was changed into the body of Chrift : To whom faith Theodoret, [The Lord who hath called that meat and bread which is naturally his Body, and who again called hiwfelf a Vine, did honour the vftble figns with the appellation of his body and blood; not having changed their Nature, bat added Grace to Nature. J

And in Dialog 2. In confuf. he faith, £ The divine Myfteries are figns of the true body, j And again, anfvvering the Eutychians pretence ot a change he faith, Q By the net which thou haft made , art thou taken, fij* For even after the Consecration, the Alyftical figns change not their nature: For they remain in all their fir ft SVBSTANCS, figure and form, and are Vifible , and to be Handled as before. But they are under flood to be the things which they were made, and are believed and venerated as made that which they are believed I to be. ~\ Would you have plainer words?

14. Gelafius com. Nefi. & Eutych. faith, £ Verily the Sacraments of the body and blood of Chrift which

\ we take, is a Divine thing, for which and by which we are made partakers of the divine nature, (§* And yet it ceafeth not to be the Sub fiance and Nature of Bread and Wine, And certainly the Image and fimilitude of the body and blood of Chrift are celebrated in the atliort of the Myfteries. ~\ What can be plainer ?

K.Cwil.

15. Cyril. Alcxandr. in John 4. cap. 14. faith, \_He gave to his believing difciples fragments of Br cad,faying i Take, Eat, This is my body. J

16. Facundus lib. 9. cap. 5. pag. 404. fas cited by P. Molin. de Novitate Papifmi) V We call that the body and blood of Qorift which is the Sacrament of his body, in the confecrated Bread and £up* O Not that the Bread is properly his body, and the Cup his blood 9 but becaufe they contain the Myfterie of his body and blood* ]

But I am fo weary of thefe needlefs Tranfcriptions, that I will trouble my felf and the Reader with no more. Albertinm will give him enow more who de-iireth them : And no doubt but with a wet finger they can blot out all thefe, and teach us to deny thefenfe of words, as well as our fcnfes.

D. Butyoufaid alfo, that the Prefent Church and its Tradition is again ft Tranfubjtantiation^ as well as the Antient: How prove you that ?

R. Juft as I prove that the Proteftants are againft it* By the prefent fourch, I mean the far greater part of all the Chriftians in the world. The Greeks with the Mufcovites, the Armenians, the Syrians, the Copties, the Abaflines, and the Proteftants , and all the reft who make up about twice or thrice as many as the Papifts.

That they hold that there is true Bread and Wine after Consecration, all impartial Hiftonans teftifie, both Papifts and Proteftants, and their own feveral Coun-treymen ^ and alfo Travellers who have been among them. And their Liturgies, even thofe that are in the Bibliotheca Patrum put out by themfelves , do teftifie tor thofe Counrreys where they are ufed ( Though as Bilhop Vflier hath detected ) by one words addition, ihev have (hameleftv endeavoured to corrupt the Ethi- ■

opick Liturgy about the Real f re fence. ) But I need no more proof of that which no fairhiul HiHory doth deny*

And then I need not prove, that Tranfubftantiation is againftthe mod General or Common Tradition; For all thefe Chriftians, :he Greeks, Armenians, Abaf-fines, &c. profefs to follow the Religion which they have received from their Anceftors , a*, well as the Papjfts do : And if the Papifo be to be believed in faying that this is the Religion which they received from their forefathers, Why flflp rot the other to be believed in the fame cafe ? And ifthePopifh Tradition feem regardable to them, Way (hould not the Tradition of twice or thrice as many Chriftians be more regardable ? And if in Councils, the Major Vote muft carry it • Why not in the Judgeroeitf and Tradition of the Real body of Chrifts Church ? As for their trick of excepting againft them as Schifraaticks and Hereticks, to invalidate their Votes and Judgement, we defpife it, as knowing that fo any Ufurper that would make himfelf the fole Judge, may fay by all the reft of the world : But as they judge of others, they are juftly judged by others themfeives*

CHAP,

(14*)

CHAP. X.

The fecond fart of the fintroverfie , Whether it be Chrifis very Flcjh and Blood into which the Bread and Wine are Tranfubflanttated.

R. /^\Ur firft Queftion was, Whether there be any \JBread and Wine left after Confecration ; Our fecond is, Whether Chrifis Real Flefli andBlocdce there , as that into which the Bread andWme are changed?

And herein i. I do freely grant, that th? change of Chrifts Body by Glorification is fo gieai, as that it may be called, though not a Spirit, yet a fphitaal body, as Paul, i Cor. 15. fauh Ours when Glorified fhall be ^ that is, A body very like in puri :y , fimplicity, and activity to a Spirit : And the general d.inrence between a fpirit and body was not held by many of the Greek Fathers as it is by us: And if the fecond Council of Nice was Infallible, no Angel or oiher Creature is Incorporeal: Or as Damafus faith, [_ They are Corporeal in refpeft to God, but Incorporeal in re-fpect to grofs bodies. ] The perfed knowledge of ihe difference between Corf us arid Sfiritus . except by the formal Virtue?, is unknown to mortal men.

2.1 grant therefore, that our fenfes are no Competent Judges, Whether Chrifis true body be in the Sacrament? no more than Whether an Angel be in this room ? There are bodies which are Invifible.

3. I grant thac it is unkno vn to us, how far Chrifts Glorified body may extend? Whether the fame may be

f'47) to confute them that fay, Light is a 'Body j nor them that fay, It is a [fir it: nor them that fay, It is quid medium as a nexus of both : I mean aether or Ignis , vi-fible in its Light. And it is an incomprehenfible wonder, if Lumen be a real radiant or Emanant part of the Sun, that it fhould indivifibly fill all the fpace thence to this earth, and how much further little do we know. So for the extenfions of Chrifts body* let thofe that under ftand it difpute for me*

4* And I will grant that it is very probable that as in Heaven we fhall have both a Soul and 'Body., fo the Body is not like to have fo near an Intuition and fruition of God as the foul. And whether the Glorified Body of Chrifi will not be there a medium of Gods Communication of Glory to our bodies, yea and his .glorified foul to our fouls, as the Sun is now to our eyes, I do not well underftand : only I know that it is his prayer and will, that we be with him where he is to behold his Glory • and that God and the Lamb will be the Light of the Heavenly Jerufalenu

5. And I am fully fatisfied that it is not the figns only, but the Real Body and Blood of Chrift, which are given us in the Sacraments fboth Baptifm and the Eucharift) : But how given iu ? Relatively,de jure \ as a man is Given to a Woman in Marriage ^ or as a houfe and land are delivered to me, to be mine for my ufe •, though I touch them not. Thus 1. A right to Chrift is given us : 2* And the fruits or benefits of his Crucified body and (bed blood* are actually given us, that is> Pardon and the Spirit, merited for us thereby.

6. And among the Benefits given us, befides the Relative, there are fome fuch as we call Real or Thyfical terrri natively, and hyperphyfieal originally ut a Caufa, which are the fpirit of Holmefs, or the Quickening, Illuminating and Santlifying influence of the fpirit of

Chrift upon our fouls. And the Sacrament is appointed as a fpeciai means of communicating this*

7. I have met wiih fome of late who fay, that Indeed Chnfts Body and Blood in his humbled ftate, were not reaily eaten and drunk by the difciples, at his laft fupper : For the flejh prohteth not to fuch a afe : But that his Glorified Body is fpiritu^l, and is extenfively communicated, and invillbly prtfent under the form of Bread in the Sacrament •, and thit as we have a 2Wy, ^ fen-fitive life , and an Intelleciualfoul, fo Chrift is the lite of all thefe refpe&ively 5 viz,Mi$ "Body is made the fpiritu-al noun foment of our 'Bodies •, his fenfinve foul ( for which the word Blood is put, becaufeit is in the blood in animals ) is the food or life of our feniitive fouls -, and his Intellectual foul, of ours : And to thefe ufes they afTert the Real pre feme and oral participation of Chrifts Glorified body.

To all which I fay, 1. Whether or how far an in-vifiblefpiritual'Body is prefent ) Xenfe is no judge ^ nor can we know any further than Gods word tetieth us. 2. That Chrift in his Glorified foul and Body is our In-terccfiour with God, through whom we have all things, we muft not doubt. 3 .That Chrift in his Humane and Divine Na ure now in Heaven, is that Teacher who hath leit us a certain word,and that King who hath left us a perfect Law of Life, whom we mud obey, and a promife which we muft truft, we muft not queftion. 4. That the Holy Ghoft who is our fpiritual Life, is given us £y, from and for Chrift our Mediator, we muft take for certain truth.

Bu:, though in all thefe refpe&s, Faith apprehendeih and liveth upon Chrift, yet that moreover his Glorified 'Body in fubftance , either feedeth or by contact purih'eth our Bodies, and his fenfitive foul, our fenfuive foul?, and his Intellectual foul, our Intellectual fouls, as if in

(*49)

them/elves, and nor in their effects only they were thus communicated to us, I understand not, either by any juft conception of the thing it felf, or any proof of it from the word of God. But if any can help me to fee it, I fhall not refiife inflruftion.

Nor can I kc why the foul of Chrift fhould be faid to be given in the Wine only, and not in the 'Bread ; Nor why by this kind of Communication he may not as truly be faid to be given us in other Ordinances as in the Eucharift ; Nor know I what they mean by the Forms of bread and wine, under which they fay that Chrifts Body and blood is given : But I am paft doubt that Bread and Wine are ftill really in fubftance there.

And whereas the fame men fay that It is Chrifts humbled Hefh and blood as facrificed on the Crofs that is Q>mmemcrated, but his Glorified Body and foul only which are Communicated and Received, I muft fay, i. That Chrift plainly tells us of his Giving m his Sacrificed Body or flcjh it felf to eat, as he is the Lamb of God that taketh away the fins of the World : And he faith, Take , Eat, this is my Body which is broken for you, &c. fo that the fame body is Commemorated and Communicated : But how Communicated ? In the iffclis of his facrifice: \{\%Body wa> given a facrifice to God for us, and the fruits of that facrifice given to us. And thus he was given a facrifice for the life cf the world-, And thus we do receive him : By our bodily taking and eating the Bread, we profefs that our fouls take him to be our Saviour and Caufe oi our Life, both. as Purchafing mdMeriting'u on Earth, and Interceding and Communicating it in and from Heaven.

2. And this Doftrine will not ferve the Papiftsturn, who tell us that Bread and Wine are ceafrd, and that: Chrifts very flefh and blood is there, into which all the

fubftance of the bread and wine are turned \ and that his natural Body before his death, was in the fame fort given under the forms of Bread and Wine as now • and will not be beholden to this fubterfuge.

And indeed it is ftrange if the Sacrament at the firfl Jnflitution fhould be One things and ever after another thing • and that the "Bread ihould ever fince be turned into Chriflsbody, upon the Priefts Confecration, and not be turned into it, (becaufe not yet glorified) upon his own words [This is my 'Body.} Therefore we muft let this go, and fpeak of what they own and hold indeed. And as for any other Bodily prefcnce, influence or communication of Chrifts Body or SohI^ beddes that which they call Tranfubftantiation, we have nothing to do with it in this Controverfie,

That the fubftance ohhcBread and Wine is not turned into the fubftance of [hefleflj and blood ofChrift,is proved.

I f Becaufe the Glorified Body of Chrift is not for-mally and properlyFlefi and Blood .'Though it be the f me Body which was flejh and Blood. The Apoftle Paul faith, I Cor. 15. 50, 51. [ Now this I fay, brethren, that flejh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God, nor doth corruption inherit in corrupt ion ^ Behold, I pew you amyfterie : We pall not all fleep, but we Jhall all be changed.} It is not only Dr. Hammond, but other of the be ft expofltors who (hew that by Fkfo and blood and corruption here is not meant fin. but flejh and bloodformally confidcrcd • which is ever corruptible : And the Papifts commonly confrfs this. If therefore it be flejlj and blood which the bread arA wine are turned into, then either Chrift hath two bodies, or two parts of one, which are utterly heterogeneal, one flejh and blood, and the other not -, one corruptible "and the other incorruptible,

11, And this feigneth Chrift to be often Incarnate,

tv r en

even thoufands and millions of times y And to lay down that Incarnate body again as oft as it corrupteth, and to take up a new one as eft as the Pricft pleafe. and yet all but one. Whereas the Church and Scripture have ever told us but of one Incarnation of Jefus Chrift.

HI. A:id it is exprefly contrary to his promife Joh. 6. 51. I am the living bread wh;ch came down from heaven : If any man eat of this bread, he jhall live for ever: And the bread which I give is my flcfr which I will give for the life of the world —-— v. 34. Who fo eatetb my flifr ar.d drtnketh my blood hath eternal

life j-fc that cateth my fiefr and drinketh my

blood, dwelleth in me and I in him. As the living fa-ther hath fent me, and I live by the Father, fo he that

Eateth me, even he frail live by me He that eat-

eth of this bread frail live for ever /] Thefe are

the exprefs promifes ot Cnrift. But the Papifts fay that wicked men and unbelievers eat the flefr of Qorifty who (hall not live for ever, nor have eternal life, nor dwell in Chrift, but are more miferable by their hypo-crifie.

I pafs by abundance of other arguments, becaufe commonly ufed, and thefe are as many as my ends require ^ and I would make the Reader no more work than needs,

L4 CHAP,

CHAP. XL

'Tile Conclttftjii of the frft 'Booj^ : The Cattfes of Popery.

A T Hive now made plain to you, i.What the Pro-I tcfranu Religion is y ( or at leaft my own, and all that I perfwade you or any other to embrace.) 2. And alio that it is granted to be ail true by the generality e£ the Papifb fas is explained and proved. ) 5. And I have told you, by an enumeration of fome particulars, why I am not a Papi ft, and why I do diflWade you from k. 4. And I have made good my fait charge , in xht point of Tranfubftantiation, if any thing in the world can be proved. The fecond I fhall leave till another time, viz. Tofncw youhow hr their Religion (as- Popiih ) is from Infallible Certainty ^ and what horrid confufion is among them ; and how they have done much to promote Infidelity in the world, by bttfMing Religion upon fome notorious untruths, and upon a multitude of utter uncertainties. Though I doubt not but among them there are many true Clinicians, who practically refolv* their faith into the furer evidences of Divine Revelation, yet I fhall clearly prove to you, that all thofe whofe practical faith is no furer or better, than the notional opinions of their Divines will allow, have no certain faith or Religion at all : And what impudency U k to make men believe, that there is no certainty of Religion to be had, but in their way, who build their Religion upon fuch a multitude cf uncertainties and certain ialihoods, as will amaze you when I come to open them to you, viz,, that ever fo

many

many Learned men, and pcrlons or all ranks, can be induced fo to jeft in the matters of their falvation.

And if I be not by death or other greater work prevented, I hope in order to make good all the reft of the Charges before mentioned, which are our Rcafons againft the Popilli way of Religion. Inthe mean time tell me what you think cf that which is already faid.

D. I know not how to confute what you have faid : And yet when I hear them on the other fide, me thinks their tale feems fair,and I cannot anfwer them neither: fo that between you both, we that are unlearned are in a fad cafe, who muft thus be toft up and down by the difputati-ons of difagreeing Priefts,fo that w r e know not what a man may fay is certain.

R. to this I have fevera! things to fay j i. Ordination doth not make men wife, holy, humble and felf-de-*ying ^ but fets fuch men apart for the facred office, who feek it, and have tolerable g:fts of utterance : And it is too ordinary for worldly minded men, to make a worldly trade of the Priefthood, meerly for cafe, and wealth, and honour. In which cafe, do you not think that the Papifts who have multitudes of rich benefices, prelacies, preferments, and Church-power, and worldly honour, are liker to be drawn by worldly intereft, than fuch as I that am exceeding glad and thankful, if I might but preach for nothing ?

2. Do you lay your faith and falvation upon plaufible difcourfes ? and will you be of that mans faith, whom you cannot confute ? Then you mult be of tvery mans with : or indeed of no mans. There are none of all thefe feds, fo hardly confuted, as a Porpijyry, a JnUan or fuch like Infidels who difpute againft c£r$ft f and the truth of the Scriptures ? or fuch S.idd'jcees as difpute againft the Immortality of the foul. Alas, the tattle of Papifts, Pelagians, Antinomians, Separating Quakers, . • and

and all iucn, iuppoiing tne trutn or tne joins immortality and the Scriptures, is eafily refilled and confuted, in companion of their alTauIts who deny thefe our foundations. And will you turn Sadducee, Atheift or Infidel becaufe you cannot confute their Sophiilry ? I tell you, if you knew how much harder it is, to deal with one of thefe than with a Papift or any other Sectary, you would (hake the head, to hear one man difpute for an univerfal Monarch, and another difpute againft a form of prayer, and another whether it be lawful to Communicate with dl(Tenters, &c while fo few of them all can defend their foundations, even the fonts Immortality and the Scriptures , nor confute a fubtle Infidel or Sadducee.

3. What if we all agreed to fay that there is no Bread in ;he Sacrament after Confecration > Were it ever the truer for that ? Will you be deceived as oft as men can but agree to deceive you ? There is a far greater party Agreed againft. Jefus Chrift (even Rve parts of the World ) than that which is agreed for him: Will you therefore be againft Chrift too? There are more Agreed for Mahomet ( a grofs upftart deceiver ) thaa are agreed for Chrift : And doth that make it certain that they are in the right?

4. Will you deny all your fenfes, and the fenfes of all the World, as oft as you cannot anfwer him that denyeththem? Upon thefe terms, what end will there be of any Con:roverfie, or what evidence fhall ever fatisfie man } Have Papifts any furer and more fatisfy-ing evidence for you, than fenfe ?

I pray you tell me • Did you ever meet with any of them that doubt of anothtr life, or of the Immortality of the foul ?

JD. Y~es, many a one: I would we were all more certain than we are.

*, And

a. Ana what is it that iucli men would have to put hem out of doubt ?

D. They fay that our talk of Prophets and fuperna-ural revelation are all uncertainties • and if they could ccy they would believe. Could they fee fuch Miracles s they read of : Had they feen Laz^artu raifed, or Jhrift rifen from the dead, &c. Had rhey feen Angels t Drvilsor Spirits appearing: Had they feen Heaven )r Hell, they would believe.

R. And are not you more obftinate than they, if /ou will not believe that there is any Bread and Wine y vhen you fee 7 feel, fmell } and tafie it, and all men that lave fenfes are of the fame mind ? What is left to fa-is fie you, if you give fo little credit to the common enfe of all the world ?

D. But I ofc think that the faith of all the (fhurch s much furer than my fenfe, or my private faith ? At eaft: it is fafeft to venture in the common road, and to "peed as the Church fpeedeth, which Chrill: died for, md is his Spoufe.

R. i. But do you think that the opinion of the Papal : afrion who are not the third part of the Univerfal Church, that is, the Chriftian world, is the faith of all \be Church f Why call you Opinion faith ? and a fed: *nd faction, All the Church f

2, Indeed if all the Church did fet their fenfes igainft mine, I would rather believe them than my fenfes : For I fhould think, that I were in that point 'diftra&ed , or my fenfes by fome difeafe perverted > which I did not perceive : I mean if it were in a cafe where they had the affirmative : As if all England fhould witnefs that they faw it Light at Midnight, I would think my eyes had fome impediment which I knew not of, if I faw none. But this is not your cafe. The Papifts thetnfelves do not fet all their fenfes againft

yours:

y6urs : mucn leis the lenies ct all mankind : They do not fay, chat [IVe and all wen^ except the Protcftants^do i fee , and feci , and tafie that Thtrc is no Bread and' Wine. 2 But contrarily, You have the [cafes of all the world, and the faith jot two or three parts of the Chriftian world, againft rhc Opinion of one Se&, which Schifmatically call themfelves All the Church.

D. But fuppofe that they trr in this one point, they may for ail that be in the right in all the reft : Who is it that hath no en\;r ? I mull not fur this one forfake them.

k. u I will ftand to their own judgements in this^ Whether all their foundation and faith be not uncettain, if any one Article of their faith prove falfe? They are all (that ever I knew ) agreed of the affirmative : And wili gW^ you no thanks \m fuel) a defence, • 2. And if we come to that work, I 111 all prove all the reft of their opinions before mentioned to be alfo

m.

'Z>. What then if I find but one point falfe in the Proteftants Religion ? Muft I therefore forfake it all ashlfe?

R. i. Still remember to diftingunh between our Ob,cttvvc and our Subjcllive faith : or if you under-ftand not tliofe word-. , between Gvds Revetatiqn and Mans Bdirf of it : or the Divine Ride arid Matter of our faiih, and our faith it feif. And about our own Belief you muft diftingutih between St mans ftdfeffcm of Belief and die Reality of his belief.

All true Proteftants prefrf to take Gods word alone, or his Revelation in Nature and Scripture , for the whole Matter of their Divine Belief and Religion. Bur who it is that pneercly bclicvcth little do I know : ntT how much of this word any lingular pcrfon under-ftandetlu and believetb, I can give vou no account of.

p5T)

If perfonal faith were that which we difpute of, I would be accountable for r.o nuns but mine own. In this fend", There are as many Faiths and Religions as men : For every man hath Ils Own Faith and Religion : And if you know thai a man erreth in one point, itfollow-eth not that he erreth in another. They that believed that the Rcfirreiiion was paft , believed a fallhood : and yet truly believed thai Chrifi was the Mefflah : They erred that thought it lawful to eat things offered to Idols • and yet they erred not in believing in (^hrift. No two men in the world, its like, have the lame degree of perfonal faith and knowledge • as I ofi faid before. But tf our profefTed ohjett of faith , that is, Gods wordy were falfe in one thing, we could not be fure that it were true in any thing.

Yet here I told you before, i. That a man may be

much furer that one fart of Scripture is Godswordjhan

mother •, becaufe fome Copies are doubtful in the di-

/erfe Readings of fome panicuiar words or fenterices ;

and which of them that fo differ is Gods word, we oft

l know not: But fo much as we are fure is the word of

God, we are fure is true : So if the Authority of fome

*tw bocks was once doubted of, ( as 2 Pet. Jam. jud*

Hcb. &c.) and yet be by any, it lolloweth not that they

loubt of the truth of any, which th^y know :o be the

vordof God. 2. Or if any do hold char the Penmen

might be left to ihcir ntural fallibility in fome by-hi-

|torical circumftances or words, it would not follow,

jhat one Article of the Gofpel or Chriftian faith is doubt-

|iil, which is plainly as the Kernel of it, delivered in all

he Scriprure, and alfo by infallible Univerfal Tradhi-

>n, by it fe!f y in the Sacrament , Creed, Lords Prayer

n&Decaloouc.

Ani

And our cafe alfo much differcth from the Papifts in this: For Weprofefs that our objective faith, ( Gods word ) is Infallible, and we are Infallible fo far as we believe it: But we confefs that we are lvable to w;/-■underftand fome parts of it ^ and fo far are fallible, as being imperfect: But the Papifts fay, that their Pope and Councils and Univerfal-/Vvi#*cfrj are perfonally Infallible^ fo as not to be lyable to any mifunder(landing of any Article of faith (iayfome) or Article of Catholic!^ faith ( fay others ) : And fo they make their own A& of Believing to be Commenfurate and equally certain with Gods word of faith-, and therefore they allow you to queftion them in all, if they err in one, as pretending to a gift of never erring in any.

Z>. But is it not a great reafon to incline us to them rather than to you , when They only pretend to Infallibility , and You confefs that you are all fallible in your Belief?

R. This is to be the fubjed of our next Conference, and therefore not now to be anticipated •, only I (hall tell you, that It is a meer noife of ambiguous wcrdsto deceive the heedlefs that cannot fearch out the meaning of them. I. We not only Pretend^ but Profefs and prove that our forifti-an Religion is altogether Infallible, Por which end I have written divers Treatifes my felf. 2. And we profefs that all the myftical Church of Chrift ( that is all fincere Chriftians ) do truly and Infallibly believe all that is SjfcntialtoChnflianity, and as much of the Integrals as they can know. 3. And we profefs that the Catholkk^Church-Vifble (that is, Jll prfcT-fors of' ftriflianity in the world ) do profefs all • Ejfentials ot Chrifiianity , and are Infallible. ■ thii profejfion.

But we hold wixhall 5 that there is no particular

Churchy

Church, or Bifiop, no Synod or Council, that is /* /#-fallible, but that, i.They that hold to the Eflentials may mifunderftand and err about fome Integrals : 2. Andthofe per fans have no Certainty that they fhall not err by Hcrefie or Apoftacy from Lhe Eflentials thcmfelves: So that thtfl?urch\s lnfJUble, becaufe it is ejfcntiated by believing an Infallible Word • which whoever believeth not, ceafeth to be of the Church: 9 not Gods Word infallible , becaufe the Church cr any number of men believe it, or fay Its true : For Truth is before Knowledge and Faith : As Arifiotle was a Philofopher, becaufr he under flood and uught the doctrine of real Philofophy :, and not that dodrine called Phyficks or Philofophy, becaufe that Anflotle knew or taught it.

But, alas, What work fhall I (hew you when I come to open their bewildring uncertainties ?

D. But to deal i'reely with you, methinks their way of meafuring out the Neceflaries in Faith and Religion according to mens various parts and opportunities, feemeth to me more fatisfa&ory than yours, who fix upon certain points ( as ihe Bapttfr.al Covenant) as Eflentials. For there is great diverfity of mens Capacities.

R. This cometh from confounding feveral Queftions as if they were all one.

1. It is one Q^eftion, What is the Qariftian Religion ?

2. £>Itis another Quefticn, Whether the Chriftian Religion be abfoluteiy neceflarv to the falvation of all rhofe to whom it was never competently revealed ?

3. And it is another Queftion , Whether more than the Eflentials of Chriftian Religion be not neceflary

to

to the falvation of many who have opportunity te know more ? Alas, what work doth Confufion make in the world |

To the h'rft, It is evident that as Mahometanifm is a thing which may be defined, fo much more may fortftianity : Who that writeth of the feveral Religions of the world, Ethnick, Jewiih, Mahometan, and Chriftian, do not take them to be diftinguifhable and difcemablc ? Efpecially when Chrift hath fummed up Chriftianity into a Covenant , and given it us in ex-prefs words, and affixed a flat promife of falvation to the true Covenanters , and the Church hath ever called our Baptifm , our Chriftening f Is Chriftiani-ty Nothing ? If Something, Why may it not be defined, and differenced from all falfe Religions ? And if fo, It hath its EfTential Conftitutive parts. All this is plain to Children that will fee.

2. And then as to the fecond queftion, it concerned not our Controverfie at all. It is but Whether any Infidels may be faved ? Or any that are no Chrifti-ans > And if it could be proved, that: any are faved that are no Chriftians, do you thereby prove that they are Chriftians , or members of the Chriftian Church ? or that Chriftianity is not a Religion which may be defined ?

3. And as to the third queftion, We are on all fides agreed in it, That they that have more than the naked Effentials of Chriftianity revealed to them aptly , are bound to believe more : Yea, it is hardly conceive-able that any one fhould know and believe the Effentials only, and no more : It is not EfTential to the Chriftian Covenant or Chriftianity to know that the Name ofChrifts Mother was Mary\ or that Pontius PiUte was the man that condemned him ■ And if

(i6l)

an Ignorant man thought that his continuance in the Grave was four dayes , I do not think that this would damn his foul to Heii: ( Mi ch lefs the not believing that Mary dyed a Virgin. ) And yet it is not like that any nian lhould come to the EfTentials of Chriftianity by any fuch way, as ihould acquaint him with no one of theie, or any point befides the faid EfTentials.

And yet it is certain for all this, that he that truly receiveth the EJJentzals , and is true to the Baptif-mat Covenant y fl)*U be faved, whatfoever elfe he want; But it is as true, that he that Receiveth the Effentials, will ( from the fame principles and obligations J receive more , when it is aptly notified to him ; And he that truly Covenanteth , will honeftly keep the Covenant he maketh • which bindeth !}im ftill to learn of Chrift; But if any man be faved without the EJJen-tials y he muft be faved without Chriftianity.

D. But you know that they diftinguifh of faith Expltcite and Implicite : He may be Implicitely a Chriftian that believeth not the E/Tentials Explicitely ± as long as he believeth that which would infer them, if they were made known to him to be indeed the Word of God.

Ri Thus do Words abufe and cheat the ignorant : Could you but read their own Dr. Holden before cited in his Analyf. fid. you would find this diftindion juftly rendred by him fhamefui and ridiculous, according to their common fenfe and ufe of it. and the truer fenfe delivered and vindicated. An Implicite faith or Knowledge we confefs to be true, as it is op-pofed to i. Adijlintl, or 2. To a well-expreffed faith or Knowledge. For it is Implicite, (r> 1. As to the Objett, when a man knoweth the whole matter, but not

M by

by diftinB farts: As a man may know a Cup of water, and not know how many drops or drams it is. or he may know a fentence, and not know how ma-ny letters are in it. 2. Or it is Imflicite as to the

Ait-, when it is yet but a Apply this to Mr. johnfom Re- crUC ( e imperfeft conception,

loynder on this Point, ana you • % , . • „ , '

will fee his vaity. and the thing is really known,

but not the Logical notions, or Grammatical names, either the verba oris or mentis by which it fhould be exprefled : So that the man cannot notifie his knowledge to another. Thefe two are called Implicite; the firft fignifieth Confrfed and General Knowledge, and the other Imperfetl and undigeftcd.

But to call thvxlmplicite faith or knowledge, which extendeth only to fome Principles , and not to the Conchifons themfelves , is 1. To Call No-knowledge and faith , by the name of knowledge and faith. 2. And by their application to confound the World and the Qourch, and to make all the Infidels and Heathens to be Chriftians , and every Fool a Philofo-pher.

For, 1. All men of Reafon know thefe two Principles (who own a God), I. That God is not a Iyer, bat all his Word is Trite. 2. That all the Truths in the world are God's, fome way or other revealed by him. Therefore, if they knew that the Gofpel were Gods word, they would believe it : or if they knew it to be one of thofe Truths that are in the world, they would take it to be of God. And thus all Infidels, and Turks, and Pagans may ( by fuch abufe ) be called hnplicite Chriftians.

But why then do the Papifts burn the Protectants! when if their Religion were true , wc are all lmpli-

citely

citely rapijts. hor we believe, i. lhat all Divine

Revelations are True • 2. And that ali thofe are In-

I fallible whom God hath promifed to make Infallible ;

3. And that all thofe mull be believed and obeyed whom God hath commanded us to believe and obey ►

4. And that we muft not forfake that Church which God hath commanded us to adhere to -, 5. And that ail our Lawful Pallors muft be reverenced and fub-mitted to ^ 6. And all their lawful Precepts obeyed, 7. And all Gods Sacraments holily ufed ^ 8. And all Traditions from the Apoftles to the Churches received • with many more fuch : Only we .know hot that the Popmis our Paftor, or that his Councils are the Churcn, or have a promife of Infallibility i and fo of the reft. And yet we muft burn for it, if they can procure it. And yet he is a.true believer Implicitely who believeth not the EfTentiais of Chriftianity.

But the Dcfign which is predominant here .is too vifible, when this Implicke faith cometh to be deferred : For it is not a Belief in GW, or in Chrift only that will ferve the turn, but it muft be a belief in the Qhurch, and their Church, and their Pope too, or elfe it will not do. The Implicite faith is the explicite belief of thefe three Articles .• 1. All Gods Word is true : 2. All that is Gods Word, which the Church tells us is Gods Word. 3. The Pope and his Council and Subjects are this Church. And yet this man muft be fuppofed if he know no more, per impojfibile, not to know that there is a Chrift, or who he.is as to his Perfon or Office, or what he hath done, or will do for us : And yet that he hath a Vicar and a Church. Or elfe they mav know Chrift and Chriftianity before they know that there is any

M 2, Pope

Pope or Church, and then the Pope hath loft the Game.

D. But if Popery be fo fenfelefs a thing as you make it, how come fo great a number of perfons of all ranks and qualities, Kings, Nobles, Learned men, and Religioufly-difpofed perfons to embrace it ? Have not they fouls to fave or lofe as well as you ? and do they not lay all their hopes of Heaven upon it? and can iuch perfons, and fo many, be fo mad and fenfelefs ?

R. Do we need thus to ramble round about, as if we would doubt of the tbina^W we know the fynfes of it ? when we fee and^Wey all confefs that they deny all our fenles ? Will you not believe that there is a Sun, till you know what it is made of ? Or whether the Sea ebb and flow, till you know the Caufes of it ? I pray you tell me,

Q. i. Do you think that the Mahometan's is not a very foolifh Religion, and their foundation ( the pretended Million of their Prophet ) without any (hew of truth ; and his Alcoran ( if ever you read it ) a heap of Non-fenfe and Confufion ?

D. Yes: I think it deferveth no better thoughts.

R. And do you not know that ( though it arofe not till about fix hundred years after Chrift ) much more of the world is Mahometan than Chriftian ? And are there not far Greater Emperours and Princes Mahometans than any that are Chriftians ? And have not all thefe fouls to fave or lofe ? And do they not all venture their fouls upon that Religion ? Why then is not your argument here as good for Mahometa-nifm as for Popery?

D, Though the Emperours of Confiantinofle , the Great Mogul, the Perfian , Tartarian Mahometans,

(165) tans, &c* be all Great as to their vaft Dominions, yet they are barbarous and unlearned in companion of the Papifts.

R. i. It is not becaufe they have not as much wit as we : but becaufe they think that our laborious wordy kind of learning, is an abufe of wit, and againft true Policy , ludicroufly or contentioufly diverting mens minds and time from thofe employments which they think more manly and profitable to the Commonwealth ^ Though no doubt but they do err more unmanly on that extreairu But I further ask you,

i^_2. Do you not think that the Common Religion of the Heathens is very unworthy for any wife man to venture his foul upon ? If yon have but read how it is defcribed by the Antient Chrifti-ans, JnftiHy Athenagoras^ Origen y Arnobius^ Minn* tins Foelix , Tertullian , Lnciantius , Eufebim 9 An-guftine^ &c. you will fay that they thought it a ridiculous unmanly Religion.

D. I think no better of it than they did.

R. And i. Do you not know that almoft all the World was then Heathen and Idolaters ? Alas, what was Jttdta ( lefs than England) to all the world? Was not the Roman Empire, and Alexanders before that, far Greater than any Chriftian Prince hath now ? And to this day, are not four fixth parts of the whole world ( at leaft ) Heathens and Idolaters ? Brierwoods Calculation is, that if you divide the world into thirty parts, nineteen are Heathen , fix Mahometans, and five only Chriftians of all forts c befides the vaft unknown parts of the world, which are not like to have any Religion of fupernatural Revelation.

(i66)

2. And do you not know, that Athens and Rome-Heathen were no Barbarians, but of molt polite literature , and the Fathers of the Learning now in ufe • and that when the Chriftians arofe among them, they accounted them Barbarians ? And at this day , and long before us, the Chinenfes have been addicted to ,4-rts and Literature : And the Brack-?h.iiiu and ionz.il are no Barbarians. And have not a;] thefe fouls' to Live- or lofe ? And are all thefe fo mad as to call away their fouls upon a fenfelefs contemptible Religion ?' If your' reafon be good, how much more will it hold for the Heathens, than the Papi/ls? Alas, what a handful are the Papifts in companion of the plvLnt" Idolaters ! much more.in corn-Rarifon of the Ant lent Heathen world, before Chri-fijanity and M\ihoivctanifm difpofTefled them of thofe which they now hold ! With wfiat greater fhew of advantage did the Heathens ufe the Arguments which the Papifts do now pur their trull: in, and lay their Caufe upon!

Do. i luy, talk of Antiquity I Why, it was the Novelty 'of Qy-ijiianity in comparifon of Heatbenifm through the f worfd, which was it that hardned them ra contemn, and perfecute it.

2. Do tli^-.^'k cf Vnivcrfelity and Confer : v Alas, how little, a pan: of the world were the Chri-ftfians at firfr^'aud.are the Papifts now, in comparifon of the Heathvss, .then and now ?

J, Do tlicy^tiaik.of Greatnd; ? Empire , Ads and.' Learning ,?, How. little are they as to the firft, to the Heathen Empires ? And tor Learning, they received it of them : And Arijtofle ftill is the S mens Oracle. And yet doubtlefs all thefe advantages are not fufilcient to difprove the follies of Hea-

thenifiq,

( *°7 ) nifm , nor the badnefs of their Religion ? And yet will fo much lefs ferve to fupport the credit of fnfelefs Popery ?

D, But Chriftians may well expect greater helps fr >m God, than Heathens or Mahometans: Thereiore that fo many Great and Learned and Reiigious Chriftians fhould go fuch a fenfelefc way to another world, methinks feemeth ftrunge.

R. And are not Greeks, Armenians, Syrians, Abaf-fines and Protectants, all Chriftians as well as they ? Their proud fchifmarical unchriftenmg all but the fubje&s of the Pope, is a filly proof i.hat we are no Chriftians, or that they are any better than others ^ unlefs Malignity, uncharitablenefs and Schiim be the true Excellency.

i. And are not other Chriftians More than the Pa-pifts ? Bifhop Bramhall reckons the Papifts to be about the fitlh part of Chriftians: Suppofe they be a third part ? They are ftill the Minor part.

2. And are not the Proteftants as Learned as the Papifts ? Why then will not your argument hold sigainft them as well as for them ? Have not all thefe Chriftians fouls to fave or lofe > And do they not take that for the true Religion on which they truft their fouls ?

jD, But though all thefe fet together are more than the Church of Rome , yet no one Se& of them is fo great • and what matter is it how many various Sefts are ?

R. i. The Greek Church is judged by wife men, te be yet bigger than the Roman, even in this its broken ftate: But there is no doubt but it was much bigger long after the flrft divifion , before the Turk did win the Eaftern Empire.

2. But, if it were not fo, your objection is frivolous. The Queflion is either of Different Churches, or of Different opinions and parties in the fame Church. As to the firft, There are but two opinions in the Chriilian world, that I know of, about the Conftitution of the CathoUck^Church. The one is the opinion of the Papifis only, £> that The Catholick^ Church is effentially constituted both of Chrifl, and the c JPope as his Vicar and universal Monarch, with a.11 his fubjells -, as the pars Imperans and pars fib-dita.

The other is the judgement of all other Chriftians, ( that I know or hear of, ) that The Catholick^ £hurch is effentially conflituted only of Chrifl as the fupream Head y or King, or pars Imperans, and his fubjetts as the pars fubdita s £3* And that Patriarchs, Arch-bifhops, Bifhops, &c, are but Officiales & fubditi primarii vel nobiles, cenflitutive parts indeed of their particular fourches (Tome humane, and fome Divine) but no effential parts of the Catholic!^ Church,

£J* This is the Grand difference between the Papifts and all other Chriftians in the World, What the Catho-lu'K Church is I Whether it have anyConftitutive Vni~ verfal Head or Monarch befides Chrifl ? Now feeing that Greeks, Abaffmes, Armenians and all agree with us in this againft the Papifts , it is evident to them that are willing to fee that we are all of the fame Catholic}^ Church , though not of the fame particular Churches , nor all for the fame Official Minifters . Becaufe we are all for the fame Con-ftitutive Head, and his fibjelh as fuch, and agree in all the EfTential parts, tfj* So that our differences among all thefe parties or particular Churches or

Coun-

Countries is but the difference of Opinions and parties in one and the fame Church -, and not a difference of Catholick Churches ( which can be but one. )

And if that be the queftion, I undertake to prove that there is no one Se& of Chriftians known under Heaven, that hath fo many different opinions within ic felf, (if halffo many,} nor have written half fo much againft one another, as the Pa-pifts have done.

3. But I muft not here anticipate my further work: when I come to that, I (hall (hew you how fmall and how disagreeing a part of the Chriftian world the Papifts are. I have elfcwhere recited the words of their Mekhior Canm who boafteth that the Papacy yet ftandeth, though almoil all the world, and befides Princes, alraoft all the Bifhops and Churches have fought againft it. Was it then the Univerfal Church ? And the words Oi." Rcynerim who faith, that the Churches of the Armenians and the others planted by the Apoftles ( wkhout the Empire he mear>eth ) were not under the Pope of Rome. I (hall, if I live to do that work, yet ful-lier (hew you, that the Pope was but the chief Patriarch in one Empire, as the Archbifhop of Canterbury is the chief Bifhop in England \ and that his General Councils were but General AfTemblies r of the Empire ( inconfiderable occafional accidentals excepted ), even as our Convocations, or the Scots General AfTemblies were, though in a ! far larger Empire. But all this I have done already I in other writings,beyond all reafonabie contradiction. D. Tell me then, how it cometh to pafs that fo many Princes, Nobles, Learned men, and Religious can be fo marvellouflv deluded?

R. Alas

(1*0

R. Alas poor man •, You talk as if you knew not your felf nor mankind I how bad a thing corrupt unfan&ified nature is I Why do you not alfo ask, How cometh ic to pafs, that the far great-eft part of the World ( even five parts of fix J are Heathens and Mahometanes I and that moft of the World are wilful felf-deftroyers; many ruining their very bodies, Eating, and Drinking, and Whore-ing, and Idling them into Gowt, Stone, Dropfies and an hundred Maladies : but far more ruining their fouls. Why do you not alfo ask, How rea-fonable Creatures ( of all Profeftions ) are fo worfe than mad, as to fell their fouls and everlafting hopes, for a dream and fhadow, or for dirt and dung j even for a few Cups or Morfels, or merry hours, which they know are like the mirth of drunkennefs, which is quickly gone, and ends in ficknefs and in {haute / For a great Name, and a large attendance in their way to the grave 1 For the thoughts and breath of mortal man 1 And for that which all men fir/t or lad, are forced to call meer Vanity and Vexation I Were not men mad in fin, had they never heard a Preacher, the fight of a dead Carkafs and a grave would do more to make them fober and confiderate, than is done with mod. When moft of the World will obfti-na.ely follow the Devil their enemy, by known fin to evcrlafting milery, againft all the commands, exhortations, promifes, threatnings, mercies and warnings of God himfelf, and all the perfwafions of their trueit friends, What wonder if the fame men can be Papifts or any thing ?

But I will tell you fome of tlu j particular Caufes,

I, Abroad

(*7*)

I, Abroad in other Countries, there are all thefe Reafons eafily difcernible, i. Who knoweth not how great an advantage Education hath, to form mens judgements to almoftany thing, how bad fo-ever ? That which children receive, if it be not dif-flgreeable cc their fenfible intereft, how commonly and tuuciota Jo they follow ? Whence is it that the whole Fmpires and Kingdoms of Pagans are all of one mind ; and the Kingdoms of Mahometans of another ? One Kingdom almoft all Greek Chrifti-ans and another Papi/ls, and another Lutherans, and another Reformists, &e ? Hath not education a great hand in this ?

2. And the cuftome of the Countrey, and the company which they converfe with, is of no fmall power with mens minds. Efpecially when men \ivt where almoft all are of a wind, they think that concord is a fign of tnith, and mode fly forbiddeth them to be wifer than all the Countrey.

3. And when they know few or none of another mind, how fhould they know what they are ? And when they hear an hundred lies againfl: them, and never hear them fpeak for themfelves, they think that the Law of modefty, humanity and converfe, oblige them to believe, that fo Many, fo Great, and fo Learned and Religious perfons will not impudently lie : When as perhaps thelve it felf is a Tradition which the lyars received on the fame terms in modeft credulity from their teachers or fathers.

4. And fpecially, the Names of Order, Government, Vriity, and Qoncord., deceive many millions of fouls : For Order and Vnity are juftly amiable to nature it felf. And the purblind know not an Image from a Man*

5. Efpecially

5» Efpecially when civil Wars, or Church dif-cords have diftra&ed the World, and made men aweary of all that's prefent, and fufpicious of all things, which feemed to have a hand in their dif-appointments; this maketh men hearken to any thing which pretendeth to certain fcttlement, Order and peace. Even as a man that by turning round is wheelfick, will lay hold on the next poft or fixed thing, to keep him from falling down.

6. And when their Teachers make them believe, that all Chriftians befides them do live like madmen, in Se&s and Scjiifmes, diftra&edly tearing out one anothers throats, What wonder if this make men willing of any way which pretends to peace, znd glad to run into any Cottage which will keep them from fuch a ftorm ?

7. But the great caufe is, 1. The 'Blindnefs of mens minds, 2. The wickednefs of all unrenewed hearts, and 3. The power of carnal Interejh

1. Few men are of great natural parts for wit, and fewer improve them, by any ferious ftudy of things fpiritual.

2. Almoft all men ftudy with the byas of prejudice and partiality, and as men that would have one fide to be right , becaufe it is for their worldly ends.

3. Sin Ruleth in moft fouls, and the enmity againft God ajid his Laws prevaileth in carnal minds, Rom, 8. 6, 7, 8. And enmity is an ill ftudent and feeker of truth ^ and friendfhip is an incompetent judge of fin.

4. None but a few felf-denying perfons can bear to be reproached as Hereticks and Schifmaticks by all about them.

5. Efpecially

(^73)

5- Efpecially the countenance or difcountenance of Great ones, doth more with fuch than Heaven and Hell.

6. And that's not all, But he that will not be a Pa-pift, in moft of their Countreys muft be undone^nd in many muft be rackt> tormented and burnt: And it is but few that have learnt to go to fo high a price for truih, and to be Religious at fuch a rate.

8. Therefore it is a thing utterly unknown among them, who is heartily a Papift, and who not. For when men ngfl take on them to be Papifts or be undone, or burnt, millions will feem to be fuch that are not. For,

9. Moft of the World have no Religion in truth and fower, to overcome the world and flefh : and therefore will feem to be of that Religion, which hath the upper hand, and ferveth their turns.

io. Yea, the very Belief of the Immortality of the foul, the RefurreBion and the life to come, is feeble, if not unfound and lifelefs, in the moft of men : And fo is the Belief of the ftriftian faith : And a man that doubteth whether there be another life or not, will make as fure as he can of the plea-fures of this prefent life. And I fear that this is the cafe of no fmall number of Papifts . to think, [_ u I know not whether there be any other life c c of retribution : I rather think that there is none : " But left it fhould prove true, I will be of fome

Religion : And where can I be with more eafe

and fafety, than in that which my Rulers and cc Teachers and the whole Countrey fay is right > " If it prove otherwife, I hope God will excufe

me, while I obey my Governours, and do as the

<c moft

cc

cc

(174;

"moftdo. 3 He that much doubteth of the truth of £hriftiamty it felf, may eafily fall in with any Sed which feemeth for his intereft. I fear *JHc-lantlhon too truly faid, that Italians maintain that Chrifi is in the Sacrament , when they do not believe that he ts in Heaven,

11. And many Nicodemites think, that a man needs not expofe himfelf to danger for his faith, but may keep it to himfelf, and do as his neighbours do : efpecially where they have no other fo-ciety. to joyn with, they think it better to joyii with the Popiih Churches than none. ! 12. And I have re^fon co thinl^that it is but few among the multitude, that underftand indeed what the Papifts hold, while they go with them in the general Name and profeflion : And in particular . about Tranfubftantiation : When even the fubtle Schoolmen are not agreed of its proper fenfe • (as Daraxdus his inftance for one doth prove. J I do not think that one of an hundred that rcceiveth their Euchariit, doth in his heart believe, that It is not Bread : But fome think that their Church it felf meancth othenvife : And fome fay, Q It is not for fuch as I to contradict them and difpute • but I will leave every one to think as he will •, and fo will I.]

13. And as for Princes and Lords abroad, Thofe that have once efcaped Popery will take heed how they entertain it again, unlefs lufl and folly have fold them for a prey : But they that live where their fubjeBs are Papifts, dare not venture to fhake fo great a fabrick, left they overthrow thcmfclves:

For 1. People are tumultuous 3

c 175;

2. The Popifh Clergie are rich and powerful and exceeding numerous.

3. Religion is a thing that men are tender and tenacious of, who are ferioufly of any.

4. The Popifh doftrine of depofing and killing excommunicate Kings, maketh many Princes flatter the Priefts, for fear of lofing their lives. They think that it is better make feme advantage of the Popes friend/hip, than to have fuch an enemy, whofe Kniv.s and poifon have eafie accefs, and whofe armies we trufb watch againflj in peace, as in a continued War, and we know not when they are in our o^n holies or near us, nor where nor whenweareinfafety.

14. And, alas, the Great ones of the World have the gr sate ft Temptations, and no: ilie weakj eft lufts and paffions, and have more of worldly and carnal latere ft to carry them away !

15. And the Papifts Religion is notably fuited to their lufts and carnal ends : All which, and much more, may tell you that it no wonder, that fo many forreign Princes, and States and Nobles can cleave to fo fenflefs a way as Popery.

D. II. But how come fo many among us in England to turn Papifts of late years, where Popery is difcountenanced by the King, Parliament and Laws ?

R. Many of the fame Caufes do this, which I need not reherfe. And 1. Too many both Noble and ignoble are prepared by their Lnfts, and by a vicious life. There are many things in Popery which greatly accommodate a carnal mind and a debauched guilty Conscience, which the Chriftian f rote ft ant Religion affordeth not. And a profligate

flagitious

flagitious perfon, is likelieft to be forfaken ofGod , and to be given up to believe a lye, feeing they received not the truth in the love of it, that they might be faved , 2 Thejf. 2. 10, 11, 12. I fear nothing fo much, as left men turn Heart-Infidels and Tongue-? apift s ( as the fuitableft Rcferve, \d\Chn-ftian Religion and the life to come , ihould prove a truth ). And indeed great fins Cry for great Vengeance : And what Greater than for Mind, Will and Life to be forfaken of God ?

2. And alas, except Lawyers, Phyficions and others bred up to Studies and Employments, how few are there of Nobility or Gentry that are hard ftudying men 1 And the great Myfteries of Religion will not be well learned and defended, by a life of eating, drinking, playing, jeafting, gaming, hawking , hunting, vifitings of empty company, luftiiilnefs, worldlinefs , or vain-glorious pomp. No men grow wife or Chriflians indeed by fuch a eourfe*

3. And indeed the Popiflj Trie (is are more in-duftrious than too many 01 our Incumbent Minifters ; for which they are Commendable in their way : The Erroneous are oft more zealous than the Orthodox, And they that apprehend themfelves between fear and hope, are ufually more tnduftriom than they that by poffeffwn are fccure : which maketh the lower fide fo oft get up, and the upper fide go down. And I would I might not lay, that our Minifters are too few of them able t& deal with a trained Sophifter ; Some are'unable in this particular canfe , becaufe they take it as a baffled pack of notorious Errors, and thought that few fober perfons were in danger of it ; And fo

they

they have ( honeftly ) bent their ftudies and labours to the winning of fenfual perfons from their (ins ; and are unfurnifhed in the Popi/h Contrc-verfies •, knowing that they can refer them to multitudes of Books, which are unanfwerable. But alas, too many alfo are unable through meer ig* 7iorancc, lovonefs of parts } and grcfs infufficiency or negligence , not only in this, but other parts of their Ministerial work.

4. And we have incurred no fmall dammage and danger , by ignorant Over-doing againft the Papifts : Partly with the feIf^voife Sectaries^ calling many laudable or biamelefs things , by the Name of Popery, y Antithriftianity and Idolatry , becaufe they are crofs to their pre-judging partial conceits : And. partly by fome unfonn'd dcclriner , which fome defend as parts of the Proteftant Religion : And partly by magnifying verbal differences, and making a noife about them as if they were reaU and fuch as falvation lyeth on : For want of skjll to ftate a controverfie , and difcern a verbal difference from a real. And when a Papift can but fhew their Novices one fuch palpable error in the Writings of a Proteftant ^ What fad work will he make with it ? and ftill harp upon that firing, and perfwade the people that the reft cf our differences are fuch like. And thus many Overdoing weLI-meaning ignorant men both Minifters and people, have unwittingly done as much to harden Papifts, and increafe their numbers, almoft as if Satan had hired them as Spies, to betray the Churches and Caufe of Chrift : Yea, and ii^ one better ftudied in thefe points, fhall go a founder and

N more

.. (178) more fuccefsful way to work, and take thcfe weapons out of the Papifts hands, which fome ignorant Proteftants have given them , the fame mens blind zeal will rage againft them , ( as fome did againfl Chillingwortb, Anthony Wotton, and divers others our greateft Champions ) as if it were not themselves but thefe , that were befriending Popery. So that they, neither can confute them found-ly themfelves, nor will fuffer others, but zealous Proteftants affault Chrifts ableft fervants at their backs, while their faces are towards the adverfa-ries whom they oppofe.

5. But nothing among us ( except Ignorance and wickednefs) increafeth them more, than the fcandal of our numerous , and fome of them abominable Sells. When the people fee many zealous profefTors turn Quakers, or Ranters, or Seekers , or Antinomians, or Socinians, or Familifts-• and fhall fee the more tolerable parties ( Epifco-pal, Presbyterian, Independant, Eraftian, Separa-tifts, and Anabaptifts ) condemning, backbiting, reproaching and making odious ( if not perfecute-ing ) one another, and fhunning ( many of them ) the Communion of one another, as they do the Papifts. This makes them think , that they mull feek fome furer foberer way than any of us have yet found : and the Papifts fee in arid tell them, \_ u Ail thefe are branches broken ott from the u true Vine and withered ^ This it is to depart from " the Catholick Church •, when they are once gone " thence, there is no ftop or confiftence , nil they " crumble all to duft and atomes : You mutt be-!* come Roman Catholicks, or go mad : You fee

"to'

<I79) M to what confufion all others tend : If you once " leave our Church, you will never know where "to fettle : Which Setf: will you be of ? If "an Independant , why not an Anabaptift? u If an Anabaptifl , why not an Antinomian ? " How will you ever know which one of all '< thefe is in the right 3 ? All this is eafily an*-fwered by a man of underftanding ; But to the ignorant Vulgar , it feemeth unanfwera-ble. And alas , how many have given them this fcandal ? Wo be to fome by whom offence cometh.

6. But the Contentions of' our Clergie advantage them more than the divisions of the people : when we are of many interefts , and many parties , and proceed to make each other contemptible and odious : efpecially when we come to hinder each other from the work, of our Mi-niftry. A houfe and Kingdom divided cannot ftand : Chrift tells us that the Devil himfelf is not fo foolifh, as to divide his Kingdom * *All our confent and bed endeavour is too little to fave mens fouls from fin and error : And when one fart is cafi by, and each part by contention hindereth the other : the Papifts have the far eafier work. When one part are not to come within five miles of Cities or Corporations , where Papifts are, and thofe that may come near them are too few , and many too indifpofed , or negligent in refifting them • fo that we are all overdone by their Prkfts in conftant diligence, ( efpecially with the Greater rank^ of men , with whom one part of our Minifters , have almoft as

N 2 little

little inclination as opportunity to converfe, ) no wonder if the Roman work go on.

7. And, alas, how great advantage have they made of cur late calamitous Civil Wars, and manifold fcandalous Rebellions ? Though indeed it was the terrour of their murdering about two bun-dred thoufand in Ireland ( of which fee Bi/bop Jones , Sir John Ttmple , and the Earl of Orery againft Weljh,) which frightened thole that I was acquainted with, out of their peace, and al-mofl out of their wits here in England, yet dead men are not heard on Earth, and their iervice for the King in England ferveth not only for a Cloke for that, but for an advantage againft many that (land in their way. In all Civil Wars, if the Clergy be drawn in to own ftveral Caufes ( efpe-cially if they own an ill fiiufe ) who ever prevailed, Religion furTereth by it . while one part of them are laid by, or hindered by the other.

8. And though God hath greatly obliged this Nation to thankfulnefs, by preferving our Superiors fo much from Popery as he hath done, yet fome of their names are injuriously abufed, to entice men to the Popifh way, as if it had fo much countenance and patronage, that Jnterefl might ia-vite them to ir.

9. And the World is lyable to changes, and weary of holding long in one way : The name of -Antiquity efpecialiy in Religion is venerable with all \ but yet it is Novelty that pleafeth in the Matter. And when Fopery is to m a New way honoured with the name of the old Religion, it is a taking bait. . 10. But

flU)

io. But the grand caiife of all, is, the common peoples Ignorance , as being ungrounded in their own Religion j and their badnefs, who meafure all by carnal Jnterefts, and all our great and manifold fins, by which we have forfeited Gods prefence and his grace, and provoked him to leave us to the fhame and ruine of our own lufts and delufions to undoe our felves. Great fins bring great plagues. And moft men are of their Religion who have the greatefl inter eft in their eftimation and affeBions , or that have gr^ateft advantage on them by con-ft ant neamefsy familiarity , kindred , ktndnefs or power to do them good or hurt in the World.

And Therefore to your quefticn Why fo many of late turn Papjfts, I fhall but now conclbdingly an-fwer you, as T begun with you, concerning the Caufe of your own doubts ; They that have long lived under the light of the holy Gcfpel, and among the mercies which have bleft this Land, and yet have been fincerely no true Chriftians, but ioved their fiefhly lufts and pleafures, and their wealth and worldly honour, more than God, or holinefs, or Heaven, it is no wonder that they eafily change their party, and can be, in ftding y of any Religion who are in fmcerity of none -and if God forfake their underftandings, and give them up to fenfeiefs and unreafonable opinions, wl^o would not live according to the knowledge which they had, nor obey the truth which was clearly opened to them, And fuch hypocrites and perfidious rebels againft Chrift, all Proteftants do confefs themfelves to have been, who turn Papifts, and know what they do : Becaufe they frofefs to go from a ftate of damnation, into a Church <mt of

N 3 which

(iSO

which there is no [ah at ion ^ if the Pcpcs judge * ment' be as powerful in Heaven, as it is at Rcmc.

D. But is there no hope of ending thefe lamentable differences, and removing the fcandal of Infidels hereby ? or at lead: of living together like Neighbours without feeking each others blood or ruine ?

R. i. Yes • when God fhall by his Providence take down the worldly Greatnefs and Advantages of the Papacy, and level the King of Rome with the true Paftors of his Church, and turn the ufurping Monarch of all the World into a true Bi/hop •, that fo worldly Power, honour and wealth, may not be flronger arguments with their party than Heaven and Hell, and Gods commands. Till then their Great twifted Intereft is like to rule them, and keep them in the errours into which it hath involved them. Efpecially while their pretended Infallibility ( againft all fenfe and reafon) is their ltrength, which makeji them uncurable in any errour which they once embrace,

2. But yet I did in the fecond Part of my Key for Catholickj^ long ago fhew the terms on which we may live like neighbours, if not like Chrifti-ans } if their principles would allow their minds, to be but peaceable, and give diffenters leave to live.

And I ftill profefs that might we but fecurc our fives and our poflcrity, I am none of thofe that would have the leaft injury, much lefs cruelty ex-ercifed upon any man for being a Papiffc : If they will live peaceably with me, or but give me leave, I will live peaceably vyirh them. And I doubt not

but

Km)

but as there are fome among them truly fearing God (though corrupt with the errours of ihcir education ) lo there are more that are of kind and civil natures, which their ill opinions cannot make fierce and fanguinary nor overcome. And none of them, I think, ihall be more loving. kind and peaceable to me, ..han I will be to him.

And I confefs 1 have a greater refpeA and honour for thofe whole Anceftors have tranfmitted Popery to them under the name of the True Ca.ho-Jick faith, and who live according to what they know (though perhaps in blind zeal they hate me and iiich others for the Intereft of their way,) than I have for thofe that feemed once Proteftants, and by filthy debauched lives have made it feem needful or convenient for them to turn Papifts, that they may have a feeming Religion and Priefts pardons to quiet or deceive their Consciences ^ or than I have for thofe Papifts who live in drunken-nefs, Iuft and common lying and prophane fwear-ing, while yet they feem to be Religious and regardful of God and their fouls • or than I have for thofe Priefts who befriend fuch mens wick-ednefs for the increafe and intereft of their Church.

Yea, I truly profefs that if I know a truly Godly confcionable charitable Papift, I muft, I will love and honour him far more than an ungodly, unconfcionable, uncharitable Proteftant. And as far as I can difcern, both Minifters and private Chri-ftians (but efpecially Minifters ) whom I moft converfe with, are of the fame mind.

Z>. But is there no way poffible to bring them fairly off, in this grofs bufinefs of Tranfubftantia-

N 4 tion.

tion, without putting them upon the difclaiming of the Popes and General Councils Infallibility ?

K. I am not bound to devife accommodations to ftrengthen them in their other errours, if I could. But yet I would cure any errour in any, !hough they intend their own cure to an evil end. I cannot be perfwaded but their underftanding iron are forry at the heart that the Latcrane Council hath drawn them into fuch a fnare, by making Tranfubftamiarion an Article of their faith • and that they are very angry at them, and wifh that it had never been done : but being done they mud take on them to believe it, left they pull down with their foundation all their fabrick. I doubt not but they are troubled and afhamed to read the Schoolmen*; difputes of Tranfubftantiation, expofing Chriftanity to the Infidels fcorn, which this Council hath mod occafioned. I know not how to bring rhem off, unlefs they will hearken to what Dr. Taylor in liis Diflwaiive from Popery, and Dr. Hcylw> and Dr. Fierfon and Dr. Gaining in rhe Difpuce, have faid againfl the Validity of that Later Ant Council (could they but fpare the Canon for depoflng Temporal Lords, and difpof-ieifing them of their Dominions, and abfolving all their Papifts fubjefts from their Oaths of Allegiance and exterminating the reft ^ Yea it would be more ferviceable to them at laft with Princes, to retract that alfo, than to keep it.) Their belt way is to take the help of thefe pretences, and condemn the contrary Reafons of Mr. Tcrret and his iellow Difputanr againfl the forefaid Doctors,

and

and expunge that Council out of Binn'ms, Snrim and the reft who number it with the approved Councils ; and becaufe Mattb. Tar is and others fay that fome at the Council thought the Canons bur-denfom, and they were brought in by the Pope, and haftily read, esrc* therefore fay, that They were not pa/Ted at leaft Conciliariter, which you know is a word that ferveth their turn againft another Council which they diflike.

D. But what fhall they do with following Councils, efpecially that at Trent y which fay the fame?

R. The beft fhifts that I know are, i. To do as they do about the condemning of Pope Honori-rius as a Heretick. They fay that a General Council and Pope too may err in a matter of fad: 5 and fo they did in judging of Homrius his meaning : So they may fay, that the Council of Trent did decree this as an Article of faith, only becaufe they thought that the Church fo held it : which was becaufe they thought that the General approved Council of Laterane had fo decreed it : But now rinding that it was not fo decreed there , the error in matter of fad ceaf-ing , which was the fuppoficion , the doctrinal error proveth to be no Article of faith, or Conci-liariter dccrctum*

2* Or if this will not do , they are beft yet ftretch the words of Rome and Trent , to a more tolerable figniflcation , and fay, That it is not the ceafing of the fubftance of Bread and Wine which is meant ; but the changing it into a Relative new form : And fo, as the Whole fnbftance

'f

of a man is changed from leing a meer Common man , into a King , a Btjhop , a Doclor y without any ceflation of his Humanity y but only quia forma ultima denominat r he is not any more to be called meerly A Man , but A King y A Bijhep , &c. Or, as the whole fubftance of a piece ol Gold is changed into Currant Coin by the Kings Stamp, &c. So the whole fubflance of Bread is turned into the ( Reprefentative ) Body of Chrtfl , and the whole fubflance of Wine into his ( Reprefentative ) blood 7 which change they calI Tranfubfiantiation.

Bur why (hould I give counfel to men that wil] not thank me for it, and that obftinately refufe much better ?

JD. But why fpeak you nothing of their denying-the people the Cqp ? I thought you would principally have faftned on that;

R. Becaufe it is no part of this prefent Con-troverfie, which I was firft to handle, though it concern the fame Sacrament : But it is fuch an inftance , as ferveth to tell thofe of the world that will underftand, what horrid unreafonable , audacious arrogance and Vfurpation and Treafon againfi God and the true Head of the Church , this pretended Monarch of the world , and his pretended Catholick Church ( the Popifh SeA ) arc guilty of : confidering,

1. That it is as ejfential a part of the Sacra-crament as the Bread is : For Chrifl hath made no difference.

2. It hath the fame Initiation and exprefs Command : He that faid, £ Take , Eat J faid alfo

[ Drink,

[ "Drinks ye all of this : ] He hath fkid, [ Do this in remembrance of we ~\ of One as well as of the Other.

3 Therefore to take away an Bjjential fart, is to take away the Sacrament, and make it another thing. As it is not a humane body that hath not both Head and Heart: So here.

4. Therefore by the fame authority they might have continued the £)//>, and taken away the Bread ^ or have taken away both.

5. And on the fame reafon they might have taken away Baptifm, and all Chrifts pofitive Inftituti-ons. And for ought I know the Miniftry it felf as inftituted.

6. But then Cerfons queflion, de auferahilitate Tap* would be next to be debated : For were he of Chrifts own Jnftitntion ( as he is not ) it is 110 more than the Cup in the Lords Supper. Could he but prove an Inftitution of his Papacy as evidently , who would not be his Subjed ? If you fay, But who fliould take him down , if it might be done ? I anfwer, Kings in their own Kingdoms, and his own General Councils. The Kings- of France, Spain, &c. may eafily prove , that they have more power to caft out the Pope , than he hath to call: out half Chrifts Sacrament : And they may better forbid their own Subjects to obey a forreign <itf)$per, than he can forbid all the world to ojHf Chrifl^**

7.^Wf^Dr all thi$j|Wre wit of man can hardly dfyfe What Reafon they have to do it ? What point of their Religion ? What Intereft of their own did engage them to it ? Unlefs it be their * Intereft

(158)

Intereft to (hew that they are Ajove Chrift and the Scripture , I do not yet difcern their *eafon.

8. And yet they have, with Refolntion and ob-flinacy, perfifted herein divers hundreds of years, and denyed the requefts of Emperours, Nobles, and great part of feveral Kingdoms in this point.

This and the leaving out the fecond Commandment , feem to be of purpofe to (hew that they are above the Maker of the Ten Commandments and of the Gofpeh How long Lord (hall Tyranny opprefs the Nations of the Earth, and the Honour and Domination and Wills of Rebels, prevail to tread down Truth and Godlinefs, and keep the notice of thy falvation from the fmful mifera-ble world • whileft yet we daily pray by thy Command , that Thy Name way be Hallowed , Thy Kingdome come, and Thy Will be done ^ on Earth as it is done in Heaven ?

Whether the Pope be the Antichrift meant in the Scripture ( by that name ) or not, you fee that my paifing it by doth (hew my cauteioufnefs in refolving ( as Zanchy and others before me have done ), becaufe I am confeffedly fo far un-ftudyed or ignorant of the fenfe of the Revelations and fome other Scripture Prophecies , as that I muft leave fuch cafes to fuch as Bifhop Downtime and others that have deeper infight into them : Every man (hould be bed at that which he hath moft (ludyed. But I mud: needs fay, that though T take it to be indifpenfible duty, to keep up all due charity to all profefled Ghriftiarrs- fuch inftances, as thefe which I have here opened do ut-

• terjy

(is?;

terly difable me from confuting that man, who fhall aflert that this pretended Vicar of Chrift, and King or Monarch of the world, ( and fo King of Kings, and Lord of Lords ) is an abominable Ufurper, and infolent Tray tor , againli God, and the true King and Head of the Univerfal Church* How long will Princes and Prelates, Learned and Unlearned be deluded by him , or fear Power ? And when (riall he be reftrained from hindering Chrifts Gofpel, and the Peace and Concord of the Chriftian world ?

FI^CIS,

The Reader is hereby advertifed, That the Firft Part of the l\ey for Catholicks, being Re-printed and to be Bound with this (as the Chief Part of the Book,) thofe that have that Part already, may have this Bound alone.

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